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[antoninus9]

Hi,

I'm new to JRiver MC and just downloaded the latest version to try it. I have a SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro and output everything via TOSLINK to my DAC.

I set MC to use Creative ASIO SPDIF and then tried Creative WASAPI. I then tried all the other settings. The sound never changes. It's dull and lifeless compared to other popular media players when it should be as good or better.

It's as if MC isn't changing its output method when I select a different option.

I'm running Windows 8.1, if that matters.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks

[JimH]

That could just be volume.  Did you try the other volume options?  You could read about R128 volume leveling on this board.

[antoninus9]

It's definitely not a volume issue. The sound from MC is similar to a highly compressed MP3. I am playing FLAC files.

I have 3 other media players loaded and all are very similar in sound quality. Windows Media Player 12 is one of them.

I have no doubt that MC can work as well or better, but something is wrong in the setup.

[6233638]

Using ASIO or WASAPI Exclusive should be bypassing any kind of processing/EQ that is being applied to the card.
If you are using these features with other players, that might explain the difference that you're hearing.

[kstuart]

What DAC ?

[Mike48]

It's definitely not a volume issue. The sound from MC is similar to a highly compressed MP3. I am playing FLAC files.

MC has several volume modes. The wrong one could cause such a problem. Go to the Options page and search for Volume. Choose "Internal Volume" and see if it helps. Also make sure the output format is not reducing bitrate. Right click the zone name, and look at DSP Studio... and Playback Options....

You are right when you say it should sound as good as anything. When set up well for your system, it does.

[antoninus9]

I have checked the volume modes and disabled all DSP functions. No change. I also switched from TOSLINK to HDMI (no difference). I switched to a different soundcard (no difference).

Digging a little deeper I created a pink noise file and played it back through three different popular media players. The JRiver had a significant high frequency roll-off curve. This is the source of the dull lifeless sound I'm hearing.

What could be causing this, especially with WASAPI? I have the evaluation version of JRiver. Is this version restricted or limited in some way?

I really like the GUI and features of MC but I can't use it if it's going to roll off the high frequencies.

Thank you for all the help and input.

[mwillems]

Digging a little deeper I created a pink noise file and played it back through three different popular media players. The JRiver had a significant high frequency roll-off curve. This is the source of the dull lifeless sound I'm hearing.

Could you post a screen cap of your measurements? I've never seen this kind of roll off in JRiver, and I'm curious what could be causing it (seeing the shape of the roll off would help diagnose what may be causing it).  

Additionally, as 6233638 noted above, do you have any kind of DSP or signal shaping enabled in the Creative control panel?  WASAPI may be bypassing the creative control panel's DSP, while other software may not be, which may be leading to the difference you're hearing.

[antoninus9]

mwillems,

You nailed it. It was how JRiver implements WASAPI.  I disabled all soundcard enhancements in Windows audio control panel and MC is working perfectly.

Thank you for your assistance. It is much appreciated.

Thank you to everyone for helping me work through all the possibilities.

[mwillems]

mwillems,

You nailed it. It was how JRiver implements WASAPI.  I disabled all soundcard enhancements in Windows audio control panel and MC is working perfectly.

Thank you for your assistance. It is much appreciated.

Thank you to everyone for helping me work through all the possibilities.

Glad we got it sorted out! 

Off topic: I just noticed your profile pic: do you have a pair of Everests or is your avatar aspirational?  I love the way they look, and can only imagine how good they sound 

[mojave]

I have the X-Fi Elite Pro. I prefer to use ASIO with Audio Creation mode. In Audio Creation mode you need to check Enable Bit Matched Playback for ASIO to automatically change sample rate and to bypass all processing.

[antoninus9]

Thanks Mojave. At the moment I've switched to the built-in AMD sound system through HDMI, but I'll revisit the Creative card over the weekend.

I came across another setting under the JRiver WASAPI entitled "Bitdepth". It was set to "24 in a 32 bit package". I changed this to 16 to match the FLAC files. The sound improved further. What is the purpose of 24 bit in a 32 bit package?

 

[antoninus9]

mwillems,

I've had the opportunity to either own, or have on loan, almost everything JBL has made over the last 30 years, including the Everest. I keep a DX-1 crossover and cards for most models. The Everest is too big for my listening room, as are the 250tis. My daily driver is a pair of XPL-200s with a custom DX-1 network. There really isn't any speaker that I dream of owning because I've had the opportunity to use so many over the years. None of them were perfect and everything is a compromise. I guess my favorites would be the XPL200 and the B&W 801 Series II, but that choice is as much related to my listening room as it is entirely subjective. There are so many good speakers these days at various price points that there's pretty much something to meet the needs of everyone.

[mwillems]

Thanks Mojave. At the moment I've switched to the built-in AMD sound system through HDMI, but I'll revisit the Creative card over the weekend.

I came across another setting under the JRiver WASAPI entitled "Bitdepth". It was set to "24 in a 32 bit package". I changed this to 16 to match the FLAC files. The sound improved further. What is the purpose of 24 bit in a 32 bit package?

The bitdepth output settings shouldn't ordinarily affect audio quality.  Outputting a 16-bit file as 24-bit effectively just adds zeroes at the bottom of the dynamic range (below -96dBFS), which should have no effect on sound in most circumstances.  If you use software volume controls, outputting 16-bit files as 24-bit is actually preferable because the extra "space" at the bottom allows a digital audio control to attenuate the signal a fair ways without having to discard any information.  

The 24-bit in a 32-bit package option is designed for compatibility with certain DACs that only actually use 24-bits of input, but "expect" a 32-bit input.  JRiver recommends setting the output bitdepth to "automatic" as it will detect the highest bitdepth supported by your DAC and will output at that bitdepth.  At worst it's harmless, and it may improve audio quality when using digital volume control.

It sounds like you've heard quite a few very nice speakers. I haven't heard most of the systems you mentioned, but I'm a big fan of horn-loaded midranges, so I hope to sit down with a pair of Everests some day  

[antoninus9]

JBL just introduced a bunch of new horns. http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Category/8

You may like some of the new models too.

If you like horns try to visit Harman labs, or an audio shop that has some JBL Hartsfields hooked up to some McIntosh MC240 amps. In my opinion this is where true hi-fi began. The system still sounds amazing, even when compared to modern equipment.

[antoninus9]

Switched back to the Creative and enabled bit-matched playback. I like this setting best of all. Thanks for pointing this option out to me.  

Mojave, either you or I am using an older Creative driver. My menu looks nothing like the one you posted. I'm using X-Fi Support Pack 2.5, which supposedly provides an update to the older software. If you know of something more recent please let me know. I tried the Pax Audio custom drivers and didn't like them. The tweaks made to the drivers must have been done for small PC speakers.

Thanks again for your input.

[6233638]

I came across another setting under the JRiver WASAPI entitled "Bitdepth". It was set to "24 in a 32 bit package". I changed this to 16 to match the FLAC files. The sound improved further. What is the purpose of 24 bit in a 32 bit package?

Always use the highest bit-depth that your hardware supports, don't match it to the files.
Set Media Center to automatic and it should select the highest bit-depth your hardware supports.