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[JimH]

Seems we're getting some grumbling about not paying attention to certain people's problems.  I'm going to go through the bug thread and remove them now.  Comments like "hey developers don't you ever try your software" don't help.

If you post a problem, we do read it.  What happens next is this:

If we can reproduce it, we fix it.

We look for major problems first and fix those first.  Minor problems and irritations don't get a lower priority.

If we can't reproduce it, it goes into the back recesses of memory.  Maybe it's a problem, maybe it isn't.  If we hear from multiple people, the priority of the problem increases, and we look harder for it.

Remember this.  There are a lot of different versions of the operating systems floating around.  These all have different hardware and drivers.  NOT ALL BUGS ARE OURS.

At this stage, if we reported back to you on every problem you raise, we would never fix anything.

Patience, please.

[JimH]

[Nikolay's earlier post, moved from the bug thread]

Gentlemen,

Don't get upset when we don't fix bugs you report.

Some of them we can't reproduce = can't fix
Some of them we just miss = please report again
Some of them we know about but did not have time to fix = will be fixed later

We are trying not to implement any new features at this stage of MJ 8.0 development ( sometimes it's really hard ), We are trying fix all the bug you report before release.

And the TV Tuner feature gets in the way, every time I test MJ (especially when Montel Williams is on )

Thanks for all your help,
Send all the bugs you catch this way.

Nikolay Sokratov
CTO, JRiver, Inc.

[dwex]

Jim, you mis-interpret my response. It's not flamage. And, in fact, it's trying to reduce the amount of reports.

- If you're not gonna fix something, then just say "we're not gonna fix that". Without saying anything, we have no alternative but to re-report the bug. Hence needless noise to wade through that could have been avoided simply by saying "doesn't make it over the bug bar".
- If you can't reproduce something, then telling us this lets us work on getting better failcases. Especially if you give us guidance in that process. Without saying "can't reproduce", we can't tell the difference between that an a missed report.

I've been developing software solutions, commercial and open source, for 15|PLS| years. I know about running beta programs. I know about participating in beta programs. Bug reports that appear to go into a black hole are the quickest way to annoy your testing audience.

I'm trying to be as productive as possible, by producing the most useful data possible while reducing the amount of repetitive unnecessary fluff.

Squashing my responses is low class, however. Especially when it didn't even approximate flamage, and actually contained requests for ways to better support you.

--dwex

[JimH]

dwex

> - If you're not gonna fix something, then just say "we're not gonna fix that". Without saying anything, we have no alternative but to re-report the bug. Hence needless noise to wade through that could have been avoided simply by saying "doesn't make it over the bug bar".

dwex, "we're not gonna fix that".  The process is working (for us).  In many cases, it isn't possible to say "we're not gonna fix that" because we don't know whether it is a problem or not.  Information is pouring in all the time and we are constantly re-evaluating it.

If the process is unsatisfactory, your best option may be not to participate.  (I am not suggesting that you should quit, but it is a possibility if the process is too messy).

> - If you can't reproduce something, then telling us this lets us work on getting better failcases. Especially if you give us guidance in that process. Without saying "can't reproduce", we can't tell the difference between that and a missed report.

I don't think we're missing too many.  It does happen though.

> I've been developing software solutions, commercial and open source, for 15|PLS| years. I know about running beta programs. I know about participating in beta programs. Bug reports that appear to go into a black hole are the quickest way to annoy your testing audience.

Well, ditto the experience here.  We just don't agree.  I think we also may be moving faster than software businesses have in the past.  I'm sure there is a cost to that.

> Squashing my responses is low class, however. Especially when it didn't even approximate flamage, and actually contained requests for ways to better support you.

Yours, in lower class,

JimH

[KingSparta]

I did not complain, I'm looking straight ahead, Everything is wonderfull

Is [former member] Banned Again?

[BeetleX]

how about this:

there could be an oficial bug-list for reference
everyone can watch
1. if his reported bug is realized
2. state of the bug (not reproducable/ scheduled for fixing/ same but low priority/ seems to be fixed)
3. an ID makes it easier to reference certain issues
4. a few topics/groups like "general", "devices", "visual" brings the overview needed

just my 0.02

[ZRocker]

KingS,

I didn't complain either, but got pruned...I feel much better now with no arms!!

[JimH]

Z and King,
I tried to reduce the thread to bugs only.  It makes it easier to read.

Z,
Please report the bugs you know about.

[KingSparta]

Really i'm releaving some stress month end close coming up, Busy Time Of year

The 3 P's

Profit, Profit, Profit

[ZRocker]

JimH,

I'm still on vacation from bug reporting...dealing with the bugs differently these dayz (ie, MJ crash = just restart MJ and go on; if I don't like the way a feature is working/not working, just shake my head and go on).

[JimH]

Z,
OK.  Understood.  You've done more than your share.  Thanks.

[KingSparta]

[former member]

I think he may have been telling you that he was not going to change it.

And Or

To Give You Something To Do.

[KingSparta]

Well I think what J river has here is better than Real and Music Match.

when in the beta testing of both of them (i was a beta tester for both at one point), you basically reported, they never told you anything about it, and you could not see what others have reported.

So I think this system is better than nothing, and you can't higher someone to take care of an html list of bugs just to make the beta testers feel better. It does not make good business sense to me.

[KingSparta]

don't know anything about coding.

by the way, I deleted all the source for mp3 tag grabber, the last compiled version is on my web site.

I got tired playing with it.

[Michael Horton]

you're kidding--after all that work?

[JimH]

What?  What?  You deleted the source?  Say it isn't so.  We were about to talk to you about building a plugin for MJ using the Interface Plugin architecture.

[KingSparta]

I was just playing with all that CDDB stuff.

I need some better Active-X tools, I may buy some in a few months not sure, i will be kind of busy for the next few months.

I was suprized when CDDB put the CDDB gold stamp on it, I thought it was funny.

they liked it...