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[chriswale]

Hey guys..

I'm starting to use JRiver Media Center 19 with RAW image files and Photoshop Camera RAW editor.
JRiver MC19 creates previews and thumbnails of the RAW files - However, when I make adjustments to the RAW images in Camera RAW (i.e. white balance, contrast, etc) - the previews and thumbnails are not updated to reflect the adjustments - even if I clear the RAW cache and restart. 

Is there any way to have JRiver update the RAW preview files??

I've tested this in Adobe Bridge and once adjustements have been made to the RAW files, the thumbnails and previews are in fact updated.
I'd really like for this to function in JRiver?

Thanks!

Regards
Chris

[akira54]

I believe this is "normal". I have the same issue with DNG files edited with Lightroom. The adjustments to the images are made non-invasively and since they are Photoshop/LR specific MC cannot/does not read them. I wish it would ...

[Hendrik]

If you delete the file from MC, and then re-import it into the MC database, do you get an updated preview then?
That would tell us if it just doesn't invalidate the thumbnail, or if akira54 is right and the information is not available.

[chriswale]

Tested again.

1) Imported RAW files
2) Edited RAW files in Camera RAW (Adobe Photoshop) - made adjustments: white balance correction
3) Thumbnails were not updated
4) Removed files from Library
5) Cleared RAW cache
6) Restarted JRiver MC19
7) Ran auto import
RAW files were imported again - but still not showing adjustments that were made.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that MC19 is reading the adjustments from the side car file that has been created by Adobe Camera RAW.
Perhaps I will have to use Adobe Bridge for sorting and working with my image RAW files.
Akira54 - Adobe Lightroom does refresh thumbnails to show adjustments that have been made to RAW files.

Hopefully the JRiver team will find a way to get this working in JRiver MC?

[chriswale]

Here is a preview of what the the RAW files look like in JRiver Media Center 19 and Adobe Bridge - the RAW images (thumbnails) in these screenshots have all been adjusted in Adobe Camera RAW to correct the white balance. 


RAW image previews (from Cache) in MC19 - this is after the RAW files have been adjusted in Adobe Camera RAW:
Note: for the purpose of this demostration, I took photographs of the same subject, but with different light settings - which required a color correction white balance adjustment before the images could be viewed.
Unforunately MC19 does not update the thumbnails and images previews to match the adjustment that was made to the images - as you will see the color balance is not consistent for the photos.

The color palette that you see in the photographs is the Datacolor SpyderCheckr and SpyderCube - these are color correction tools for photography.





RAW image previews (from Cache) in Abobe Bridge - this is after the RAW files have been adjusted in Adobe Camera RAW
Adobe Bridge does update the thumbnails and images previews to match the adjustment that was made to the images.




RAW images folder - as you will see, Adobe Camera RAW editor creates an XMP file once the images have been edited.
It would be great if MC19 could interpret these xmp files!  But I am guessing this will be a challenge for the MC19 development team.




If anyone is interested in learning more about RAW file photography and the benefits, here are some videos that I think explain the concept quite well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsi71MEFPB8 - Introduction to RAW photography
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0j8QMmglvw - Benefits of RAW photographs - JPEG vs. RAW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weDIeSeRkZo - Using Camera RAW (lynda.com course chapter) - video shows how an image is adjusted and then the image preview is updated in Bridge after editing

JRiver MC19 vs. Adobe Bridge
I prefer using JRiver MC19 for organising my photos - but I need to have the RAW image previews update if the RAW images are adjusted.  For now, I will have to continue to use Bridge for managing my RAW photos.  I've got nothing against Bridge, but I would prefer to just use MC19 instead of having to rely on both programs.

There are also other RAW photo management tools available (mentioned in the first video above).

[chriswale]

@Akira54 > after you mentioned DNG, I did some research and I've learnt that it is, in fact, better to convert my RAW images from CR2 to DNG.  
Here is a video that convinced me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN8fH_79irU

DNG files can contain a JPEG preview of the image (embedded in the DNG).  
You can also update these JPEG images previews in lightroom after you have made modifications...



You will want to import your DNG files in MC19 after you have made modifications to the RAW image and saved the JPEG image preview.
It seems that MC19 sees the JPEG image preview once the file is imported >>  but unfortunately MC19 does not update the thumbnail/image preview if you change the RAW image in the future (even if you update the JPEG image preview in the DNG)>>

See this post for more information:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87943.0

[Hendrik]

I may have fixed the refreshing of the preview for an upcoming build:
Fixed: The RAW image decoding cache is refreshed if a RAW image has external changes or "Update Library (from tags)" is used.

As noted, you can force a refresh by using Library Tools -> Update Library (from tags), or if you use auto-import it'll refresh if you have "Update for external changes" set.
My test image selection was rather limited since I do not have such a camera, so please test once the build is available!

[chriswale]

Since your last messages, I've had the chance to test RAW DNG images in JRiver once again and I've found that the image thumbnails are not updating for any changes made to the RAW files in Camera RAW editing software. See images below.  I am using JRiver and Bridge and Camera Raw.  Once the image has been edited in Camera RAW the thumbnail image is updated in Bridge, but not in JRiver.  

Also, why would we need a cache for DNG RAW images when the DNG images have already got an embedded JPEG image preview??

I'd like to get this working in JRiver, otherwise I'm going to have to resort to using Adobe Bridge or Lightroom for my photo library

Here is a series of images that shows the issue:

The images are imported into JRiver:




I use Adobe Bridge to edit the photos in Abobe Camera RAW:






The DNG RAW image has been edited in Camera RAW and the JPEG image preview updated, this also updates the DNG thumbnail in Adobe Bridge:




Going back to the JRiver Library:



The thumbnail in JRiver hasn't automatically updated, so I manually Update Library from tags:



The thumbnail is updated, but does not show the updated edited DNG RAW image - it shows the original





Here is a screenshot of the JRiver Image Cache folder:



Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I really would like to be able to view my photo collection in JRiver Media Center include the DNG RAW images.

Surely JRiver Media Center should just be able to read the DNG image preview and save disk space - this also eliminates the need for a cache of images to be generated.

[6233638]

Is your software updating the embedded preview JPEG, or simply updating its own thumbnail?
If you have Bridge/Lightroom, I would probably stick to using them, since they are specialized tools designed for handling raw images.

@Akira54 > after you mentioned DNG, I did some research and I've learnt that it is, in fact, better to convert my RAW images from CR2 to DNG. 

If your camera has the option to shoot DNG, use it. I would not convert manufacturer-specific raw files to DNG, since they are reverse-engineered.

[chriswale]

Thanks for the response..

DNG RAW images include a full size JPEG image preview embedded within the DNG file.
When I edit the DNG image in a RAW editor the JPEG image preview is updated.
But JRiver Media Center is not using this embedded JPEG image from the DNG file, instead JRiver is making a new cached image preview (unnecessary waste of space).

The bottom line for me is this...
Regardless of which RAW editing software I use, I would still like JRiver Media Center to function as my image/photo library and display my RAW images correctly.
All I am asking is the ability to see updated DNG JPEG image previews in JRiver.

It would be nice to have a setting in JRiver to set it to "use embedded preview JPEG image for DNG files".
@ JRiver developers: Have a look at this related links:
http://digital-photography-school.com/make-lightroom-faster-by-using-dng/


DNG VS original RAW format:

I would prefer not make this thread about debating the topic of converting RAW images to DNG, that would be a completely different thread.
If you would like to explore the advantages of converting RAW images to DNG you can watch numerous videos on YouTube from professional photographers in the industry:
For example, this one from Chris Orwig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08J2TVV3QDA

[6233638]

Well for one thing, you can disable the raw cache in Media Center if you want.
 
I just tested using Lightroom 5.5 and it does not write updated previews to DNG files unless you manually update them via Photo > Update DNG Preview & Metadata
 
You can use ExifTool to verify this with: exiftool -b -PreviewImage -w _preview.jpg <YOURFILE>
Note: I would run this on a copy of the file, not your original.
 
 
Media Center does not seem to use the embedded thumbnails though - it's decoding the image itself.
I forget what it is using for conversion now, but it does not read Adobe's embedded data and apply that processing. (not that it would give you the same results anyway - you would need to be using their proprietary Camera RAW engine)
 
An option to decode raw previews only, instead of the full size image might be useful I suppose, though the preview images embedded in DNG files don't seem to be very high quality.