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Author Topic: Improve sample rate but ...  (Read 4021 times)

mvilla

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Improve sample rate but ...
« on: June 07, 2014, 10:51:06 am »

Hi All,

What kind of options I need to set in order that:

- files with bitrate less or equal to 1411 --> are encoded to 2xDSD in DoP format
- files DSD native --> remain DSD native (1xDSD , 2x DSD, ...)
- all remaining files --> in output, no change to sample rates

Basically, I want to reproduce HD files as they are in input, while trying to "improve" all the rest.

Many thanks for your help.
Massimo
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6233638

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2014, 11:13:35 am »

You would have to use Zone Switch with three zones configured for this.
I would not use bit-rate to control this, but rules based on bit-depth, sample rate, and file type.
 
Zone 1 - DSD Encoding: [Sample Rate]=<=44100
Zone 2 - High Res Audio: [Sample Rate]=>44100 [Bit Depth]=>=16
Zone 3 - DSD Bitstreaming: [File Type]=[dff],[dsf],[sacd]
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mvilla

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2014, 03:14:08 pm »

You would have to use Zone Switch with three zones configured for this.
I would not use bit-rate to control this, but rules based on bit-depth, sample rate, and file type.
 
Zone 1 - DSD Encoding: [Sample Rate]=<=44100
Zone 2 - High Res Audio: [Sample Rate]=>44100 [Bit Depth]=>=16
Zone 3 - DSD Bitstreaming: [File Type]=[dff],[dsf],[sacd]

Thank you for your advice. I've never used Zone Switch and am going to learn how it works :-)
Why do you say you would not use bitstreaming ? Is there a loss of quality ?
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mvilla

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2014, 08:31:20 am »

Thank you for your advice. I've never used Zone Switch and am going to learn how it works :-)
Why do you say you would not use bitstreaming ? Is there a loss of quality ?


Hi, I've followed your advice and it works but partially. In a playlist, it seems that if I enter a first zone, it keeps the same zone for the following files ... Any mistake by me or is it normal ?
Massimo
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mvilla

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 03:52:27 am »

Hi, I've followed your advice and it works but partially. In a playlist, it seems that if I enter a first zone, it keeps the same zone for the following files ... Any mistake by me or is it normal ?
Massimo

Quick update from my tests.

The rules I've set up for ZoneSwitch are working fine. If I manually skip from a track to another one, I have what I expect:

> cd (44100k) files are converted into 2DSD
> high resolution files remain as they are

The issue is when I use a playlist. It seems Zoneswitch works only for the first file that you play: it assigns the right zone and then all following files, which are not compliant with that initial zone, are skipped !

Why ?
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mwillems

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 06:58:31 am »

Quick update from my tests.

The rules I've set up for ZoneSwitch are working fine. If I manually skip from a track to another one, I have what I expect:

> cd (44100k) files are converted into 2DSD
> high resolution files remain as they are

The issue is when I use a playlist. It seems Zoneswitch works only for the first file that you play: it assigns the right zone and then all following files, which are not compliant with that initial zone, are skipped !

Why ?


Zoneswitch does not currently switch within a playlist.  It selects the correct zone for the initial file.  Because each zone has it's own "playing now" list, it would be harder to route the files within a given playlist (the playlist would be scattered across multiple zones so you wouldn't be able to see the whole playlist in any one "playing now" list). Not switching within playlists is a limitation of the way zoneswitch works at the moment. 

Zoneswitch works great for almost all other applications (i.e. listening to albums, etc.), it just doesn't switch within mixed format playlists at the moment.
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mvilla

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 04:11:50 pm »

Zoneswitch does not currently switch within a playlist.  It selects the correct zone for the initial file.
Zoneswitch works great for almost all other applications (i.e. listening to albums, etc.), it just doesn't switch within mixed format playlists at the moment.

I've got it. Thanks for your explanation.

If not easy to use the Zoneswitch feature then, may I ask JRiver team to offer DSD encoding as option at sample rate level ? I mean in Option>Output Format panel, offer encoding values within the list of possible values in the sample rate input -> output change ?

Thanks for your answer.
Massimo

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6233638

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 04:20:01 pm »

It does seem that moving DSD Encoding and DSD Bitstreaming into the selection, and adding DSD64fs/128fs/256fs to the list would make things easier to configure without relying on Zone Switch.
 
Having an option to only bitstream stereo DSD and not multichannel DSD is another thing that comes up quite frequently.
 
I'm not sure what the best way to configure that would be though, or how things work internally - it might appear to be a "simple" change, but may not be.
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mvilla

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 12:12:53 pm »

It does seem that moving DSD Encoding and DSD Bitstreaming into the selection, and adding DSD64fs/128fs/256fs to the list would make things easier to configure without relying on Zone Switch.
 
Having an option to only bitstream stereo DSD and not multichannel DSD is another thing that comes up quite frequently.
 
I'm not sure what the best way to configure that would be though, or how things work internally - it might appear to be a "simple" change, but may not be.

Question to Matt [btw, very happy to read you again here :-)] : Is it something you can consider as an option in the next releases ?

Thanks in advance for your time
Massimo

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Matt

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 12:21:39 pm »

Question to Matt [btw, very happy to read you again here :-)] : Is it something you can consider as an option in the next releases ?

So you want the separation between stereo and multichannel or the separation of sample rates?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

mvilla

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 01:01:26 pm »

So you want the separation between stereo and multichannel or the separation of sample rates?

Hi Matt,
my request was related to sample rates :

- files with bitrate less or equal to 1411 --> are encoded to 2xDSD in DoP format
- files DSD native --> remain DSD native (1xDSD , 2x DSD, ...)
- all remaining files --> in output, no change to sample rates

Basically, I want to reproduce HD files as they are in input, while trying to "improve" all the rest.
Massimo
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Hendrik

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 02:46:14 pm »

Such a request keeps coming up in various places, and personally I don't like the suggested "solution" of moving the encoding options into the sample rate settings.
It only hits one specific use-case, and feels like a kludge (specifically, it still leaves the stereo vs. multi-channel topic open)

What I could envision here is a concept of "Sub-Zones", that work like zones with each their invidual configuration, but share the same playlist/zone, and as such can work on a per-file basis instead of the zones we have right now. But of course that requires quite a bit more development time.
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~ nevcairiel
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6233638

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Re: Improve sample rate but ...
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 05:03:29 pm »

What I could envision here is a concept of "Sub-Zones", that work like zones with each their invidual configuration, but share the same playlist/zone, and as such can work on a per-file basis instead of the zones we have right now. But of course that requires quite a bit more development time.
Yes, I have requested that before - that would significantly improve how zones work.
 
That way you can have say three separate zones assigned to a device (actually, they wouldn't have to be the same device) which all share the same playlist, but handle different types of audio separately.
E.g. Encode 44.1kHz PCM to DSD, bitstream stereo DSD files, convert multichannel DSD files to 176.4kHz PCM etc.
 
This would also address issues with mixed playlists where certain tracks belong in different zones.
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