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Author Topic: Metrication  (Read 29970 times)

Matt

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Metrication
« on: August 04, 2014, 02:15:26 pm »

Hello!
Firstly big thanks to developers and contributors of JRiver Media center, really excellent software :)

My feature request is not hugely important deal breaker but would simplify things a lot for me, and maybe to others in same situation: DSP-studio, room correction, speaker distances in metric units.

Best regards,
Ari

Next build:
Changed: DSP Studio > Room Correction uses metric symbols when running in a non-English language.
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tyler69

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Metrication
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 02:30:44 pm »

Next build:
Changed: DSP Studio > Room Correction uses metric symbols when running in a non-English language.

Would it be possible to implement the metric symbols independent from the language? I for example have an english interface, but would like to use metric symbols.
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Matt

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Metrication
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2014, 02:55:10 pm »

Would it be possible to implement the metric symbols independent from the language? I for example have an english interface, but would like to use metric symbols.

Not short term.  I don't want to put another place on the UI for such a choice.
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JimH

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Metrication
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2014, 02:56:53 pm »

Where do you live?  I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.
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Mr ChriZ

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Metrication
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 02:58:26 pm »

Where do you live?  I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.

England (and the rest of the UK) does for the most part....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

stevemac

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Metrication
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2014, 03:24:51 pm »

Quote
I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.

Australia and New Zealand both use the metric system

Having an independent setting  would be great

thanks,

Steve
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astromo

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Metrication
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2014, 03:31:08 pm »

England (and the rest of the UK) does for the most part....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom
England (and the rest of the UK) does for the most part....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

... and the rest of the World:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system
Quote
The metric system has been officially sanctioned for use in the United States since 1866, but it remains the only industrialised country that has not adopted the metric system as its official system of measurement.

... but fortunately in the UK you can still get beer in a pub by the pint:
Quote
Although the United Kingdom uses the metric system for most official purposes, the use of the imperial system of measure, particularly among the public, is widespread, and is legally mandated in various cases.
Oh, and that's a man sized pint. The UK version is about 20% bigger than the US specimen.

However, if it's an issue of feet vs metres then the conversion is not that difficult.
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csimon

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Metrication
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 03:53:14 pm »

It's a complete mixture in the UK. Road signs are still in miles. Petrol (gas) is sold in litres. Official temperatures are measured in Celsius. In terms of feet/metres, I think most people are like me - we chop and change and work with whatever we're most comfortable with in the context, and most people can work in Fahrenheit for temperature too.  For example, I'm more likely to think of someone's height in feet and inches and I wouldn't have a clue what it is in metres.  Within the hgome, I'm more likely to think that I'm 6 feet away from the speakers as opposed to 2 metres.  But probably relate more to 100 metres rather than 300 feet. But in terms of roller coasters, 200 feet and 400 feet mean more to me than...however much it may be in metres.  Oh well.
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Mr ChriZ

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Metrication
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 04:00:31 pm »

I was educated the metric way... but growing up in the uk like Astronomo suggests am used to things being a little hit and miss.

What got me the other day though was this.  I went to replace the seat belt in my car and needed a 14mm socket which I didn't have.
I got down to the store and 14mm sockets were sold in three sizes - 1/2" 1/4" and 1/8".  So the wrench end is imperial and the socket end metric...
Seriously who decided that was a good idea?!

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2014, 06:38:31 pm »

Where do you live?  I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.

Hello Jim,

Long time no see...

Canada has gone metric a long time ago (some time in the seventies I think). I must admit, this old timer still thinks in Imperial measures, but the younger folks here think in metric.

Michel
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6233638

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 06:51:08 pm »

Where do you live?  I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.

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JimH

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 07:13:22 pm »

Note the size of Antarctica.
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BryanC

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 07:29:56 pm »

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Daydream

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 11:03:29 pm »

Read the PS on my post here and Glynor's answer 3 down from it. Good fun!
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Sheriff1972

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2014, 03:17:52 am »

Where do you live?  I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.

Reading Jim's post, just made me laugh out loud :-)

Greetings from the UK.

P.S. just bought my upgrade to 20.
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Hendrik

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2014, 03:19:59 am »

Where do you live?  I can't think of an English speaking country that uses the metric system.

Canada, just a few miles to your north? :) Among like all other english speaking countries on the globe.

Many people in other countries prefer using English software instead of translations (ie. me!), doesn't mean they use antiquated measurement systems as well.
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notred

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2014, 03:36:09 am »

Yes, I concur...  8)
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MrHaugen

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2014, 03:36:58 am »

I never every use my local language if I can choose English. IT and everything with it are English in my mind. Translations are often ridiculously bad. So, I would also like Metric system, independent of language.
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StFeder

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2014, 03:41:41 am »

Many people in other countries prefer using English software instead of translations (ie. me!), doesn't mean they use antiquated measurement systems as well.

Same for me. I use most software in my native language (german) if available but I don't for MC because using it in German makes it much more difficult to participate here at Interact.

Sidenote: I had to help out a friend of mine with some special settings in MC lately and I had to switch to English language because I wasn't able to find all needed settings in the (really good) German translation.
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pahunt

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2014, 03:43:11 am »

Another vote for selecting metric independent of language. I'm from the UK and imperial measurements mean very little to me in most cases.

robydago

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2014, 04:04:13 am »

Many people in other countries prefer using English software instead of translations (ie. me!), doesn't mean they use antiquated measurement systems as well.

+1
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dean70

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2014, 04:46:02 am »

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gottwavo

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2014, 04:59:51 am »

I just saw this discussion. And I must say nothing much has changed in 30 years and more: Many Americans can think from coast to coast only despite globalization. And yes this is a long way. But the picture of the map shows how short this is compared to ROW (Rest of the world).

I am using MC in English - my mother tongue is German - since the German translation is sometimes difficult to understand and I have used MC before the German translation was available.

So broaden your horizon. There a some more people living beyond ...
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Zorglub707

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2014, 05:00:44 am »

+ 1 from Belgium
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robydago

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2014, 05:19:40 am »

Win7 and Win8 have a specific system setting "Measurement System" that can be changed regardless of the system region and language.
Can't MC read that system setting and behave accordingly?
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jmone

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2014, 05:22:19 am »

Actually, the US does use the Metric System and has for over 100 years.  The US :
- Is one of the original developers and signatures of the "Metre Convention";
- Officially adopted the Metric Standard in 1893; and
- still to this day defines "US Customary Units" (such as the foot and pound) in Metric.

.... then spectacularly failed ... to convince their citizens to use it.

More here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States

I especially like this response from the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, "stating that customary units were defined in the metric system, thus making the nation "bilingual" in terms of measurement systems. He also said that using the metric system was a choice to be made by individuals".  From this I take two points:

1) I find it ironic that only a Government Department responsible for "Standards" could suggest that all individuals should just pick one they like, and;

2) from an MC perspective, you should only use metric from now on, as it is officially of no inconvenience to US users (since you are bilingual) and obviously the rest of the world is not.  

Thanks
Nathan
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jmone

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2014, 05:30:13 am »

More bad news I'm afraid, looks like Myanmar plans for move to metric as well moving away from their current "Customary Units" such as the "basket, viss, tin and tical".  

Shame about the tical...  ;D  Who would not want a basket of tical!
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JimH

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2014, 06:29:09 am »

We'll switch to metric when we start driving on the left side of the road.
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jmone

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2014, 06:34:00 am »

 ;D One thing at a time!  Before that you need to learn how to spell,
Metre
Media Centre
Colour
Mum

are all good starts!
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astromo

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2014, 06:43:44 am »

We'll switch to metric when we start driving on the left side of the road.

Revolutionary! No wonder the British got a spanking. They have only been upholding long standing tradition dating back to the Ancient Romans, Greeks and Egyptians:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#History
that us Antipodeans also follow.

As I said above, it's not that hard to convert. There are plenty of online converters out there on the interweb if a calculator and (from memory) 1ft = 0.3048m doesn't work. Loving the cut and thrust that a bit of units contention generates.

Fortunately MC is not being used to control a space vehicle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure
Your compatriots over at the Cape didn't cover themselves in units of measure glory with that one. Kind of underlines the irony in jmone's comments around "bilingual"ity..  8)
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astromo

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2014, 06:45:44 am »

;D One thing at a time!  Before that you need to learn how to spell,
Metre
Media Centre
Colour
Mum

are all good starts!

Careful. All Jim needs is your address and you'll be chasing Australorps around the back yard..  :o
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JimH

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2014, 06:46:36 am »

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jmone

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2014, 06:50:15 am »

That is the great thing about standards, there are so many to choose from!

And FYI - we already have 4 Australorps in the back yard (and a couple of Reds).


Edit - Mmmm, Jim's pretty quick, my change to his Avatar lasted about 1min!
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2014, 07:19:01 am »

For the record, the metric system is better in all ways than the Imperial system for measurement.  However, I do not agree that the Celsius system is better than the Fahrenheit system.  Or, at least, not better in all ways.

The Celsius system is too small for most everyday human-scale activities.  It works well for science (or well enough) though it is still arbitrary that it is based on the boiling and freezing points of water at a particular pressure (and therefore altitude), and so then we require the Kelvin scale for other purposes.

All measurements are based on arbitrary references, though.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2014, 07:27:47 am »

The Celsius system is too small for most everyday human-scale activities.  It works well for science (or well enough) though it is still arbitrary that it is based on the boiling and freezing points of water at a particular pressure (and therefore altitude), and so then we require the Kelvin scale for other purposes.

Too small how so?  I think entirely in Celsius... Kelvin makes sense from a scientific point, but since I'm unlikely to ever step out at 0 degrees kelvin I'm quite happy with Celsius.

gvanbrunt

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2014, 09:13:48 am »

Oh come on people. It's not like having 2 systems ever causes issues in the US. Apart from the odd $400,000,000 mars orbiter, there have been very few downsides.... :)

All kidding aside, many places that use metric (like Canada) are a mixed bag. Many use metric for this, imperal for that etc. Most software has a setting independent of the OS for units of measure. They also usually have a setting separate from the OS for language as well.  Look at word, etc.
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2014, 09:52:36 am »

Too small how so?  I think entirely in Celsius... Kelvin makes sense from a scientific point, but since I'm unlikely to ever step out at 0 degrees kelvin I'm quite happy with Celsius.

Celsius is less convenient when discussing weather (which is most relevant to most typical human activities) because the intervals are too large (the scale between 0 and 100 is too small).  For surface temperatures on Earth where most people live, you're only using from around -26 to 49C (a 75 spread).  The same thing in F provides 135 of spread.  For example:

The difference between a high of 70 F and 80 F is substantial to a human when deciding what to wear for the day.  The difference in C is ~5.5, which is less obvious than using ranges of 10s of degrees.  Likewise, when measuring my 3 year old's fever.  37 C is perfect, 38 is elevated enough (only one degree of difference) to probably keep her home for the day.  It certainly works, and I can "think" in either scale, but F provides a more intuitive and useful range for weather (without having to resort to using decimal places).

There are other problems as well.  Most people are taught that 0C is the freezing/melting point of water, but this isn't actually true.  Instead, 0 is the triple point of a certain kind of water (or has been since the mid-1950s, and even before that, the measurements of zero were wrong in the old centigrade scale).  That is, of course, close enough in real life, but can be a massive difference for scientific purposes.

Now, that's not to say that Fahrenheit is well designed either!  Using water as the yardstick (or meter, if you prefer) is arbitrary, but it is way more relevant than the completely arbitrary zero-point of the Fahrenheit scale.  All units of measure are arbitrary, of course.  The meter isn't special in any way, and wasn't even accurate as originally designed.  And, of course, the kilogram is shrinking.

So, I'm not arguing that Fahrenheit is good, only that Celsius isn't always better for everyday life, mostly due to the smaller interval between degrees.  Something akin to the Rankine scale, with the zero point set at the freezing point of water (instead of the mostly-theoretical absolute zero point) would be more convenient for everyday use.  But that's never going to happen and Celsius has largely won for all its flaws.
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6233638

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2014, 10:07:52 am »

;D One thing at a time!  Before that you need to learn how to spell
[]
I enjoyed the fact that BryanC's map used Countries that are relevent

At least the UK seems to allow some flexibility: http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8363265.Motorists_confused_by_30mph_and_40mph_speed_limit_signs_at_Bakers_Arms_roundabout
Well it's easy to see how that happened. It concerns me that someone would not know the limit is 30 in that situation though.
Disregarding the fact that the sign is clearly newer, the slower speed should obviously take precedence.

However, I do not agree that the Celsius system is better than the Fahrenheit system.  Or, at least, not better in all ways.

The Celsius system is too small for most everyday human-scale activities.  It works well for science (or well enough) though it is still arbitrary that it is based on the boiling and freezing points of water at a particular pressure (and therefore altitude), and so then we require the Kelvin scale for other purposes.
The only people I've ever heard make this argument, are people that grew up in a country still using Fahrenheit.
A change of 1℃ is equal to a change of 1K so that keeps things easy enough.

Celsius is less convenient when discussing weather (which is most relevant to most typical human activities) because the intervals are too large (the scale between 0 and 100 is too small).  For surface temperatures on Earth where most people live, you're only using from around -26 to 49C (a 75 spread).  The same thing in F provides 135 of spread.
In Metric units, we have these things called decimals. ("decimal fractions" if you are American)
The "75 spread" becomes 750 units when you use a single decimal place.

There are other problems as well.  Most people are taught that 0C is the freezing/melting point of water, but this isn't actually true.  Instead, 0 is the triple point of a certain kind of water (or has been since the mid-1950s, and even before that, the measurements of zero were wrong in the old centigrade scale).  That is, of course, close enough in real life, but can be a massive difference for scientific purposes.
0℉ was supposed to be the freezing point of brine and 100℉ was supposed to be the average temperature of the human body. (neither of which is accurate today either)
That seems more arbitrary than the freezing and boiling points of water.
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2014, 10:21:58 am »

I made that point about the Fahrenheit scale.  But 0/100 isn't the freezing point and boiling point of water in Celsius either.  They're almost equally arbitrary. ;)  ;D

Temperature measurements aren't like mass and distance.  You hit the "relativistic" walls much closer to human experience, is all.  And humans don't like to think in fractions or decimals.  The intervals are too large so you have to on a daily basis with Celsius.  But, even if you assume that thinking in decimals can work, 750 "units" is too many units.  There's not a happy medium that works well for everyday human experience.

Again, not terrible, but not always clearly better.  Unlike all the other "metric system" measurements (which are clearly better).
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2014, 10:43:28 am »

As an aside, I've always found it fascinating that we didn't try to move time measurement to a decimal scale at the same time.  Why is time special?  The divisions of time are, of course, the most arbitrary things imaginable.  And, the modern time system is much newer than the other measurement systems (the origin of the real modern era really being spawned by the railroad), so you'd think there would have been a better opportunity to switch to a more sane system.

Why do we still have wacky 24-hour days, 60 minute hours, and 60 second minutes?

EDIT: I suppose that the French messed it up for everyone.
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6233638

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2014, 10:54:42 am »

I made that point about the Fahrenheit scale.  But 0/100 isn't the freezing point and boiling point of water in Celsius either.  They're almost equally arbitrary. ;)  ;D
How does the freezing point of brine relate to the average temperature of the human body? That is arbitrary.
The freezing and boiling points of water seem like a logical choice to base your temperature scale around.
 
OK, maybe the scale is not as accurate as it could be today, since it was created in the 1700s, but that does not make it an arbitrary scale.
And it is still accurate enough for general use. The triple-point of water is 0.01℃, and the boiling point is 99.9839℃ so it's not that far off.

And humans Americans don't like to think in fractions or decimals.
Fixed your post. :P
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2014, 11:15:51 am »

The freezing and boiling points of water seem like a logical choice to base your temperature scale around.
 
OK, maybe the scale is not as accurate as it could be today, since it was created in the 1700s, but that does not make it an arbitrary scale.
And it is still accurate enough for general use. The triple-point of water is 0.01℃, and the boiling point is 99.9839℃ so it's not that far off.

But it isn't even 0.01℃ or 99.9839℃.  It is only that when you use the new Celsius (since they corrected it to match Kelvin) for a particular type of water (with a particular mineral content, mostly salinity, though other minerals can have an impact) at a particular atmospheric pressure (and therefore, altitude).

The boiling point of tap water in Denver isn't anywhere near 99.9839℃.

Is it less arbitrary than the 0 point that Fahrenheit invented?  Well... I guess that depends on whether "arbitrary" is a binary state.  But even if you accept that it is "less" arbitrary than any other system, that doesn't, alone, make it a good scale for everyday use.  You could, just as easily, define a scale with any other material.  And you could argue that it would make much more sense to use a yardstick that isn't such a good solvent, making the source always polluted.

My point was that they're all arbitrary.  All systems of measurement are only useful in a limited range of experience (which is why you don't measure galactic-scale sizes in meters, or quantum-scale weights in grams).

Celsius was a nice try, and better in many ways (especially for early scientific use) than Fahrenheit, but not universally better for typical human experience.
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Camver

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2014, 11:33:27 am »

Next build:
Changed: DSP Studio > Room Correction uses metric symbols when running in a non-English language.

I think I have the solution for all of us English speakers who want to use the metric measurement in JRiver.

We simply change the language to a non English alternative. Of course there is the slight snag that we would have to learn another language...
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2014, 11:57:42 am »

On a more serious note, there is a simple solution to this issue.  Make two language choices: English (US) and English (World).  Otherwise equivalent.

Don't change the spellings though because it is fun to drive them nuts.
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6233638

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2014, 12:00:27 pm »

Is it less arbitrary than the 0 point that Fahrenheit invented?  Well... I guess that depends on whether "arbitrary" is a binary state.  But even if you accept that it is "less" arbitrary than any other system, that doesn't, alone, make it a good scale for everyday use.
Arbitrary: Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I can see no reason to use the freezing point of brine as 0℉, and the average temperature of a person as 100℉.
That is completely arbitrary.
 
Using the freezing point of water for 0℃, and the boiling point for 100℃ is anything but arbitrary.
You can argue that this is not as accurate as it should be, but that does not make it an arbitrary choice.

I think I have the solution for all of us English speakers who want to use the metric measurement in JRiver.

We simply change the language to a non English alternative. Of course there is the slight snag that we would have to learn another language...
I wonder if the English (British) option counts as "non-English" in this context.
 
Though I would suggest that they be changed from:

  • English
  • English (British)

  • English (Simplified)
  • English

On a more serious note, there is a simple solution to this issue.  Make two language choices
Or follow the current system preference, without requiring an language change.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2014, 12:39:36 pm »

I'm with 6233638 regarding this although I think British English should be renamed Genuine English and English renamed Lazy English.

JimH

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2014, 12:45:02 pm »

Horse feathers.
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2014, 01:07:08 pm »

Arbitrary: Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

I can see no reason to use the freezing point of brine as 0℉, and the average temperature of a person as 100℉.
That is completely arbitrary.
 
Using the freezing point of water for 0℃, and the boiling point for 100℃ is anything but arbitrary.
You can argue that this is not as accurate as it should be, but that does not make it an arbitrary choice.

Hahahahaha.  I was really just trolling, and I'm pretty sure you are too.  But, this honestly gets to exactly my point.

0C is only the freezing point of water (give or take a fraction of a degree) with a particular, arbitrarily chosen, kind of water (the standard isn't actually 100% pure water because that's essentially impossible to reproduce, and there are all kinds of isotopes of water in different concentrations) at a particular, arbitrarily chosen, altitude.

100℃ is only the boiling point of water given the same arbitrary preconditions.

The boiling point of the same exact chemical composition of water in Denver is around 95℃.  At the top of Mt. Everest, water will boil at about 65C.  If water is exposed to outer space, it flash-boils instantly (after which it will either freeze solid or stay vapor, depending on if it is in sunlight or not).  We only think that "water boils at 100C" because that is close to the altitude where most people on the planet, or the powerful ones anyway, happen to live right now.  Give us 100 years and sea level will be different and the rules will have all changed.

We don't actually encounter pure water (or the close-to-pure water they set as the benchmark) very often in real life, nor do we encounter surface temperatures of 100C in everyday experience (if we did, we'd be very sad).

So, it is based on something.  But not necessarily something useful.

Fahrenheit is based on the (rough) freezing point of brine and the (rough) body temperature of a human.  They're not right, of course, and the amount of salinity in the brine is pretty random.  But the two items chosen do relate pretty well to average human experience.

100F is roughly the core average body temperature (I know, they say 37C/98.6F, but that is also arbitrarily chosen, because it varies by as much as 10F from person to person and based on the time of day, how much the subject has eaten, and a wide variety of other factors).  In any case, 100F, because it is roughly our body temperature, is also roughly the air temperature at which you transition from "uncomfortable" to "dangerous".  A normal, healthy human can easily withstand 92F air all day long and (given no other external factors) they might be uncomfortable, but not in serious danger.  Above 100F, and you head into danger, because your core body temperature will start to rise uncontrollably.

Likewise, it is around 0F that exposed skin freezes, not 0C.  Because we are bags of mostly salty water.  And, of course, that worked pretty well when you were mostly concerned about navigating the oceans and avoiding pack ice, and didn't care so much about slick roads from freezing rain (which, by the way, doesn't happen at 0C air temperature either).

They're both arbitrary, but Fahrenheit (for all its flaws) does happen to relate to the human experience of air temperature fairly well.  If not by design, then by accident.  Celsius related pretty well to doing basic chemistry and other science back when the standard was invented, though most modern, interesting science today requires using vastly different scales.

And don't even get me started on using so-called absolute zero (which is mythical) as a starting point.  ;)
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2014, 01:07:47 pm »

I'm with 6233638 regarding this although I think British English should be renamed Genuine English and English renamed Lazy English.

There are more of us than there are of you, and if it wasn't for us lazy English speakers, you wouldn't be speaking English at all.  ;) ;D
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glynor

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Re: Metrication
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2014, 01:12:59 pm »

Or follow the current system preference, without requiring an language change.

That's no good for reasons brought up by a bunch of people above.  I thought that (and suggested as much) in another confusing thread about language support, and it led to screams from many non-English-locale speakers.
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