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Author Topic: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion  (Read 4036 times)

rael71

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Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« on: September 19, 2014, 04:44:26 pm »

Hi,
When I enable PCM to DSD real time conversion but I got a distorsion in sound.

Windows 8.1, MC 20.0.17 (but I had these problem also with 19) and TEac UD-501 connected with USB.

I tried with every setting (ASIO or wasapi and 1x, 2x Native or DoP, modying buffers) but with the same results.

I tried also every DSD filter on my DAC but with same results.

One strange thing is that when i tried these feature some time ago when I had Windows 7 it worked.
Another strange thing is that I tried with another player and and the conversion (1x e 2x) works without any noise or distorsion

Any thoughts about it?



Thanks

Andrea
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Andrea

rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 09:59:23 am »

Anyone??


Please Help me!
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 11:18:18 am »

I missed this but I remember you posted your problems in the other thread.

Can you describe the distortion? Is it skipping, garbled, something else?

Let's go over everything again, first the most basic things.

Can you list your system specs? CPU brand/model, memory, etc?
Can you run a Jmark from Help/Benchmark? Run this when your system is idle and leave it alone for it to finish.

Native DSD output actually requires ASIO. Do you have the latest Teac Audio driver installed (version 1.03)?

Please check/correct your settings from Tools/Options:
- Audio/Audio Device - This needs to be set to TEAC ASIO USB DRIVER [ASIO]
- Click on Device Settings, set Volume device to the same as Audio Device
- Under Device Settings, set buffering to 100 milliseconds
- Enable Use large hardware buffers
- Under Tools, make sure the two options are NOT ticked

Close Device Settings and open DSP & Output Format.
- Make sure Output Format is ticked on the left
- Select 1xDSD in native format

Play something.

Check Audio Path (hover over the DSP icon in the upper right hand corner). Take note of the input, changes and output and report back.

If sound is skipping, increase the buffer under Tools/Options/Audio/Audio Device/Device Settings.

Change one thing at a time, don't make many changes.
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 12:36:08 pm »

Hi
I didn't see your answer in the other thread but anyway thanks for your help!

First of all it's difficult for me to describe distortion in English but I'll try: it's not skipping maybe garbled is the right word, a noise similar to that of broken speaker

Then beginning with my PC: motherboard gigabyte Z68XP-UD4, CPU Intel Core i7 2600K, RAM 16GB Vengeance Dual/Quad Channel Kit, 1600MHz, 9-9-9-24, 1.5V (4x4), SSD OCZ Vertex3 120GB
Then attached my JMark
In red my answers to what you wrote

Native DSD output actually requires ASIO. Do you have the latest Teac Audio driver installed (version 1.03)? YES

Please check/correct your settings from Tools/Options:
- Audio/Audio Device - This needs to be set to TEAC ASIO USB DRIVER [ASIO] YES
- Click on Device Settings, set Volume device to the same as Audio Device normally I leave auto because I  Volume mode disabled in audio option; now I set digital audio interface TEAC USB AUDIO DEVICE
- Under Device Settings, set buffering to 100 milliseconds normally I use use 50 and tried with every value without success; anyway now I set 100 
- Enable Use large hardware buffers  YES
- Under Tools, make sure the two options are NOT ticked  YES

Close Device Settings and open DSP & Output Format.
- Make sure Output Format is ticked on the left
- Select 1xDSD in native format

Play something.

Check Audio Path (hover over the DSP icon in the upper right hand corner). Take note of the input, changes and output and report back.

If sound is skipping, increase the buffer under Tools/Options/Audio/Audio Device/Device Settings. DONE but sadly  I have the same noise and increasing buffer up to 500ms nothing changes (attached audiopath)

As I wrote before I tried with another player (I don't know if I can tell what player) and everything ran smoothly in 1x e 2x...
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 12:48:10 pm »

Can you go to Help/Logging, enable logging to a file or, if that is already enabled reset log file.

Click OK, play something for a few seconds, stop it and go to Help/Logging again and click on Report Problem.

Attach the file from your desktop to a reply please.

Thanks!
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 01:01:12 pm »

Here it is!
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 01:32:33 pm »

I don't see anything obviously wrong in MC's log.

I have to admit its been a while since I looked at Windows stuff (ahem) but from the systemlog I think I understand almost all your drivers are default windows drivers (they list version 6.3.9600.xxxxx).

Do you know whether you installed an INF update and drivers from their respective manufacturers?

Did you try other USB ports?

You could use the USB icon in the notification area to see which hub the TEAC its connected to. The TEAC needs a USB 2.0 configured for high speed but it should work fine on a USB 3.0 port too (I have it like that and it works fine for me).
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 02:40:08 pm »

I tried with another USB ports but without success...
For the drivers I only installed the ETRON USB 3.0 drivers, the only ones that are on motherboard support site because the other driver are installed plug'n'play with Windows 8.1.

At this point I think I have to give up DSD conversion (at least with JRiver), it's a pity because I'd like to play with it a little bit but I will survive anyway...

Mouse thanks so much for your help!
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2014, 04:12:21 pm »

I don't think were done, unless you want to call it a day.

The default drivers supplied with Windows 8 are not always the best. They are intended to get you going and often provide enough for most people, but when you hit some trouble I think its always best to update them to the latest from the supplier.

Your motherboard has a Z68 chipset, you can download the INF update from Intel website for your chipset. I would also download Intel SATA drivers while you're at it. LAN is Realtek, you can get a new driver here.

I'm not familiar with ETRON or their software/drivers, to be sure I would connect the Teac to an integrated Intel USB port. I'm not sure if you can figure out which ones those are, the motherboard manual and schematic should help with that.

I have a very similar PC, Asus P68 chipset and I had a Z68 too from Asrock. The Teac worked flawlessly on both. It is now connected to an Intel NUC and again it works perfectly. The NUC is a lot slower than your 2600k.

Don't give up so easily, we can get this to work.
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2014, 06:21:38 pm »

Making some researches I stumbled into this http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/teac-ud-multi-channel-sound-5-surround-channels-and-1-lfe-low-frequency-effects-channel-noise-problem-20722/; this brought to my mind the fact that since I have 8.1 (june 2014) often with chrome (not firefox, explorer or opera) i have the same problem described there and that when i use VLC a few times in the middle of a video this problem comes out and I solve it in the same way described there.
All this didn't happen with Win 7 and never happened with JRiver both with 7 or 8 so I never worried for that.

I tried with another PC with windows 8 32bit (mine is 8.1 64bit) and it has the same problem; now I start to thinking seriously that the DAC could have problems.

Tomorrow I'll try with another PC with seven and I can also try my PC  with my friend's UD-501 to see if the problem stll happens.
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 12:25:42 am »

I don't get it ... the Teac is a 2-channel stereo device, it does not support multichannel/LFE so why is that link called like that?

The guy over in the other thread mentioned it happened with Win7 too, so its not a problem with Win8.x specifically.

Having said that, I get that same noise from video 2 while playing Netflix, I pause and continue after it works fine again. I never had it with JRiver or something else so I figured it was Netflix screwing up. I'll try the input knob next time it happens see if that helps too.
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 02:12:22 am »

Tonight I can try with a win 7 laptop to see of google-YouTube And pcm2dsd problems happen with it
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Andrea

rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 01:11:37 pm »

So I tried with win 7 laptop: no problem with youtube on chrome, the tired 1x PCM2DSD with JRiver 20 and no distosrsion just skipping, I got rid of it setting buffer to 250ms. Nothing to do for the skipping with 2x PCM2DSD but again no distortion, so... good news.

I turned back to my 8.1 pc, uninstalled and reinstalled 1.03 drivers and now in chrome no more distorsions but this time several hiccups and now the same with Opera...!  ? Obviously the problem with distorsion in PCM2DSD remained.

So I uninstalled 1.03, turned back to 1.02 and ... surprise! no more problems with chrome (or Opera) and youtube.... The problem with PCM2DSD remained tough...

So it seems that my PC have problems with 1.0.3 but it has nothing to do problems in PCM2DSD conversion.

Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to connect my friend's UD-501 to my PC to see if it behaves in the same way as mine to be sure it's not a DAC but HW/SW problem
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 02:10:11 pm »

Please try updating your system drivers as I suggested above and try to figure out which USB port is Intel's.

It's sounding more like a software thing than hardware.

I tried to turn the knob on the DAC when that distortion starts with netflix, but it doesn't help. Only stopping and starting it again helps.

I also had another listen and it doesn't sound the same as in the video. It looks like it but its not the same. I don't think I have the same issue. JRiver never has a problem for me with the Teac DAC and I'm using 2xDSD native via ASIO.
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marcob

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 02:51:04 pm »

Don't know if useful... I have a yulong da8, no noise using asio and output encoding: 4xdsd only if I use 500ms buffer, or 250ms for 2xdsd (lower value = noise). Strange thing, If I use DoP (1x or 2xdsd, of course), buffer seems not important (correct sound even with very low values).
And with bitstreaming yes (dsd), dsd256 or dsd512 works ok (but this is normal, I think).
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2014, 04:18:43 pm »

I finally tried with my friend's UD-501 and the conversion pcm2DSD has same problems.
So the dac works! maybe I worried too quickly but lately i've been sooo many problem with my audio devices that my first thought was "here we are again..."

As I told in my last post the problem with youtube and chrome has disappeared reinstalling 1.02 driver so now the only problem is the noise in pcm2 dsd conversion.

I updated the system as mouse suggested; in particular updated chipset inf, usb 3.0  and graphics. NIC and sata were up to date.


What I don't know how to do is to replace usb 2.0 windows standard driver with intel because download page of intel inf updater says "The Intel Chipset Device Software does not install drivers for AGP or USB. DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS UTILITY IF YOUR DEVICE MANUFACTURER IS RECOMMENDING IT TO CORRECT AN "AGP DRIVER," "AGP GART," OR "USB DRIVER" ISSUE; IT WILL NOT CORRECT YOUR ISSUE."

Currently my teac is installed here (see attachment); where can I find Intel drivers to replace standard Microsoft drivers ver. 6.3.9600.16384?

To Marcob: thanks for your help but I tried every combination of buffer size with native or DoP but nothing changed..
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2014, 10:44:07 pm »

I thought the INF update from Intel would update that, the USB 2 ports are part of the chipset.

You could open Device Management and check the properties of the USB hubs, the driver version should show whethter its updated or not.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 01:29:35 am »

Also, I think you should retest 1.03 after doing driver updates.

It might be that the newer 1.03 driver didn't work correctly with the older system/OS drivers but works correctly after you update.
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2014, 02:42:34 am »

Sadly I've already retested 1.03 after the update And they don't work (problems with chrome YouTube return).
For the usb hub drivers after the update device manager still says Windows not Intel in drivers panel
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Andrea

InflatableMouse

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 03:22:22 am »

I'm sorry to hear its not working for you.

I wish I could do more but I'm out of ideas I'm afraid.

I also sold my Teac this week so I can no longer help with testing different configurations.

I hope you manage to solve it somehow!
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rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 01:41:28 pm »

Thank you anyway for you efforts, as long as I can play music in JRiver without problems I'm fine and If I have to give up to PCM2DSD it's not a tragedy...

Maybe one day I can reinstall Windows 7 or I can wait for 1.04 drivers...
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Andrea

rael71

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Re: Problems with pcm2dsd conversion
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2014, 03:17:05 pm »

I did another test : I tried Asio Proxy http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_dsd_asio/ and using it I did PCM2DSD conversion leaving None in output encoding of JRiver.
The result is perfect, no distorsion or noise so I think the problem is related only to JRiver PCM2DSD... strange, very strange...
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Andrea
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