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Author Topic: Playback stop when exiting even with server running  (Read 15607 times)

glynor

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2015, 06:42:55 pm »

It's more about convenience for me.

I got that from you.  My post was directed at others.

I can see how that would happen and would be annoying.  It happens that it doesn't occur in any of my use cases.  I don't know if it is the biggest deal in the world, but I see it being a minor irritant.
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glynor

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2015, 08:09:14 pm »

I should also note, however, that I see where Matt (et all) is coming from on this too.  Here's the issue, when you start playback from the full, local UI, the expected behavior when you close the window would be to stop playback.

Not doing that would drive most users, myself included, batty.  Imagine having an inappropriate song playing at an inappropriate moment and you're not even sure of the source (MC? Web Browser tab? Where?) and you start closing windows, and it keeps playing with all the windows closed  No, can't have that.

Even if you play something remotely, there's lots of instances I can see where you wouldn't want this behavior (I wouldn't want it on my HTPC, for example, though it doesn't run Library Server full-time).

The only time when it makes sense is when you:
* Start playback from JRemote (or some other remote control system) while MC is already "closed" to Library Server mode.
* At some point during playback, you open MC's UI to do something unrelated to the current playback (tag some files, or whatever).
* When you're done, you close MC.

In that one set of behaviors, I can see it.  Since you started it that way, it "makes sense".  In almost all other cases, it doesn't.

So, that's the problem, they'd have to track a complicated set of play "state" behaviors, and decide when to do it and when not to.  I'm betting that they currently don't really even know if the playback was started locally or remotely.  Maybe they new it when it happened, but once playback is going, it almost certainly doesn't "matter" anymore how the commands came in.

And what about when commands are mixed?  Some things you did from the full UI and some from JRemote?  That's a common case in my instance.  And I don't think I'd expect playback to continue when MC was closed, just because I played a song or two while wandering off for a bit.

I don't know... I can see it, but that seems like a lot of special casing a reasonably "edgy" case.
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6233638

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2015, 01:43:38 am »

The only time when it makes sense is when you:[...]
I'm not sure that I agree. If Media Center is running, whether that is as MC or Media Server in the tray, it should be capable of playing audio in my opinion.

Maybe don't make it the default behavior then (though it does make sense if you have manually enabled MS, in my opinion) but an option to treat “close” as “minimize to tray” (minimizing to the MS icon) without interrupting playback while MS is running solves this, as far as I am concerned.
 
No need to track the state of what started playback—if MC is still running, even as MS in the tray, it should keep playing music.

If I want to quit, that option is available from the MS tray icon. After all, that is the whole reason to enable MS as far as I am concerned—to keep MC running all the time, preventing playback from being interrupted.

If I want playback to stop when I hit “close”, I wouldn't enable MS.

Most other programs that I have used, which have the option to run as a “server” in the tray, treat their “close” button as “minimize to tray” rather than closing and interrupting whatever they were currently doing.

Perhaps treat quit via the file menu differently, but ALT+F4 or hitting the close button in the upper-right shouldn't stop playback in my opinion. It should just hide the UI.

And I can see where someone may only want this behavior for audio playback and not video, but I think that only complicates matters.
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glynor

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2015, 06:51:59 am »

If I want playback to stop when I hit “close”, I wouldn't enable MS.

I close the UI to stop playback on my server machine all the time.  Probably every day.  And it has to run the Library Server because that is its job.

With the actual minimize to tray icon enabled, then I wouldn't argue (I don't use that anyway) if close didn't close and minimized to tray instead.  Though I do find applications that do that irritating (because it is harder to actually exit them), but I'd get that.

The Library Server has a job, and it isn't playback.  That it happens to work is a nice bonus, but...  It isn't "for" that.
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mwillems

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2015, 08:47:12 am »

I close the UI to stop playback on my server machine all the time.  Probably every day.  And it has to run the Library Server because that is its job.

With the actual minimize to tray icon enabled, then I wouldn't argue (I don't use that anyway) if close didn't close and minimized to tray instead.  Though I do find applications that do that irritating (because it is harder to actually exit them), but I'd get that.

The Library Server has a job, and it isn't playback.  That it happens to work is a nice bonus, but...  It isn't "for" that.

I'm with Glynor on this;  I use the server widget as a server.  When I close a a full MC instance on my server, with the server in the tray, I want local playback to stop.  I literally can't think of another media player that doesn't stop playing when you close the main window (even if it has a service running as well).  

I don't think I "get" why leaving media server off, and using minimize to tray isn't the answer?  I think (using MCC commands) you can even launch MC minimized on startup, no? What functionality is missing?  

If it's just a matter of relearning to hit minimize instead of close, then I definitely don't get it.  It's not like a new user would intuitively expect that playback would continue when the window is closed (as almost all apps stop what they're doing when you close them).
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6233638

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2015, 09:38:22 am »

With the actual minimize to tray icon enabled, then I wouldn't argue (I don't use that anyway) if close didn't close and minimized to tray instead.  Though I do find applications that do that irritating (because it is harder to actually exit them), but I'd get that.
Well that is exactly the point - it is harder to close them accidentally, and that's what Media Server enables.
 
But while Media Server prevents you from stopping the MC process accidentally, it does not prevent you from stopping music playback.

So while it may not interrupt playback to DLNA clients (I guess that's how you are using it?) it does interrupt playback to local devices.
 
And things like my AirPlay clients are seen as "local devices" because I have to run them through a virtual audio device, so it effectively kills all audio around the house when this happens - which is what I thought the Media Server option was supposed to prevent in the first place.


"Minimize to tray" doesn't help, because it does not prevent you from closing the MC process at all.
It simply adds another icon right next to the Media Server one. (even though they're the same process)

I don't think I "get" why leaving media server off, and using minimize to tray isn't the answer?  I think (using MCC commands) you can even launch MC minimized on startup, no? What functionality is missing?
Because that won't run automatically when you log in, and does not prevent you from closing the MC process.


I think you are both seeing Media Server and Media Center as separate processes, when they are not.
MS is just a mode of operation for MC that minimizes it to the tray when you hit close.

The problem (for some of us) is that it also issues a stop command when doing so.
An option to disable this stop command and allow local playback to continue solves all of this.
 
I would rather that it was as difficult as possible to accidentally stop all audio in my house, than have Media Server kill all "local" audio when I close the MC window.
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marko

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2015, 10:10:19 am »

I'm with glynor here, in post #51, concluding "edgy case".

I've read the whole thread, and that post, for me, encapsulates the problem, and explains the bigger picture that might affect everyone else. Some comments don't feel quite right though...

Quote
The Library Server has a job, and it isn't playback.  That it happens to work is a nice bonus, but...  It isn't "for" that.
Surely this isn't so? We have the option in Gizmo to "Play there". That means that the fact we can initiate local playback remotely is a concious feature, not a quirky bonus. Isn't that precisely what all the "Tremote" buzz was about when it was first introduced? "Use a laptop as an MC remote". What I do feel is a nice bonus, is that with only the server running, I can hit a keyboard combo to begin Playdoctor playback, and the server catches that and kicks off the playlist.

Getting back to the thread topic...
On my server machine, I have the server start with Windows. This allows Gizmo and the HTPC to connect, which is excellent and as it should be. Once I open MC fully for whatever reason, it never closes. When I'm done, it gets minimised, to taskbar, not tray, and I forget about it. If I need it again, I click the taskbar icon and there's MC on the screen, ready for me.

I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why that is a problem? Minimise, not close. In my head, that shouldn't take long to train yourself to instinctively take that action with MC, and then the problem goes away?

-marko

mwillems

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2015, 10:12:06 am »

Because that won't run automatically when you log in, and does not prevent you from closing the MC process.

My point was you can easily set it up to run automatically at login.  MC's UI doesn't offer an "auto-launch minimized" option, but it should be trivial to script one using MCC commands.

Quote
I think you are both seeing Media Server and Media Center as separate processes, when they are not.
MS is just a mode of operation for MC that minimizes it to the tray when you hit close.

They may both inhabit the same PID, but they function separately; you can run one without the other in both directions.  The MS widget doesn't support all operations that the full UI window does (try launching a video through MS when no UI window is open and see what happens).  And if you run the MS-widget on multiple machines that are in a library client/server relationship it will lead to weirdness.  They're not interchangeable.

Surely this isn't so? We have the option in Gizmo to "Play there". That means that the fact we can initiate local playback remotely is a concious feature, not a quirky bonus. Isn't that precisely what all the "Tremote" buzz was about when it was first introduced? "Use a laptop as an MC remote".

None of that requires the media server widget to be running.  You can just enable media network and leave a UI window up and all network functionality (gizmo, library server, et al.) will still work.  The widget is a convenience, but not necessary for remote control, tremote, etc.  
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Dr Tone

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2015, 10:27:24 am »

My point was you can easily set it up to run automatically at login.  MC's UI doesn't offer an "auto-launch minimized" option, but it should be trivial to script one using MCC commands.
 

An easy solution in the mean time:

Create a shortcut to MC in the startup folder of the start menu, change shortcut to start minimized.
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6233638

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2015, 11:04:04 am »

I feel like people are trying to argue that one way of using the program is better than the other, while some of us would just like the option to use it differently, because that's what suits our setup.
 
 
Running MC minimized does not prevent people from closing the application, killing all local/networked/remote media playback.
Media Server prevents this, keeping networked/remote media playback running, but it still kills local playback.

One of the issues here is that "local" devices can actually be playing in other rooms around the house (e.g. a multichannel AVR treated as several stereo zones) not just in the same room as the PC, for those of us that are not using DLNA.

And I do not want MC to minimize to the tray either - minimized programs should remain in the taskbar, in my opinion. (I hate when a program disappears as you minimize it)
 
 
Media Server's behavior where it minimizes normally, and then hides in the tray when "closed" is exactly what I want - only I don't want it to also stop local playback when you do this.
 
And you can start local playback while Media Server is running if you're using a remote.
You just can't start local playback inside MC and then close the UI.
So it's not that Media Server cannot handle local playback.

try launching a video through MS when no UI window is open and see what happens
It seems to play just fine. I get audio and no picture - which is exactly what I want sometimes if I'm listening to a presentation which was posted on YouTube that I only need to hear the audio for.
 
If anything, doing this just further illustrates the fact that MC's full UI is running in the background when running as "Media Server" because the GPU load from madVR is identical to what I see if the MC window is visible. (and GPU load would change if it were rendering to a different window size in madVR)
 
If anything, I'd want MC to stop rendering the video at that point, and only play the audio if it were at all possible.
 
But I suppose you might run into issues where you then want to bring up the video for a certain part, and I'm not sure how well it would handle that. I usually end up playing to a zone configured to use RO Standard instead, to keep the GPU load down.
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6233638

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2015, 12:36:57 pm »

Bumping this because it was an issue over the weekend again.
 
It would be really nice to have playback continue when Media Server is active and you close the window, instead of shutting down all audio and video playback across the house.
 
It doesn't close the Media Center process, it just seems to hide the UI and issue a stop command. I'd like an option for it to not stop playback.
Maybe even add a "stop all playback" command to the Media Server tray menu (which would be nice to have anyway) if you think that's going to be a problem.
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tyler69

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Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2016, 03:38:52 pm »

Bumping this because it was an issue over the weekend again.
 
It would be really nice to have playback continue when Media Server is active and you close the window, instead of shutting down all audio and video playback across the house.
 
It doesn't close the Media Center process, it just seems to hide the UI and issue a stop command. I'd like an option for it to not stop playback.
Maybe even add a "stop all playback" command to the Media Server tray menu (which would be nice to have anyway) if you think that's going to be a problem.

Hi there.  Are there any plans to add such functionality?
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