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[iCamp]

Say I want to print a list of all the audio files in my media library.  I'd like the artist, song title, album and maybe a few other fields to be included.  

What's the absolute easiest method to do this?

I've tried the following:

Click on Media Library in the tree
Select "Export Playlist" from the File menu
Select HTML, Only Visible Fields, and All as the range
Open the resulting HTML file in Excel and edit until it's printable.

The problem with this method is that the editing within Excel takes FOREVER.  So, I thought I'd break the huge file into alphabetical pieces.

Instead of selecting my entire Media Library at once I only select a specific portion of the alphabet (all artists begining with the letter 'A', for example).

This scenario made editing the individual HTML files in Excel much easier (though still very time consuming).  However, I began to notice some HTML errors that would result in incomplete files.  For example, in the 'G's' I only got about 1/2 the artists because of some style sheet error when transfering to Excel.

Regardless, the export HTML file to Excel method is far to tedious to continue.  I'd like to know what other options may be easier.

Are there any 3rd party software applications that can manage this?  I have OGG, MP3 & APE files so I need something that can print them all.

Any ideas?  

[sraymond]

Why not "Export to XML" and then create an XSLT to present the data however you want.  If you need help writing the XSLT, let me know and I can spend a few minutes throwing something together - it'd be quite easy if you already have a sample HTML template of how you'd like it to look.  If you're only looking for a simple table, that's even easier.  I remember someone (maybe it was me?) put together some sort of XSLT about four or six months ago - you might search INTERACT.

Scott-

[iCamp]

I'm sorry, I don't even know what an XSLT is.  I know nothing about XML.

I've tried the "export to XML" option without much luck.  I can view the raw data in a web browser but that's not what I want to print (obviously).  Excel finds all kinds of errors in the XML file too -so I can't open it there either.  I don't know what else to do with the XML file.

[sraymond]

iCamp,

OK...  based on your response, I'm going to conclude that you dont' have any experience with XML.  But that's OK.  Do you have a vision of what the resulting HTML should look like (i.e. what do you want to see in IE?)  If so, give me an example, and I'll write you an XSLT that you can have automatically applied to the .xml export when opening it with IE.

If you want just a simple table...  give me the field names and I can go from there.

Scott-

[iCamp]

Wow...that's very kind of you to offer.

All I really need are the following columns:

Artist
Album
Song
Track #
Date
Duration
file type
bit rate

I'd like them sorted by artist as it'll be easier to scan through alphabetically.

Thanks again!  

[sraymond]

OK...  here's something to give you an idea of what you can do.

You first need to download the XSLT file that I created for you.  You'll find it at http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottraymond/iCamp.xsl

Then you need to "Export to XML" and add the following tag to the resultant "MC Library.xml" file:

<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="iCamp.xsl"?>

It goes right after the XML Declaration, which should be the first line of the XML document and looks like:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>

To be clear, the first two lines of your "MC Library.xml" document should look like:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="iCamp.xsl"?>

You can use any text editor to make these changes...  though it might be too large for Notepad.

Make sure the iCamp.xsl and the "MC Library.xml" are in the same directory and then open the "MC Library.xml" document using IE.

Depending on the size of your library, it could take a bit to apply the transformation.  If it takes too long, you can always apply the transformation via the command-line and save the resultant html - I can explain the process to you later.

Again, this is just to give you an idea.  It's obviously not very pretty.  If you give me an HTML template that you find "pretty", I'll change the XSLT to make it look similar.

Scott-

[sraymond]

I'm sure one of the plug-in gurus could have easily written a plug-in that does what I just did with XSLT.  And maybe some people won't appreciate the difference - so here's my perspective.

With a plug-in, the user is pretty much stuck with what the programmer wrote.  Sure, the programmer could add a lot of customizationability (or is it just customability?), but you can't please everyone.

With XML/XSLT, the user can modify the XSLT rather easily.  Sure, there's a bit of a learning curve, but it's a LOT less steep than the programming languages most are familiar with (C++, Java, VB, etc.).

Of course, the downside to the "Export to XML" is that it isn't real-time.  So...  the best of both worlds would be if a kind plug-in developer would write a plug-in that exported to XML, applied an external XSLT, and displayed the result in MC's internal browser.  It would be even better if JRiver added the ability to export just the current view scheme to XML - I don't think this is currently possible.

Any takers?

Scott-

[Omni]

Wow.  Score 1 for MSIE.

I tried loading my .xml file in IE, and it took about 4 - 5 seconds to process and display the results.

I tried it again in Mozilla, and it took about 45 - 50 seconds!

(And my library is relatively small, too.  Only about 1000 tracks and 200 pictures.)

[jleerigby]

Have you tried this?

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Other_Plugins;action=display;num=1060631838;start=0#0

[jleerigby]

And a bit more info here:

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1058989382

[NoCodeUK]

Omni,

That is the main rerason I haven't transferred over to a Moz based browser full time.  Although they stamp on IE in most respects especially CSS support their XML support is very poor.  The IE XML engine is vastly superior to anything else available at the moment that I can tell and because it is a separate component it can be updated to.  Sometimes M$ do get it right it seems!!

Adam

[sraymond]

Hmm...  I've just had a look at the "Export Playlist"'s HTML.  It'd be nice if JRiver added an XML option (then we wouldn't need "Export to XML").  The "Export Playlist" has more functionality (export selection and choose fields), so I wonder why there's even a separate "Export to XML" in the first place.

Even if JRiver won't add an XML option, we're lucky that the HTML seems to be XHTML-compliant (it's certainly well-formed XML).  So it's straight forward to transform the "HTML" (rather, let's call it XHTML without the proper declaration) into a preferred HTML (sorting, filtering, grouping, etc.) with XSLT.

Let me think about this some more...  but this might work much better than the "Export to XML" option.  If I get some time this weekend, maybe I'll do a proof-of-concept that groups by author/album.  Are there any good HTML writers out there that could whip up a template for me?

Scott-

[iCamp]

sraymond,

I just wanted to thank you again for your help.  I was able to print out exactly what I wanted.  I think it was the largest text file I've ever printed (37MB!!).  

The plug-in is very nice for HTML but not quite as useful for printing a hard copy.  I'll follow this thread to see if anything more develops. It would be nice to see a plug-in that allows for quick automatic updating (thus, making it easier every time you add to your library).

Thanks again,

-Camp

[sraymond]

Have you tried this?

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Other_Plugins;action=display;num=1060631838;start=0#0

JLee,

Thanks for the link...  ExportIt seems like a great start.  I don't see how it let's you export tags, though.  But the potential is there.

Scott-

[sraymond]

sraymond,

I just wanted to thank you again for your help.  I was able to print out exactly what I wanted.  I think it was the largest text file I've ever printed (37MB!!).  

The plug-in is very nice for HTML but not quite as useful for printing a hard copy.  I'll follow this thread to see if anything more develops. It would be nice to see a plug-in that allows for quick automatic updating (thus, making it easier every time you add to your library).

Thanks again,

-Camp

You're welcome.  And I agree that a plug-in would be great.  Maybe Stilton is willing to help.  I'll PM him and see what he thinks.

Scott-

[kiwi]

Is there any way to only export certain fields in XML?  or to remove fields easily once the file has been created?  I have some lyrics in the files, and they cause the xml to be malformed.

I did find a simple solution though, in one of the other threads someone said that you could copy the contents of the statistics window, I can't seem to get a copy option, but I can get a print option.  So, I can just select the files that I want and print out the albums/artists.  Not ideal, but works for making packing lists for boxes.

kiwi

[Doof]

What's wrong with File->Print?

[sraymond]

I have some lyrics in the files, and they cause the xml to be malformed.

kiwi

JRiver should have used CDATA sections...  this would prevent the parser from parsing the content of elements.

Scott-

[sraymond]

What's wrong with File->Print?

I hadn't though of that...  it's about as easy as it gets - if the format is acceptable.

There's no flexibility on the presentation - but if all you want to do is print the list, why not?

Scott-

[sraymond]

Is there any way to only export certain fields in XML?

Not with Export to XML.  But I'm thinking that the "Export Playlist" (HTML) will work just as good.  It'd be a shame, though, to have to rework the XSLT if JRiver decides to change the rpesentation.  After all, a power of XML is that it separates the data from the presentation.

I'm still hoping a plug-in developer will write us something that creates an appropriate XML document.

Scott-

[MachineHead]

I hadn't though of that...  it's about as easy as it gets - if the format is acceptable.

The format can be any fields (columns) currently shown. With creative minds that linger here it could as simple as artist, to as complex as year artist genre mother-in-laws maiden name of the roadie who belched at you as you tried to sneak into the show.

Get the idea?

[sraymond]

Oh, I get it...  but I was talking about "format" (aka presentation), not "content".  I'll try to put together something today that shows what's in my mind - assuming I can coax it out to see the light of day!

Scott-

[sraymond]

Here's a quick sample I put together of what we can do with XML and XSLT.

Screenshot:


View full-size in Browser:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottraymond/Media%20Library%20(Audio)%20Album%20Group.htm

The beauty of this approach is that the end-user can modify the XSLT to suit their own purposes.  Don't get me wrong...  CSS is great for customizing colors, fonts, etc.  But XSLT let's you customize the entire presentation:  move things around, add links (say to lyrics), change grouping, perform sorting, etc.

If JRiver or a plug-in developer would commit to giving a more robust XML Export (at least allow chosen fields, exporting selection, and CDATA sections) that conforms to a JRiver-sponsored schema (the Export to XML would seem good enough), I'd be glad to write the XSLT for the above sample - or any other sample template someone with more HTML and artistic talent than me can come up with (not hard!).

I could probably also add some JavaScript to collapse/expand some of the content - lyrics come to mind.

Scott-

[Marko]

sraymond, that's d*mned impressive m8.

I would lurve to be able to present my library like that!!

[kiwi]

What's wrong with File->Print?

For me, it prints out all tracks, not just a list of the albums that I want.  

I'll play around with export to html.

It's funny, I just started learning xml/xslt yesterday.  I'm updating a list that I'd created of all the good sound devices that are out there (well, most of them, I think that I'm up to 30 or so).  I figured that going with xml for the data and just create the html with a xslt any time I needed it.

kiwi

[MachineHead]

For me, it prints out all tracks, not just a list of the albums that I want.  

@kiwi

Select the albums you want, go into action window, file properties, statistics. It will then print out a list of only what you have selected. You can specify just album from that.


@sraymond

OK, ok. I get your point now. Looks nice.  

[sraymond]

I figured that going with xml for the data and just create the html with a xslt any time I needed it.

Yup...  so long as the schema of the XML doesn't change - 'cause you'll need to update the XML and the XSLT would require rework if the schema changes.

I hope JRiver can deliver on the XML.

Scott-

[sraymond]

You ever have that feeling that something in the back of your mind is important - but you can't put your finger on what it is or why it's important?

I just "remembered" (and I'm not even 52 yet!) that the "Export Playlist"'s MPL Playlist Format is really an XML document.  So this means that it's one step better than the "Export to XML" because you can export the selection only.  Given this, I really don't see why there's even a separate "Export to XML" function.

Now if JRiver could add at least one tweak (wrap the element content in a CDATA section), we'd be good to go.

If I get some time tomorrow, I'll do the XSLT for the "Album Group" I suggested above.  It'll only work for those that don't have illegal XML characters (until JRiver uses CDATA sections), but it'll be a nice proof of concept.

Scott-

Scott-

[kiwi]

Yup...  so long as the schema of the XML doesn't change - 'cause you'll need to update the XML and the XSLT would require rework if the schema changes.

 

Since it's an XML file that I'm creating, the schema won't change unless I want it to.

Btw, if anyone has any experiences with different sound cards, I'm in the process of updating this list of cards:

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1054391438

if there are any cards that I've missed, and/or any comments that people have about any of these cards, please let me know.  (probably best to PM or reply to that thread.

kiwi

[sraymond]

Here's what the "proof-of-concept" XSLT produces:


If you want to see what it looks like for real:
1.  "Export Playlist" as an MPL and save to a directory.  Let's say you call it "Audio.xml".
2.  Download the XSLT http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottraymond/AlbumGroup.xsl.
3.  In the "Audio.xml" file, add the line "<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\XMLDevelopment\AlbumGroup.xsl"?>" right after the first line (which is "<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>").  Make sure the path matches where you saved the "AlbumGroup.xsl" - or if they're in the same directory, you don't need the path.

Now just open "Audio.xml" with IE.  The transformation will be applied automatically.

If there's an interest in this, let me know.  Off the top of my head, I can think of a few things to add:  CSS, graphical (icon) rating, shade every-other row, "no album" image, display x albums per page, add expandable lyrics field.  The devil is in the details, so I'd rather not do this if there's no interest.

It'd also be great if a plug-in developer was willing to write a plug-in for this - so that it could all be done from within MC (including using the internal browser).  Then we could take this discussion to the Plug-In board :-)

Thoughts?

Scott-

[modelmaker]

Straymond:
"I just "remembered" (and I'm not even 52 yet!)"

I heard that!

[jleerigby]

I think this is a great idea Scott.  I'd just want to be able to choose which columns are shown and maybe have the track names listed under an expandable option from an album list.  However it's developed I would be interested.  I'll keep watching this thread.

[sraymond]

I think this is a great idea Scott.  I'd just want to be able to choose which columns are shown and maybe have the track names listed under an expandable option from an album list.  However it's developed I would be interested.  I'll keep watching this thread.

I would put the columns to be shown as variables at the top of the XSLT - making it easy for you to customize for your own needs with a text editor.  I would also develop a separate XSLT for an album view without track names...  or if you had an idea for how the current html would look nice with an expandable album list, I could do it there.

A plug-in would really be nice, though - as it could do things like choose the columns for you and modify the css to make them fit well.  Today I'll write a message on the plug-in board and see if anyone's interested.

Scott-

[sraymond]

I'm going to start a new thread in one of the plug-in development boards...  I wonder:  Would it be better to have a third-party program that does this or an MC plug-in?  It's at http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Other_Plugins;action=display;num=1065550575;start=0#0

There's also a new version of the XSLT that adds a few new features and makes customization much easier.

Scott-

[mdlmn]

If you want to export all your playlist and tag info to Excel just select all then copy then paste into a Excel worksheet. After, you can sort, use pivot tables or anything in Excel to summarize and format the data and print.

[MidPack]

mdlmn

I was just going to say exactly the same thing. A simple cut and paste into Excel worked fine for me, and then I can adjust columns and sort however I like.

[MachineHead]

Any reason this doesn't display properly in Navigator? IE does so with no problem, Navigator just shows text.

[sraymond]

Any reason this doesn't display properly in Navigator? IE does so with no problem, Navigator just shows text.

There must be a problem with its internal XSLT engine - or maybe it doesn't have one?.  IE uses MSXSL which comes standard with IE6.0.  

Scott-

[sraymond]

mdlmn

I was just going to say exactly the same thing. A simple cut and paste into Excel worked fine for me, and then I can adjust columns and sort however I like.

Sure...  if that's all you want, it's probably the best way to go.  But if you want *presentation*, then I think you'll agree the XSLT route gives you a much better product.

Can you massage Excel to give you the presentation I showed in the the thread http://?http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Other_Plugins;action=display;num=1065550575


Scott-

[NoCodeUK]

Machinehead,

Currently there is no version of Navigator that can properly display XML with XSLT(not even Mozilla 1.5 or Firebird 0.7)...the only browser that can is IE as far as I can tell.  I ran this yesterday in Opera, IE and Firebird.  IE Displays the XSLT file but only if it is less than a certain size.  it will not display the XML export of the whole library.  Firebird and Opera just show the field data.  Opera renders the page extremely fast, much faster than IE or Firebird but this is obviously no use when it doesn't actually render the XSLT!!

Adam

[sraymond]

I was thinking of a solution to be able to save the resultant HTML...  if you just use IE's "Save As", you can only save the original XML.  One solution is to install an MSXSL tool that let's you "View XSL Output".

But I also came across some JavaScript:

<script language="javascript">
var XML = new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.DOMDocument.3.0");
var XSLT = new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.DOMDocument.3.0");

with (XSLT) {
async = false;
load("data.xsl");
}
with (XML) {
async = false;
load("data.xml");
var szOutput = transformNode(XSLT);
}

var myWin = window.open("about:blank","mywindow");
myWin.document.write(szOutput);

</script>

Is there something similiar that might work in *any* browser (isn't ActiveX just MS?).

Scott-

[kiwi]

I have used:
http://saxon.sourceforge.net/

and just had it generate the html code in an output file.  It worked w/o problems for me.  Not as easy as viewing in IE, but not a horribly bad option... at least for starters.

kiwi

[NoCodeUK]

After doing a bit of research at the Firebird forums I have found out that Gecko can display XSLT files just the same as IE can however a change needs to be made to the XSLT file.  The opening statement must read like so:

Code: [Select]


<xsl:stylesheet version="1.0" xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" xmlns:fo="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format">


Basically because Gecko is more fussy than IE it needs to have the XSLT namespace added to the declaration.  If this is done then the document displays fine.

Adam

[sraymond]

I did a few more additions.  It now looks like:


The thread http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Other_Plugins;action=display;num=1065550575;start=0#10 has more details.

Any CSS experts that might be willing to fix things a bit?

Scott-

[aussie1]

Mdlmn & Midpack:  I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread - cut & paste into excel is the simpleist

Better yet, load the data into your favorite report generation software and create the reports from there.  Report generators have been around for years, thousands of hours have gone into developing them, and they are quite polished and easy to use.

For example, import the XML data into MS Access. It would porbably take about 30 min to create a report with the same appearance as sraymond's. And it wouldn't require any programming.

[kiwi]

Yeah, but with xml and xstl, it doesn't really require any "programming" either.  (Especially, if you have an example to modify.)  Plus, you don't have to own a report generator.

If only we could get the xml to out without invalid information.  (I guess needing the data inside tags to be CDATA...)

kiwi

[sraymond]

Better yet, load the data into your favorite report generation software and create the reports from there.  Report generators have been around for years, thousands of hours have gone into developing them, and they are quite polished and easy to use.

I agree.  Report generation software is quite powerful.  Crystal Decisions is a great program and I use it all the time with real databases (mostly served with Sybase or Oracle).  But tell me this:  how many MC users have it laying around?  It's not exactly "bargain-priced" software.  Sure, there are cheaper products out there, but the fact remains:  a very small percentage of computer users have one at their disposal.

XML/XSLT has more than a 95% market penetration.  Not even Microsoft can claim that!

For example, import the XML data into MS Access. It would porbably take about 30 min to create a report with the same appearance as sraymond's. And it wouldn't require any programming.

Not to be pedantic, but creating a report in MS Access is every bit as much a "programming effort" as using Crystal, XML/XSLT, etc.  Just because its got a great graphical interface doesn't mean otherwise.  There are also some great XSLT authoring tools that use a nice GUI (XMLSpy and Stylus Studio for example).

If you're happy with Access, it's certainly a functional solution.  But it's proprietary and not everyone uses it or even has it.  Then if you want to publish it to the web, you've got a few more steps (though Access will certainly do it).  And if you want to automate it, you've got a few more.  And so on...  And you *won't* duplicate my presentation without some macros...  and that, I'm sure you'll agree, is CLEARLY a programming effort.

Lastly, the real power of XML/XSLT isn't in doing this first step I've taken.  You're right that there are other solutions that can be just as effective (though not as platform independent!).  Hopefully I will eventually realize some other stuff (like automating the export and publishing to a web server) - and these will work best (I think) on an XML framework.

Scott-

[sraymond]

Mdlmn & Midpack:  I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread - cut & paste into excel is the simpleist

As mentioned before, there's only one problem with this:  Extremely limited presentation options.  

If you don't need a nice presentation, though, it's definitely the way to go.

Scott-

[sraymond]

From the Third Party Plugins...  thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=15274 (Please post comments there!)

Here's the latest screenshot:



Scott-