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Author Topic: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?  (Read 4729 times)

P.M.

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Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« on: February 23, 2015, 02:26:13 am »

When used default preset of bit depth (Tools - Options - Audio - Device Settings - Output Format - Auto (recommended)) MC automatically increases the bit depth to 32 bits.
And no matter what kind of data (bit depth, sampling rate) is playing now.   

Only if I manually set the output format to the accuracy of the source file, comes true bit-perfect.


Automatic increase bit depth by MC has a negative impact on the quality of the sound. Sound greatly degraded! Only when bit depth from "input" and "output" matches the sound becomes correct. This is a very well heard on my system. For comfortable listening to music, I always have to set bit depth manually. It's not right and it is not convenient!

Another oddity is that my DAC input hardware (XMOS) does not support playback of content in 32-bit, but it playing, according to indications on MC)
In Windows 8 and Mac OS my DAC does not play content more than 24 bits. And that is correct.

Would very much like to in the auto mode MC would reproduce data without any changes.
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Hendrik

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 05:41:25 am »

Increasing the bitdepth is not a change in the audio, it just adds zeros to the end, the original audio is perfectly preserved, not a single bit is changed.
If you know that your DAC only supports 24-bits, its probably best to set MC to 24-bit output and leave it at that.
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~ nevcairiel
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P.M.

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 09:55:01 am »

In theory it is...

On this issue, I learned from my friends. They have different systems, but the description of the problem coincided.
Then I checked out what they were saying on my computer. All confirmed.
Tracks made in 16 bits need to listen to the 16-bit output. Hi-res tracks (24-bit) need to listen to the 24-bit output for 24-bit DAC.
The deterioration of the sound heard when the output bit depth is not the same bit depth at the entrance.
This is evident in flat musical stage, unnatural overtones of musical instruments and a simplified voice of the singer.
Do you not hear this?

I really do not understand from a technical point of view, how is this possible.  ?
It may be the case in MC conversion algorithm, case in appeared delay due to conversion or may be the case in the DAC.
But the system that were different. Different computers, different operating systems, different DACs and different listeners.

I think people who bought the player does not share the view that all the players sound the same.
I only ask that there was appeared some mode in which the player automatically select the same bit depth as that of the playing file.
It's so obvious and correct.  ::)
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Arindelle

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 10:12:27 am »

We are not talking about upsampling frequency you are referring to bit depth, right? Joan of Arc heard voices and saved France, but look what it got her! :D

If you want though,  simply go to the drop down box and choose 16bit or 24bit if thats waht your DAC wants, whats the big deal. If you want create another zone for 24bit output etc.

I think the more headroom the better, and for those that don't understand that, then that is where it should be automatic. For those that want to they can use the bit rate they want.
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P.M.

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 11:28:05 am »

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We are not talking about upsampling frequency you are referring to bit depth, right?
Right, I mean bit depth. Not sample rate.
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Joan of Arc heard voices and saved France, but look what it got her! Cheesy
If we build Hi-End system all matters ::)
For cheap computer multimedia systems it does not matter.
Such a system simply does not reveal the musical material at all.
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If you want though,  simply go to the drop down box and choose 16bit or 24bit if thats waht your DAC wants, whats the big deal.
OK, if I want to listen CD content I shall choose 16 bit in drop box.
If I want to listen SACD (DSD) or Hi-Res tracks I shall choose 24 bit in drop box.
Do not you find it a little uncomfortable?
In my opinion we have to somehow automate the process.

The results of listening to different systems show that the best when the data does not occur at any manipulation. No software or hardware.
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Arindelle

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 12:27:10 pm »

OK, if I want to listen CD content I shall choose 16 bit in drop box.
If I want to listen SACD (DSD) or Hi-Res tracks I shall choose 24 bit in drop box.
Do not you find it a little uncomfortable?
In my opinion we have to somehow automate the process.

The results of listening to different systems show that the best when the data does not occur at any manipulation. No software or hardware.
It can be automated - that is one of the (many) reasons zones in MC exist. Set a zone switch rule based on bit depth and it will switch.

Do I find it uncomfortable that giving the majority of users additional headroom by giving them 32 bits as a default? Absolutely not. Most users would benefit from this. Others can take the time out to learn
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P.M.

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 01:26:37 pm »

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It can be automated - that is one of the (many) reasons zones in MC exist. Set a zone switch rule based on bit depth and it will switch.
Can You tell more about it?
About how to set a zone switch rule.
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Do I find it uncomfortable that giving the majority of users additional headroom by giving them 32 bits as a default? Absolutely not. Most users would benefit from this.
I do not dispute that. Just when you select mode called "auto" you expect a little different program behavior.
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Arindelle

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 01:42:16 pm »

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Zones start with this and check the link to Listeners post and the link to Zone switch. If you need help with the zone switch rules, probably be better to start a new thread and I can get back to you. The switch rule would depend on whether you wanted to use bit depth or file type (or both)
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P.M.

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2015, 02:15:59 pm »

Thank You very much for help in my problem!
Tomorrow after work, take up the study of the material)

I wonder what caused the problem degrade the sound, since in theory this should be no problem.
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Bitdepth
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Converting from less bits to more bits is perfectly lossless. Conceptually, imagine adding bits like adding zeroes at the end of a decimal. For example, the number "10" might become "10.0" or "10.00" if you add more bits, but all three representations are perfectly identical.

When Media Center inputs data, all audio is first converted to 64bit. This ensures that any processing like digital volume, Replay Gain, or any other DSP (if any is enabled) is done with as much precision as possible. It also puts the data into a format that is efficient for a computer to handle, and makes it so that tracks of varying bitdepths can seamlessly transition.

When outputting data to a soundcard or DAC, the 64bit data is converted back to the format required by hardware. This is often 24bit for high-end DACs.

The transition from 16bit to the output bitdepth (often 24bit) is bit-perfect. Again, it's like "10" vs "10.0".

My PC is just for playing music.
I use self assembled Ubuntu Server 14.10 + Fluxbox. System is very minimalistic. System is tweaked for better music represent. I compiled kernel with rt-patch. The kernel turned out not universal. Just for my platform (Core i5 4440, Z97, 8Gb RAM @1600MHz, M.2 SSD).
In my opinion, the resulting system must ensure the lowest possible latency and have excess computing power.

But why degrade sound quality when converted?
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P.M.

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Re: Why MC increases the bit depth in the "auto mode"?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 10:35:29 pm »

Did as advised Arindelle.
Now MC automatically switches the zone depending on bit depth of playing track.
Many thanks to Arindelle again.

But I still hope that the developers will include output mode without changing the bit depth in the list of settings of output device.
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