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[Magic_Randy]

I've configured PMW to "Delete from handheld any files not in sync list" and it does not appear to work.

I think this is the same issue as on the Mac version of MC20.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=95984.msg661508#msg661508

PMW v20.0.75 for Mac

[Cheezmo]

20.0.83 fixes this for me.

One problem though.  It looks like the sync process adds new files, then deletes the files that should no longer be on the device.

If the device was almost full, that would be a problem.  The deleting should be done first or you will run out of space on an almost full device.

[Magic_Randy]

Thanks...

[abkowijma]

It still does not work for me. I tried both .82 and .83.

I have used a playlist that I already created with earlier versions and an SD card that I filled through syncing in an earlier version. Do you do anything else then removing some files from the playlist and clicking resync for the SD card?

[Cheezmo]

I click "Recheck Sync" on the card, then see that some of the tracks are marked "Delete on Sync" (or something like that).  After the sync they are removed.

I think they need to fix it to delete first as the sync process will try to overfill the card before deleting in cases where there would have been room if they had deleted first.

[Magic_Randy]

I'd have to do more testing, but I don't think it will delete tracks if there are not new tracks to sync.

[abkowijma]

I added some files as well now and indeed had a number of songs listed as going to be removed, but the same songs as going to be added (while they were still on the card). Not syncing and restarting PMW and rechecking again gave results without files marked for removal. It guess there are still problems around syncing.

[Magic_Randy]

I'll do more testing this weekend.

I tested in on 20.0.82 and it worked fine, but in that test I was doing a combination of adding & deleting.

I'm using smartlists. I modified my smartlist to remove things, at the same time my data was changing (content had been added to the library that was included in my smartlist conditions). In that case everything was perfect. My new tracks were added and the things that should have been removed were removed.

My guess is this scenario still works fine in 20.0.83. It is probably not deleting, however, if there are not new tracks to add first.

[Cheezmo]

My guess is this scenario still works fine in 20.0.83. It is probably not deleting, however, if there are not new tracks to add first.

Very possible, in my tests (that worked) I was always adding new tracks also.

And of course, you don't want to add new tracks first, that will break when the card is almost full.  Any sync process should do the deleting first and then the adding. 

[Magic_Randy]

Did some testing. Looks like it works fine.

I did add and delete. That worked.

I did add only. That worked.

I did delete only. That worked.

These tests were using 20.0.83.

My tests were using a 128gb MicroSD. Not internal memory. But the delete function did work for internal memory in a prior test using 20.0.82.

It does look like adds are done before delete. That could be a problem if you are fully utilizing the volume. But I did not do much of testing in this area. It may be in some sequence such as album name or something and not adds before delete. I'd have to do more testing to be sure.

[abkowijma]

I tried again with a new SD card and a new playlist. After loading initial files through syncing I removed some songs and added some new songs. After rechecking it shows the new songs as Queued. Then it lists all songs already on the card as On device and then it list all songs another time (except for the new ones) as Delete on sync ??

Although this looks wrong I synced anyway. After syncing it loaded the new songs and removed everything else ..

Doing recheck another time lists all songs that I had in the new playlist originally as In queue. The newly added songs are listed as On Device and another time as Delete on Sync ??

Syncing again Started copying the In queue items and removed the newly added songs.

So it seems that songs on the device that are in the playlist as well are shown twice, once as On device and once as Delete on Sync. When syncing it removes them so on the next check they are shown as In queue.

One thing I did notice is that items that are listed as On Device never have Artwork displayed, but a Musical note symbol instead. Maybe this plays a role ??

[Magic_Randy]

I tried again with a new SD card and a new playlist. After loading initial files through syncing I removed some songs and added some new songs. After rechecking it shows the new songs as Queued. Then it lists all songs already on the card as On device and then it list all songs another time (except for the new ones) as Delete on sync ??

Although this looks wrong I synced anyway. After syncing it loaded the new songs and removed everything else ..

Doing recheck another time lists all songs that I had in the new playlist originally as In queue. The newly added songs are listed as On Device and another time as Delete on Sync ??

Syncing again Started copying the In queue items and removed the newly added songs.

So it seems that songs on the device that are in the playlist as well are shown twice, once as On device and once as Delete on Sync. When syncing it removes them so on the next check they are shown as In queue.

One thing I did notice is that items that are listed as On Device never have Artwork displayed, but a Musical note symbol instead. Maybe this plays a role ??

What version of PMW are you using?

[abkowijma]

What version of PMW are you using?

20.0.83

[Magic_Randy]

20.0.83

Strange.

All the testing I've done has been with Smartlists, not Playlists, so that may be why our results are different.

Has anyone else been able to make it work with Playlists? Or could something else be coming into the picture?

[Cheezmo]

I use playlists, and convert to flac on sync.  And everything seems to work fine (except for some issues with arist//album/track names that start with "." but they are fixing that).

[abkowijma]

I never included a conversion in sync, but I did try using a smartlist instead (the smartlist filtered for all songs in my original playlist). I had the some problems as with a normal playlist.

[Magic_Randy]

I never included a conversion in sync, but I did try using a smartlist instead (the smartlist filtered for all songs in my original playlist). I had the some problems as with a normal playlist.

I don't think conversions matter.

Try resetting the Pono. Let's see if that helps.

There is not an option to do the reset. But if you change your Theme it forces a reset.

Navigate to Settings, and then to “theme”. That forces a reset.

Edit: After you change the theme to do the reset, you can change the theme back.

[abkowijma]

I don't think conversions matter.

Try resetting the Pono. Let's see if that helps.

There is not an option to do the reset. But if you change your Theme it forces a reset.

Navigate to Settings, and then to “theme”. That forces a reset.

Edit: After you change the theme to do the reset, you can change the theme back.

I have mainly been testing with an SD adapter containing the microSD card that I use in my Pono, so no Pono player involved. Could it be that the problem is related to that?

[Magic_Randy]

I have mainly been testing with an SD adapter containing the microSD card that I use in my Pono, so no Pono player involved. Could it be that the problem is related to that?

I think so.

Try it without the adapter using the Pono Player itself.


EDIT:

Look at Pono Music's "TECH SHEET 06". Here is indicates that the Pono firmware has a database that includes the internal storage plus up to 3 MicroSD cards. This may be what's getting in the way when you try to sync using an adapter.

The"databases"for"the"internal"storage"and"up"to"three"SD"cards"are"cached"by"the"player

You can find the tech sheet @ Communities-->Knowledge. If you can't find it let me know.

[abkowijma]

Try it without the adapter using the Pono Player itself.

Sorry I did not get back yet (different timezone). Heading to work now and not back until tomorrow. I'll let you know the results tomorrow. Still I don't understand how it can make a difference. After syncing to the SD card I can see that it went wrong. Even if it would work from using the Pono player as interface to the SD card I expect the same to happen. Additionally PMW should also be able to sync straight to an SD card. The advantage is that this goes way quicker!
Anyway I'll give it a try tomorrow and will let you know.

[Magic_Randy]

Sorry I did not get back yet (different timezone). Heading to work now and not back until tomorrow. I'll let you know the results tomorrow. Still I don't understand how it can make a difference. After syncing to the SD card I can see that it went wrong. Even if it would work from using the Pono player as interface to the SD card I expect the same to happen. Additionally PMW should also be able to sync straight to an SD card. The advantage is that this goes way quicker!
Anyway I'll give it a try tomorrow and will let you know.

And maybe it has nothing to do with it.

If John T sees this maybe he can weigh in. He would know if it makes any difference if you sync to a MicroSD in an adapter vs using the Pono Player.

[Magic_Randy]

abkowijma,

Please post the device options.

I'm attaching the options for one of my volumes for reference. If I can see your options I may be able to see why you are having a problem.

Randy

[abkowijma]

Please post the device options.

Hi Randy, thanks for all your help! I have exactly the same settings on my end. I did do further testing, and it appears the problem indeed only occurs when I use my build in SD card reader! If I place the same SD card in my PonoPlayer and connect it through USB then syncing, including removal, works perfectly.

The behavior I have seen through the build in SD card reader of my iMac is
- Listing songs that should remain in the sync list twice, once with the remark On device and another time with the remark Delete on Sync. (see ponoproblem.png)
- Listing songs that should go since not in the playlist anymore one time with the remark On device only (see playlistafterremoval.png and syncofplaylistafterremoval.png).

[Magic_Randy]

Hi Randy, thanks for all your help! I have exactly the same settings on my end. I did do further testing, and it appears the problem indeed only occurs when I use my build in SD card reader! If I place the same SD card in my PonoPlayer and connect it through USB then syncing, including removal, works perfectly.

The behavior I have seen through the build in SD card reader of my iMac is
- Listing songs that should remain in the sync list twice, once with the remark On device and another time with the remark Delete on Sync. (see ponoproblem.png)
- Listing songs that should go since not in the playlist anymore one time with the remark On device only (see playlistafterremoval.png and syncofplaylistafterremoval.png).

So that explains it.  Before you spend too much more time on this I'd suggest validating that this use case is supported. My guess is that the supported use case is syncing with the pono player, not with a MicroSD card in an adapter.

JohnT would be able to comment if he sees this.

You could also raise a case with Pono Music and ask them as they agree the features with JRiver of what's supported in PMW.

[abkowijma]

So that explains it.  Before you spend too much more time on this I'd suggest validating that this use case is supported. My guess is that the supported use case is syncing with the pono player, not with a MicroSD card in an adapter.

JohnT would be able to comment if he sees this.

You could also raise a case with Pono Music and ask them as they agree the features with JRiver of what's supported in PMW.

Thanks. I left a comment in the topic announcing the 20.0.83 as well. Imho it's a bug, if PMW offers syncing to internal SD card readers it should not inverse the logic (removing files that should stay and keep files that should go). Since the PonoPlayer only supports USB2 and an internal card reader supports USB3 (depending on your hardware) there is a strong argument in using an internal SD card reader above the PonoPlayer.

[MikeEvangelist]

Since the PonoPlayer only supports USB2 and an internal card reader supports USB3 (depending on your hardware) there is a strong argument in using an internal SD card reader above the PonoPlayer.

Exactly. In my experience the performance of syncing the SD card while it's in the Pono is about one-tenth the speed of doing it in a card reader. I've never seen such slow performance.

[Magic_Randy]

Thanks. I left a comment in the topic announcing the 20.0.83 as well. Imho it's a bug, if PMW offers syncing to internal SD card readers it should not inverse the logic (removing files that should stay and keep files that should go). Since the PonoPlayer only supports USB2 and an internal card reader supports USB3 (depending on your hardware) there is a strong argument in using an internal SD card reader above the PonoPlayer.

I don't disagree