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[nwboater]

I need to have a ninth output channel on our Steinberg 824 DAC. These will be used for L, C, & R (each 2 channel active), Sides & Sub. There was a previous post  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80165.0   about using the Phones or Optical outputs for getting 10 channels out but there were no details mentioned.

It seems that Phones are assigned only to Mix 1-8 and are not usable with DAW outputs. http://gyazo.com/276f4739d6c86b2b1a1374cd4978327c And per the 824 Block Diagram it seems that there are only 8 outputs available in either Mix or DAW. Could this somehow be done using Zones?

I would prefer to use the phones outputs rather than SPDIF Outputs so that I won't need a separate DAC. But I do have an old EMU-0404USB DAC I could use if necessary.

I should probably make a separate post about using AudioLense with the UR824, but since it's use may present a problem for using nine output channels on the UR824 I thought I should mention it here. Might it? I have already purchased AudioLense but have not yet used it.

Any suggestions will sure be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rod

[mwillems]

I'm not sure you could use the phones (or whether you'd want to, they're an amplified output, not a line level output), but I'm pretty sure you can use the two SPDIF outputs as four additional channels to other DACs (and they'll stay in sync).

If you look on the "gear" tab of the Steinberg mixing panel, you'll see that there are up to 16 "DAW" outputs.  I currently have 1-8 of those routed to the analog outputs, but you can route 9/10 to the first SPDIF and 11/12 to the Second SPDIF.  I haven't tried it, but that should work.

[nwboater]

Thanks very much for the prompt response.

When I look at the Gear Tab (good description!) it show ADAT Ouptput A & B. But each of those seem to only route the outputs to DAW 1-8 which is the same 8 channels that are available for Line outs. The Block Diagram also shows only DAW 11-18 (8 channels). Am I missing something here?

Appreciate your comments on not using the phones output. Don't like to send a high level signal to a low level input!


Cheers,
Rod

[mwillems]

Probably easier to show than tell, you want something like shown below.  Note the switch made from ADAT to SPDIF on the left side, and then assigning the DAW channels the way you want.

[nwboater]

Thanks again. I have been trying to do exactly what you have, but for some reason my SPDIF routing boxes only allow the selection of DAW Out 1/2 thru 7/8, the same as for Mix. Mine do not show anything above 7/8. Wonder if there is a setting elsewhere that will enable these higher number channels? I haven't found it.


Cheers,
Rod

[mwillems]

That's weird.  FWIW, attached below are the choices I see when I pull the drop down.  What firmware version are you on?  I'm on 1.5 (a few versions out of date, but everything's working and I didn't want to roll the dice).

I couldn't identify any option that would affect that.  According to the block diagrams you should still have 12 DAW outputs even at 192KHz (unless you're trying to control it with an ipad?)

[nwboater]

Yes it is very weird. I've been trying to get a screenshot of the pull down menu but every time I click to do it the box closes. Anyway there are no channel numbers in the Mix Panel software anywhere I've seen that are higher than 7/8. But if you look at the Block Diagram I linked earlier it shows DAW 11/12 - 17/18 going to ADAT/SPDIF outputs.

Here's my version numbers:  http://gyazo.com/e0ab402b466ecce8c8fcda7f6c019cea

I bought the unit used. Another strange thing is that it will only do 192khz using 2 channels. Any more channels and it only does 96 Khz.


Thanks very much for trying to help. Really appreciate it!

Cheers,
Rod

[mwillems]

Yes it is very weird. I've been trying to get a screenshot of the pull down menu but every time I click to do it the box closes.

I just use the "print screen" key and paste it into paint.

Anyway there are no channel numbers in the Mix Panel software anywhere I've seen that are higher than 7/8. But if you look at the Block Diagram I linked earlier it shows DAW 11/12 - 17/18 going to ADAT/SPDIF outputs.

Here's my version numbers:  http://gyazo.com/e0ab402b466ecce8c8fcda7f6c019cea

I bought the unit used. Another strange thing is that it will only do 192khz using 2 channels. Any more channels and it only does 96 Khz.


Thanks very much for trying to help. Really appreciate it!

Cheers,
Rod

Out of curosity have you tried changing the sample rate it's set to?

If you have a look the block diagrams in the manual on pages 31-33, the blocks are different at different sample rates, and there are a different number of outputs at all sample rates.  I wonder if I see so many outputs because I'm set to 44.1?

http://download.steinberg.net/downloads_hardware/UR824/UR824_documentation/UR824_OperationManual_en.pdf

[nwboater]

I just use the "print screen" key and paste it into paint.

Out of curosity have you tried changing the sample rate it's set to?

If you have a look the block diagrams in the manual on pages 31-33, the blocks are different at different sample rates, and there are a different number of outputs at all sample rates.  I wonder if I see so many outputs because I'm set to 44.1?

http://download.steinberg.net/downloads_hardware/UR824/UR824_documentation/UR824_OperationManual_en.pdf

The Sample Rate setting is the answer! At 44 or 48 I get all the channels, above that I don't! What a bummer! If you get a chance would you mind confirming that you have the same issue above 48?

Wonder if this is related to SPDIF limitations? Also I'm curious why you run at 44? Don't you find any benefit to the higher resolutions?

Thanks again for all your efforts here!

Cheers,
Rod

[mwillems]

The Sample Rate setting is the answer! At 44 or 48 I get all the channels, above that I don't! What a bummer! If you get a chance would you mind confirming that you have the same issue above 48?

I get the same result.  

Wonder if this is related to SPDIF limitations?

If I had to guess it's probably related to the data bandwidth of the Steinberg itself.  I'm sort of surprised you can't lump together the mix outputs and the DAW outputs to get to nine, but I haven't done much experimenting with that.

Also I'm curious why you run at 44? Don't you find any benefit to the higher resolutions?

Basically.  I did some hearing tests, and I can't hear anything above 16KHz at all, and not very much above 14KHz.  There really isn't much music even that high up (some flute harmonics?), and there's virtually no musical sound above 20K.  

But I was open to the idea that the aliasing from the brickwall at 22KHz, might have been audible, so I got a couple high sample rate tracks, and gave a listen.  I can't reliably tell the difference between a 96KHz track played back at 96 vice downsampled to 44.  I may just have a tin ear. Some friends and I did a/b/x testing, and no one in the room could tell which was which with any reliability.  

Folks seem to like it, but my home experiments were enough for me to realize higher res was probably wasted on me.

Thanks again for all your efforts here!

Cheers,
Rod

My pleasure, glad to help.

[mojave]

I just looked at the block diagrams in the user manual again. Here are the limitations:

44.1/48 kHz - 24 DAW outs
88.2/96 kHz - 16 DAW outs
176.4/192 kHz - 12 DAW outs

However, if it is also set to be controlled with the iPad, then you are limited to 8 DAW outs regardless of sample rate.

There shouldn't be a problem using the highest sample rate and up to 12 channels. Note that you have to set your ASIO buffer size to a minimum of 256 samples prior to switching to 176.2/192 kHz.

[mojave]

The ASIO channels in the UR824 are like this:

0 - Mix 1
1 - Mix 2
2 - Mix 3
3 - Mix 4
4 - Mix 5
5 - Mix 6
6 - Mix 7
7 - Mix 8
8 -
9 -
10 - DAW 1
11 - DAW 2
12 - DAW 3
13 - DAW 4
14 - DAW 5
15 - DAW 6
16 - DAW 7
17 - DAW 8

If you want to use the headphones separately from the analog outputs, then you need to do the following:
1.  Set JRiver output to 24 channels and maximum sample rate of 48 kHz
2.  Move Left to Channel 11, Right to Channel 12, etc. to move the first 8 channels to DAW's 1-8
3.  Copy what you need back to Left or Right for headphone output

Set your output routing for DAW output:



I hadn't thought of this before. Since DAW Out 1/2 doesn't start until ASIO channel 10 (which is really the 11th channel since ASIO starts with 0), you can never use higher than 48 kHz if output routing is set for DAW Output. If you set output routing to Mix 1/2, etc, then you should be able to use up to 192 kHz for all 8 analog outputs.

[nwboater]

I just looked at the block diagrams in the user manual again. Here are the limitations:

44.1/48 kHz - 24 DAW outs
88.2/96 kHz - 16 DAW outs
176.4/192 kHz - 12 DAW outs

However, if it is also set to be controlled with the iPad, then you are limited to 8 DAW outs regardless of sample rate.

There shouldn't be a problem using the highest sample rate and up to 12 channels. Note that you have to set your ASIO buffer size to a minimum of 256 samples prior to switching to 176.2/192 kHz.

Unfortunately the limitations shown in the block diagram are not what I am experiencing.

Here is what I get, and I have tried Buffer Size all the way up to 4096, and setting buffer size before setting sample rate:

44.1/48 kHz - 16 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs
88.2/96 kHz - 8 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs
176.4/192 kHz - 2 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs

This is a very strange discrepancy between what the Block Diagram shows and what I get. Any idea what else might affect this?

If someone else with a UR824 could check these results on their unit I would really appreciate it. Just want to be sure I don't have some kind of 'cockpit error' here.

Thanks,
Rod

[mwillems]

Unfortunately the limitations shown in the block diagram are not what I am experiencing.

Here is what I get, and I have tried Buffer Size all the way up to 4096, and setting buffer size before setting sample rate:

44.1/48 kHz - 16 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs
88.2/96 kHz - 8 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs
176.4/192 kHz - 2 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs

This is a very strange discrepancy between what the Block Diagram shows and what I get. Any idea what else might affect this?

If someone else with a UR824 could check these results on their unit I would really appreciate it. Just want to be sure I don't have some kind of 'cockpit error' here.

Thanks,
Rod

The mix outputs are being counted as "DAW" outputs in the block diagram.  So you should have 24 outs at 44 (which you do), 16 outs at 96 (which you do), and 12 outs at 192 (which you don't). 

I just checked and neither do I (I get the same numbers as you do).   Although as mojave noted, if you choose the correct channel offset, you should be able to get 9 channel working even with 192 because channels 8 and 9 are blank. 

Using mojave's graph, if I set channel offset to zero and try 12 channel output in JRiver to the Steinberg at 192KHz it plays and does not give me any errors.  I didn't test whether sound was coming out and on which channels as I didn't want to mess up my routing, but if it doesn't error out there's likely a way to get it to work.

[mojave]

176.4/192 kHz - 2 DAW outs, 8 Mix Outputs

This is 12 channels, which is what the block diagram shows. With an offset of 0, this is how they are used:
0-7 for the mix output
10-11 for the DAW outputs
8-9 for Direct out

So, ASIO channels 0-11 are in use. This can be confirmed by opening REW and selecting the UR824 as an ASIO device. It will then show the channels that are currently available. Now I can't remember if REW supports 192 kHz. Maybe you can't check.

I believe the Direct Out channels are used by some DAW software for bypassing any DSP. These end up being combined with other mix channels in the UR824.

Using mojave's graph, if I set channel offset to zero and try 12 channel output in JRiver to the Steinberg at 192KHz it plays and does not give me any errors.

Yes, I think this is confirmation that it works. Can you try setting the offset to 10 and keeping 12 channel output in JRiver and see if it still works?

[mwillems]

Yes, I think this is confirmation that it works. Can you try setting the offset to 10 and keeping 12 channel output in JRiver and see if it still works?

I'll test again tonight, but my recollection is that it did not work.  I think that was Rod's experience as well.