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[HTPC4ME]

any one else experiencing missing thumbs?

on version .93 (JRiver Server on server 2008...no updates or changes)
avi's, mov's, wmv's if i right click rebuild thumb nothing happens... they never regenerate/rebuild.

[HTPC4ME]

bump

[HTPC4ME]

thumbs still broke for us on version .100

[jmone]

FYI - I don't get thumbnails for:
- MOV Containers with MJPEG or h264 video streams
- a few random AVI (mjpeg) but most are fine

One way of "fixing" them is to play each one then, pause it, then Right Click --> Windows --> Use Screen Grab for Thumbnail. (make sure you refresh your view to see that he has been applied if it at first does not appear)

Issue is if you have alot then it will be time consuming. 

It may also be due to some difference in Win Server to Win Desktop if you have a heap.

Thanks
Nathan

[HTPC4ME]

yeah not sure whats going...they all were there up until a few weeks ago... been using server 2008 for about 5 yrs now with no problems.

Upon running your test. the thumbnail rebuilds, if i click on tag/image i can see the thumb, however if i go back to home videos, refresh again, the thumbnail does not show up(i view all files in thumbnail view) but if i move my mouse over the top of it, then it will show the thumb.

*After about a minute or two the thumb i screen grabbed did end up showing in home videos...took some time.


To be honest doing this to thousands of files just isnt feasible.
we have many home videos, and motion clips we've purchased for video editing in our library. this would take a LONGGG time.

[Hendrik]

Try in the Options -> Tree & View -> Build missing Thumbnails, that will build all thumbnails in the background, no need to manually refresh every view.

[HTPC4ME]

Hendrik, I think she's broke... Just for Home Videos i have 3098 files, and the second i click on Build Missing thumbnails, instantly near tag dialog (bottom left/standard view) it says complete - 0:00 (tried multiple times.)

[HTPC4ME]

Just tried on the same server (Server 2008 R2) But tried my other JRiver server which is on Hyper V, and that does the same thing, upon clicking on build thumbnails, and clicking yes, instantly it pops up as complete 0:00.

[Hendrik]

Maybe try the clear thumbnails button first to force a rebuild?

[jmone]

FYI - there are just some that won't build a Thumbnail no matter what you do (except by doing the Screen Grab option).  If you need a sample, I can upload one to drop box etc

[jmone]

I've found a pattern.  For me the ones without thumbnails are really short (sub 5 sec).  I seem to remember that MC grabs thumbs from 5-seconds in?

[tls62dk]

I am seeing some of the same. For me it is MTS files (Home video). They were never a problem to rebuild before. They are all longer than 5 seconds. I am on Windows 7 64 bit.

[tls62dk]

Jmone's workaround with playing the file and getting a screen grab that way works, but it takes roughly 30 seconds for the thumb to appear not matter how much a refresh the view.

I have to many files to play one at a time.

[HTPC4ME]

just checked my files, and mine too are all different sizes/types/lengths.

out of curiosity tls62dk did you try

Try in the Options -> Tree & View -> Build missing Thumbnails, that will build all thumbnails in the background, no need to manually refresh every view.

does it rebuild for you? or instantly just state complete?

i have over a million files, so little leery on clearing them and having to wait a few days for them to rebuild, especially since its the weekend.

[tls62dk]

I did just now. It took less than 30 seconds, but didn't change anything. My MTS files still don't have a Thumb.

[HTPC4ME]

well i took Hendrik's advice on our smaller library.
I first erased all thumbnails (tools/options/tree & view/ Thumbnails/Erase thumbs)
And then after complete i went to same location and chose build missing thumbnails, it then brought up the dialog in bottom left Build thumbnails its now at Building thumbnails 365 of 125011

Let you know what happens, and how long it took. (if it seems to fix the problem, then i'll try our main library.)
it's building is very inconsistent... some files it just fly's through and then it will stop and hang on a file or 3 for sometimes 30 seconds to a minute. but it does continue on. (so far)

[tls62dk]

I was a little afraid to do that. I am looking forward to hear how that went for you.

[HTPC4ME]

i just checked it 15 minutes ago, and it was at 563 of 125011, and now it just flipped over to 564
i cannot image doing this on a million some files.

[HTPC4ME]

3 hours later... and it's at 586

[locust]

Normally I have Capture video thumbnails set at 40 seconds. For some reason I can't figure out, if the video clip length is below this threshold, they won't build. What are the length of your clips?

Could it be a broken codec? Try Options > File Types, then select each format and change the playback method from Automatic to perhaps Windows media player engine or another and try and build again.

Maybe the Codec tweak tool from the K-lite codec pack may help.

[jmone]

MC does not use direct show merits to do it's thing.  A codec tweak tool will not help.  I'm not sure what will through.....

[tls62dk]

I can't get it to rebuild the MTS files from my camera. I am sure it worked not that long ago. I don't think it's a codec thing either. The files play just fine.

When I grab a thumb while playing the file, it creates a jpg file next to the video file. This does not happen when I click a file in my Library and choose Rebuild Thumbnail. Does anybody know where it is supposed to be stored? In a cache somewhere?

[JimH]

If the files are coming across a network, it will be slow.   A direct connection would be faster, but may not be possible.

[HTPC4ME]

well it's now been over 24 hours, and im only at 621 of 125011 of rebuilding

[HTPC4ME]

only at 1502 of 125011

Any suggestions?

[CountryBumkin]

It took 24 hours to rebuild 620 thumbnails (that's 25.8/hr)! Clearly something is wrong. Where is the data being rebuilt from (a NAS)?
If it were me, I would cancel the rebuilding process and figure out a different means. It's going to take you like 4,800 hours to finish at the rate your going.

[HTPC4ME]

I would cancel the rebuilding process and figure out a different means. It's going to take you like 4,800 hours to finish at the rate your going.

and thats my small library.

both libraries are on windows server 2008, 1 on main os, one in hyper/virtual os. both libraries built thumbs with no problems up until a few versions ago. (both libraries been going strong for over 5 years) both libraries get their data from nas which is hardwired to the server 2008 all drives unc.

no clue whats going on... everything else works great, just thumbs missing in jriver. (the thumbs show in server 2008 explorer... if i right click non thumb file in jriver/on disk external the thumbs are embedded in the videos. (all of them) which leads me to believe it's not my system, but a jriver bug?

Im not going to chance clearing thumbs on large library until i know it's fixed.

i just cancelled the thumb building on small library. the cancel button greyed out, but still states building thumbs. (that disappeared after about 2 minutes)

would a log help to distinguish if it's me or jriver itself? perhaps i could clear log, then re-nable log then try to build thumbs for few hours, then send log?

[JimH]

As I said above ...

If the files are coming across a network, it will be slow.   A direct connection would be faster, but may not be possible.

[CountryBumkin]

Are you rebuilding the thumbnails and re-analyzing the audio? That would take some time.
Could you be downloading new thumbs from an internet source rather than rebuilding the ones already on your system?

[HTPC4ME]

i read your comment in it's entirety (as i always do)

however, with all do respect that does not mean i totally agree with you... AGAIN, ive had the libraries on server 2008 r2 for over 5 years.
and being im a loyal customer, ( ive purchased multiple things from you guys EVERY year) means that the thumbs would have had to been rebuilt automatically upon each versions upgrade, if not.. then my jriver installs in home and friends locations are special, because every version upgrade when ive done an auto import it has rebuilt all thumbs. and yes its a BIT slower, it NEVER took weeks and above all they did eventually rebuild ... in fact if you do a search back to version 9, 10 11. you will find posts from me claiming i had over 200,000 files and the thumb updating was taking about 3-5 days tops. ( i cannot recall precisely the amount of days, and im not going to search for it, the proof is in your forums)

im not really understanding why you are reiterating this when ive tried to go into great detail about the issue? it may not be jriver at all, but something is def messed up over here.

it also does not explain why when right clicking any of these files with thumbs missing why they never regenerate unless you follow jmone's steps... which was never the case either (even though files have been on network) and i know it was never the case because i just did a search for thumbnails in my images (in my library under images) and there is only one, and that is the screengrab Jmone suggested.

i dont know what else i can say except i agree with countrybumpkin, why run the tool if it's going to take years?

there is either something messed up with my 2 libraries, or something within the program itself.

Ive now went to every PC/Regedit to verify thumbnail location... all pc's EXCEPT server Main library (due to size) save thumbs in default path ( [Application Data Path]Thumbnails\) And the server main library is saving them to where they were always saved/last 5 years (network drive/proof in screen below), and the additional library on server/virtual is saving them in jrivers default path. ([Application Data Path]Thumbnails\) so nothing seems to be over writing, and everything is set as it always has been.

I've also verified that thumbs location on main library & second library (virtual) have read/write for their thumbnail locations. (which they do, and i've never changed).

on the main library it does look as if they are being modified/accessed (however notice the gap in years?)

Are you rebuilding the thumbnails and re-analyzing the audio? That would take some time.

on my small library i went to tools/options/tree&view/thumbnails, and had chosen erase all thumbs (i then went to application path to verify they were gone) then i went to tools/options/tree&view/thumbnails, rebuild thumbs... and those speed results are above, i've also since cancelling the rebuilding of the small library, right clicked one of the files with no thumb in jriver (again thumb shows in explorer) and chose rebuild thumb. it works for awhile, but never shows the thumb, if iclick on tag, image, i can see a string for the image. but it's all code talk to me.

Could you be downloading new thumbs from an internet source rather than rebuilding the ones already on your system?

I really don't think so, due to steps taken above... these are thumbs that have been in the library for years (work files, home files), up until a few versions back, i did not have 1 missing thumb. now many.

[glynor]

It looks like you have your Media Center Library on a network volume!!

You cannot have your Media Center Library on a network volume. It makes MC very unhappy, and trashes performance. Your MC library must be on a fast, local disk, for acceptable performance.  SSDs are best if you have one.

Read:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Network_and_Slow_Storage

EDIT: If you're doing this regularly, it probably explains your other performance and odd behavior problems I've seen from time to time. I sometimes load my main Library from a network volume (using my Laptop to tweak Media Views on my main Server's Library, for example).  But this is very much a maintenance mode thing, and I do it with the expectation that I should get in, do what I need to do, and get out.

If your Library is small (such as a transient-only "ripping" Library) you might be able to pull it off and be okay.  But if you're trying to load your main Library off of a network volume, you're asking for a bag of hurt.  You can't.  I get that you might want to for reasons A, B, and C, but you cannot, so you have to find a different way.

The Library itself is tiny, so disk space is not a concern.  Mine is 70MB and I have a 140k file media library.

[HTPC4ME]

Glynor, i was honestly REALLY hoping you were right :S (due to, as you mentioned some of the more odd problems i've had)

looks like library is local


And my thumbs are located here (i had to move them from ssd Os due to size) i had asked about this in the past, and many said it was ok to do, is this maybe not the case anymore?


Perhaps you could look through my main libraries file locations... maybe you will spot something suspicious (or something i could improve upon?)

thank you
P.S my comment prior about checking if the thumb location was read/write didnt make much sense i guess, for if i could erase thumbs in jriver it's obviously open. lol

[JimH]

Glynor, i was honestly REALLY hoping you were right :S (due to, as you mentioned some of the more odd problems i've had)

glynor is almost always right.  His batting average is about twice mine.

[glynor]

If it is just the thumbs, then you can do it, but I'd strongly recommend not storing them on a network drive if at all possible.  The faster you can access that, the faster your copy of MC will browse through any view that shows the thumbnails (so the SSD would certainly be preferred).

But, a decently fast local spinning disk would be fine too.  A network drive risks issues, and you're having issues with Thumbnails.

* If two copies of MC try to access the same files at the same time (this probably wouldn't happen unless you did it poorly) terrible, mean nasty things will happen.
* Slowness.  You know, when building thumbs and browsing thumbnail-heavy views.  The more thumbnail heavy your Library?  Yeah. The bigger those thumbnail cache files are, the longer it'll take to transfer them across the network.
* If the network drive disconnects, even for a second or three, mid-write to the thumbnail caches, this is an uncorrectable write failure (the drive is just gone with the file half-way written). Bad things, like what you have here, could happen.
* Latency will kill performance. Networks, especially with most consumer grade switches and routers, can have relatively large latency swings depending on traffic on the LAN at any given moment. SAN devices often have even more variable latency depending on usage.
* Do you have the media files stored on the same network volume or device?  Then, the disks are going to be even higher latency and lower performing.

So... Unlike with the Library itself, I'm not willing to say 100% that you cannot store a thumbnail cache on a network drive.  However, would I try to avoid it?  Absolutely.

If you're having trouble with performance (or especially with things related to thumbnails)?  Yeah, probably not a good idea.

Maybe some network volumes with some libraries and some usage patterns can handle it?  Yep. Some probably can.  Can everyone?  Nope.

If you want to sync Thumbnails between multiple copies of MC which all use the same Library (this itself is probably a "bad idea"), you could do it with something like GoodSync or SyncBack SE, and still keep them all on local drives.

Or, you know, buy a bigger SSD.  They're pretty cheap now if you haven't looked.  I saw a 500GB Crucial on Newegg last weekend for like $239 (not the zippiest on the block, but all SSDs are unbelievably fast and are all pretty close to one another in real usage).