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Author Topic: 5.1 channels inside 10 channel container,output channel mapping, combining cards  (Read 2423 times)

mrvip

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I am a paid user and preordered version 21 just to support it, because this is a really great piece of software.

Now there are the problems I am facing:

I have a 10 channel card and I can't figure out how to use output format of 5.1 channels inside 10 channel container. I need all sources (up or down)mixed to 5.1 and then to use the other 4 channels for active XO and/or multiple subwoofers with different delay and EQ.

I think separating the number of channels and the size of the container on two different combo boxes would be a good idea.

Another problem I have on a different card is with creative asio, which not only swaps center/sub with surrounds, which is solvable by a check box in JRiver, but also puts some stupid pseudo channels between the surrounds and the rears, so RL and RR channels are #9 and #10 instead of #7 and #8. I can solve that with parametric EQ, but i think a cleaner solution would be a channel matrix dialog in the output device setting, so you can choose which channel goes where.

A third problem - many onboard realtek cards have 10 independent channels, grouped as 7.1+2 on two devices, all with the same clock. The first 8 channels are exposed as one card, and the other 2 as another. JRiver can't combine them. I use ASIO4ALL to do this and then I can use all 10 channels in JRiver, but I think this is unneeded workaraound, if a native solution is implemented. The same goes for cards with say analog and digital outputs (almost any card), which can play different streams simultaneously. There are scenarios where one can use them as additional channels for active XO, and/or multiple subwoofers with different delays and EQ if they can be combined. I'd say that going furhter and having the option to combine different cheap cards into a multichannel output device would be great, because cards with more than 7.1 channels are too expensive. I think i read on the forum different clocks are a problem in this case, but somehow ASIO4ALL can overcome that, so I guess JRiver can do too :)
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mwillems

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Re: 5.1 channels inside 10 channel container
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2015, 05:22:47 pm »

There is no default setting to do 5.1 in a 10 channel container.  The current "10 channel" setting is actually "7.1 in a 10 channel container." 

The secret to doing what you want is to set output format to 10 channels, and then do a custom downmix of the rear channels in parametric equalizer.  It could be as simple as adding the rears to the surrounds with appropriate attenuation to both. 

I can provide more specific thoughts if that would be helpful, but your case is actually one of the easier ones to "workaround"
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mrvip

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Re: 5.1 channels inside 10 channel container, output channel mapping
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2015, 05:37:04 pm »

I've made a monstorous edit of my original post before reading yours, please check it :)

I know I can do what you say, but it's not as clean as decoupling the channels from the container and i wonder if my manual downmixing would be as good as JRSS(tm) one. Same goes for my other questions i've added to my original post. Workarounds instead of the right thing always bother me and create other problems.
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mwillems

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Re: 5.1 channels inside 10 channel container, output channel mapping
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 06:03:19 pm »

I've made a monstorous edit of my original post before reading yours, please check it :)

I know I can do what you say, but it's not as clean as decoupling the channels from the container and i wonder if my manual downmixing would be as good as JRSS(tm) one. Same goes for my other questions i've added to my original post. Workarounds instead of the right thing always bother me and create other problems.

I understand what you're saying; my point is there is no "right thing" for this configuration with current settings.  I don't work for JRiver, I'm just a user like you, so I was suggesting how to do what you'd like right now with the currently available settings.

I think separating the number of channels and the size of the container on two different combo boxes would be a good idea.

I agree and have requested the same in the past.  It would be nice for a lot of reasons.

Quote
The same goes for cards with say analog and digital outputs (almost any card), which can play different streams simultaneously. There are scenarios where one can use them as additional channels for active XO, and/or multiple subwoofers with different delays and EQ if they can be combined.

Many cards with ASIO outputs do already expose all of their channels this way and you can access them using channel offsets.  My Steinberg for example does exactly that (I can access all analog and digital channel outputs at once).  I'm not sure how feasible it would be for JRiver to group channels from devices that present as different devices, but if they truly share a clock, you should be able to aggregate them with zone-link. But perhaps one of the devs can perhaps comment.

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I'd say that going further and having the option to combine different cheap cards into a multichannel output device would be great, because cards with more than 7.1 channels are too expensive. I think i read on the forum different clocks are a problem in this case, but somehow ASIO4ALL can overcome that, so I guess JRiver can do too :)

ASIO4ALL can't actually overcome it.  I have several cheap DACs that I've tried to aggregate and use as one multi-channel source using a variety of methods including ASIO4ALL.  The sync was never right for very long, and ASIO4All was worse than some methods with regard to sync.  

Some cards with a certain kind of interface will stay synced if hooked to the same USB port, and if you find those cards, ASIO4ALL will work, but so would JRiver's zone linking functionality.  It's hard to know without trying the cards, but there's no guarantee without having an actual clock sync (ask me how I know).  
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