Topic: Crashes when scrolling lists in Theatre View (Read 15436 times)

albold · « **on:** August 11, 2015, 02:19:56 am »

since installing MC21 i am having trouble with scrolling through playlists in theatre view, it cause a freeze though music still continues to play music from the list. Also when playing a video file there is a large amount of stuttering making it unwatchable. Anybody have a clue why? With the same settings/ plugins etc there was no problem in MC20.

BradATIMA · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2015, 04:12:01 pm »

You could try looking through the following topic to see if any of these solutions will help.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24031.0

If these don't work, you could try posting more information about the problem. Could you try enabling logging, reproducing the problem, and then posting the report here?

Antoine. · « **Reply #2 on:** September 18, 2015, 07:26:57 am »

Hello everyone,

Exact same problem here.

I'm running MC21 with Red October HQ (upgraded from MC20) on Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bits (Hardware, see signature, all drivers up to date). When I'm browsing a list quickly in Theather view, the software almost invariably freezes, but does not crash. Thus, I can still exit the theather view and go back at it. But it is a pain.

Antoine

Boltron · « **Reply #3 on:** September 18, 2015, 08:49:01 am »

It's been happening to me too for a long time with v20 and now v21.

BradATIMA · « **Reply #4 on:** September 18, 2015, 09:10:28 am »

First of all, I just want to be sure that everyone has taken a look at this thread.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24031.0

An anti-virus program could cause an issue like this.

We have been trying to reproduce this issue for a while, with no success. Could one person having this problem volunteer and e-mail me a zip file of their library and include an explanation of what triggers this hang (as detailed as possible, please). My e-mail is brad at jriver dot com.

Hendrik · « **Reply #5 on:** September 18, 2015, 09:21:47 am »

I've seen this as well, started some time at the end of MC20 already. Should investigate..
Unfortunately its somewhat rare, and only happened occasionally on my HTPC. Interesting enough, when it happens just Theater View is stuck, switching out of Theater View still works, and back in as well, at which point its magically fixed.

Antoine. · « **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2015, 01:22:23 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on September 18, 2015, 09:21:47 am

I've seen this as well, started some time at the end of MC20 already. Should investigate..
Unfortunately its somewhat rare, and only happened occasionally on my HTPC. Interesting enough, when it happens just Theater View is stuck, switching out of Theater View still works, and back in as well, at which point its magically fixed.

Yes, that's exactly it.
Also: not a rare occurence with my setup, it happens soon enough when I'm browsing a list large enough.

Temeryx · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2015, 01:25:22 pm »

I have had this issue since since late in the MC20 cycle as well. From a little testing I have done it seems to happen with certain Nvidia hardware. I have seen the problem on two computers with a 560 ti in them and one that had a 660 ti. I could never get theater view to freeze on my laptop with standard intel graphics, or a computer with an older Nvidia 280 card in it. Also, I just update my desktop computer to a Geforce 980 a few days ago and since then theater view has not frozen. With a 560 ti it would freeze every time I held an arrow key down to scroll through a grid view. It could freeze randomly as well even if I did not hold the button down. None of the computers had anti-virus software, and I have continued to update the graphic drivers soon as the newest one comes out.

With my HTPC I just programmed one button to go to standard view, and one goes back to theater view. If it freezes click to go to standard view, and then click back to theater view and it is fine until it randomly freezes again.

I hope that might help a little.

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2015, 01:36:08 pm »

Thanks for the nice report.

Boltron · « **Reply #9 on:** September 18, 2015, 07:23:01 pm »

If it helps I also have nvidia, a GTX 660ti.

thecrow · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2015, 06:07:20 am »

I too have had this issue regularly for a while. Theatre View, scrolling music tracks in an album, the display freezes but I find pressing Start and then back will recover it for me. Interestingly if while frozen I press other buttons before Start and Back then they do appear to have been acted upon, so it is just the graphics display that is frozen and not the interface as such.
~~Only~~ have the problem on my HTPC with nVidia 750Ti, ~~no issues on laptop with nVidia Quadro 1000M~~.
~~Additionally I tend to sleep my HTPC rather than turning it off and I suspect the issue may not occur as much when the system is booted fresh rather than awoke from sleep~~.
I have suspected my graphics driver but it has been updated numerous times since I started having this issue and all stress tests I run on my graphics card pass without problems.

Hendrik · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2015, 03:59:56 am »

There are potential improvements coming in 21.0.9, please do test once this build is available and hopefully it helps!

Antoine. · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2015, 04:31:41 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on September 22, 2015, 03:59:56 am

There are potential improvements coming in 21.0.9, please do test once this build is available and hopefully it helps!

After 10 min. of testing it, the problem manifested itself significantly less. But it stills appeared when I browsed long lists. And weirdly, when it reappeared, it happened more afterwards.

Antoine

thecrow · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2015, 04:33:02 am »

Sorry to say my particular problem is not fixed by this update

Hendrik · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2015, 08:28:50 am »

There is another change coming in the next build which didn't make this one yet. If that also doesn't help, then I may have been on the wrong path. But we'll see.

Antoine. · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2015, 06:58:53 am »

For information, I still encountered the problem with the latest version.

Antoine

GaryM · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2015, 09:42:21 pm »

I see mention of Nvidia in this thread.

Since updating my Nvidia drivers to the latest on my Windows 7 install, with MC 20 and now subsequently on a freshly installed Windows 10 (same machine) with antivirus disabled, firewall turned off, clean install of Nvidia's latest (after Guru3D DDU utility run to ensure there were no traces of Nvidia before a clean driver install). Now MC 21... I'm regularly getting an Nvidia Kernel failed message, and driver restart. It requires me to exit MC and restart it before continuing. It can happen just starting MC after boot, or during movie watching, or not at all. Its random.

JackDiesel · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2015, 02:15:53 am »

I recently upgraded my HTPC and my video card changed from an Nvidia to AMD. With Nvidia and W10 I was getting the crashes while scrolling, with AMD and W10 I haven't had any issues. Seems like it's related to Nvidia.

thecrow · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2015, 08:45:22 am »

Been using the latest version 21.0.11 and the issue is very much still there.
To correct my previous post I see the problem after a cold boot as well as when resuming from sleep and I do also see it on my laptop with NVidia GPU now.
This problem is very frequent for me, so if there is anything you want me to test to diagnose the issue I am happy to help.

wer · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2015, 01:33:29 pm »

Is anyone with an AMD video card having these issues, or is it only Nvidia? All the people who have the problem seem to have mentioned Nvidia. I have AMD and have not experienced this problem.

Hendrik · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2015, 01:38:43 pm »

It looks like the NVIDIA driver has a profile for Media Center, unfortunately their profile is only for MC20, not for MC21, so it doesn't work anymore.
If you are comfortable with it, you could try the "nvidiaInspector" tool, and adjust the Media Center 20 profile so it also works for Media Center 21 (find and edit the profile to include "Media Center 21.exe", that may explain why the problem started after the upgrade for many people.

The profile is named "J River Media Center 20", you can edit it with nvidiaInspector and add a second executable to it (using the "add application to profile" button)

I'm not sure if this will really help, as the problem is rather intermittent for me, however.

I'm still trying to understand why it happens, but it just locks up in the driver somewhere. Maybe I should try to build a work-around instead that tries to detect and recover this situation.

thecrow · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2015, 02:14:20 pm »

I will give nvidiaInspector a go, but I was experiencing this problem with MC20 too.

thecrow · « **Reply #22 on:** October 15, 2015, 03:14:34 pm »

Just tried adding MC21 with the nvidiaInspector as suggested (using MC 21.0.15) and the problem is still there.

jrkp55 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 16, 2015, 10:28:54 am »

Hello JRiver Developers,

Can someone address this issue (finally)? We are at version 21 and still old problems seems like. What is a point of releasing 21 when issues present in earlier versions are being carried over and over again. This is very frustrating. I am long term Microsoft Media Center user and never in my life had issues like this. Playback was always flawless. Now since I am trying MC21 (maybe for a month) I am having this issue when playing playlists and albums. Simply JR is losing sync between what is being played and what album art is being displayed. Another words, playback continues whereas the UI freezes and is not being updated - gets stuck on a specific album art, sliders don't update anymore and remote does not work anymore.

The only solutions is to some how exit the Theater View and restart it.

This needs to be fixed. Please. Stop adding features. Make the product stable first at once.

Thanks.

JimH · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2015, 10:46:52 am »

A crash just scrolling is most likely to be a video driver problem. MC uses 3D drawing in Theater View.

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** November 16, 2015, 12:46:42 pm »

Quote from: wer on October 13, 2015, 01:33:29 pm

Is anyone with an AMD video card having these issues, or is it only Nvidia? All the people who have the problem seem to have mentioned Nvidia. I have AMD and have not experienced this problem.

I have three systems with AMD cards and none exhibit this behavior. Nor does my Intel GPU based system (or any of my Macs, though that's a different beast).

I also have one system that has an GTX 7800 that runs and plays video 24/7 and it has not exhibited this behavior. The nvidia driver on it is probably old, though (the video card certainly is). It is rock-solid stable, though. Only time it stops playing is when I update the build on MC, or to reboot it for Windows Updates.

thecrow · « **Reply #26 on:** November 17, 2015, 03:35:21 am »

Both my systems have nVidia cards.
Both with constantly up to date drivers.
Both show this issue within minutes every time I use them and have done since late MC20 builds and through numerous nVidia driver versions.
No other programs have issues and all GPU tests I've run pass OK.
What is the solution then?
Don't use JRiver if you have a modern nVidia card or is there something else we can do?
Can we optionally disable MC21's 3D drawing?

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** November 17, 2015, 06:19:17 am »

An up to date driver isn't necessarily a good one.

A bug in a driver may only appear under a certain set of circumstances. It could be triggered by just a single program.

You can't disable 3D drawing in MC.

Hendrik · « **Reply #28 on:** November 17, 2015, 07:23:00 am »

From the way it does freeze, it indeed looks like a driver bug, or a conflict between something we do and something in the driver.
I tried to workaround the issue in multiple ways, unfortunately none of the changes resolved the problem. The NVIDIA driver of course doesn't tell us whats wrong, it just gets stuck drawing one image. It gets unstuck when you close the D3D device, thats why going to Standard View and back resolves it.

Like I mentioned before, I considered adding a "timeout" condition that then closes the devices and re-creates it, but that sounds easier to do than it actually is, and would still be a bit disruptive.

We have some more long-term plans for Theater View that could help here, but in the short term we're stuck on the driver not doing what the D3D documentation says it should be doing.
Trying different driver versions could help - many people say it started in a "late MC20" build, but I'm not quite sure what we would've changed in that timeframe, or if maybe an NVIDIA driver update around that time would've maybe caused the trouble to start.

thecrow · « **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2015, 08:10:51 am »

I bought a new nVidia GT750Ti a while back to run with MC20 and I don't think I had this problem at that time.
It only appeared later, so I will try going back to the driver that came with the card and see if that makes a difference.

thecrow · « **Reply #30 on:** November 18, 2015, 02:57:38 pm »

Gone back to using nVidia driver 347.88 (9.18.13.4788) from 13/03/15 (or 03/13/15 for the Americans)
And so far after two days it's looking good, despite trying to provoke it, I've had no crashes, where before I could guarantee a crash within minutes.
Will continue with this version for a few more days then try upgrading until it starts crashing again.

thecrow · « **Reply #31 on:** November 25, 2015, 08:27:42 am »

OK been running nVidia driver 347.88 on Windows 8.1 for a week and despite trying to provoke the issue I have had no problems at all.
So upgraded to 350.12, the next release I could find, and the problem manifested itself within 5 mins and reoccurred a further two times within 10 mins.
Downgraded back to 347.88 and everything OK again.
So my problem appears to be due to a change nVidia made in their drivers between 347.88 and 350.12 which reacts badly with MC in Theatre View.
I would be interested to know if other with this issue agree with my findings, although it don't think this driver will work with Windows 10.

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** November 25, 2015, 08:45:08 am »

It would be good to report that to Nvidia. We would provide software for testing.

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** December 30, 2015, 08:13:56 am »

Another similar problem

flac.rules · « **Reply #34 on:** December 30, 2015, 08:38:53 am »

Would it be an idea to change the "solved by"-text? If I am not misreading or missing anything, it seems like nobody solved by upgrading, only by downgrading to 347.88? So maybe change the text to reflect that?

thecrow · « **Reply #35 on:** December 30, 2015, 09:55:27 am »

I was going to reply to the other recent thread, linked above, but it has been locked.
Regarding reporting the nVidia driver bug to them.
Would it not make more sense for JRiver to report the issue to nVidia, as you have a definitive insight into what the issue is.
As users we have little idea what the actual problem is.

Hendrik · « **Reply #36 on:** February 09, 2016, 03:35:31 pm »

There is a workaround in the upcoming 21.0.46 that seems to work for me in some cases that caused a freeze before. Theater View will still occasionally freeze, but only for a second or so until it unfreezes again.
I can't be 100% certain that its always the same reason for such a freeze, but at least for the one that (rarely) happened on my HTPC, it seems to work.

Castius · « **Reply #37 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:11:54 am »

I'm looking forward to testing this. As i'm have the same issues. (updated drivers did not help)

Antoine. · « **Reply #38 on:** February 11, 2016, 08:54:56 am »

I used to have this problem and it hasn't surfaced in a while. Doesn't know what changed, but it seems to work

Castius · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2016, 02:54:19 am »

This is still a problem in 21.0.48

All i have to do is move my mouse point over the list and eventually it will hang.
But i can still use the esc key twice to leave theater view.

JimH · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2016, 06:34:06 am »

Can you get a log?

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Crashes when scrolling lists in Theatre View (Read 15436 times)