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[JimH]

Is Media Center 10.0 ready?  

Are there any showstopper bugs left?  We'd like to release it soon.

Thanks for your help finding problems.

[LonWar]

Umm well the handheld part isn't really workin that great... And it really needs to be tuned, as it doesn't work that fast....

If you look at the diff between 9 and 9.1 its huge, look between 9.1 and 10 and... well umm Is that it?

[ConTrail]

How about the "back" buttons to get to your last position in the library? Are these buttons coming back?

Edit: Ok, just found the magic backspace button.. Just ignore this post:)

[JimH]

Umm well the handheld part isn't really workin that great... And it really needs to be tuned, as it doesn't work that fast....

We know about it and it will be right before we ship.

[JimH]

The back buttons are there.  At the top left of the content window.

You can also add them by using the customize toolbar option.  Right click on the top of the screen.

[dragyn]

>>If you look at the diff between 9 and 9.1 its huge, look between 9.1 and 10 and... well umm Is that it?

Since 12/03/03 up until now (10.0.72), there have been total of 65 builds (17 not released and 2 pulled due to problems) ... 49 NEW features, 163 Changed items, and 208 Fixes. I have the complete list if anyone is interested.

I think they have come a long way. There a few areas for me that I would liked changed. I'll get to that later..maybe.

[BullishDad]

Why is it in 10 whenever you go from Standard View to Theatre View, you are presented a menu?  In MC 9.1 if I was in Playing Now(Std View), then I'd remain in Playing Now (Theatre View).

Even using the Windows Menu key from Full Screen will take you to the Theatre View menu screen the first time.

I like to switch the view at times, but I don't want to navigate thru the Theatre View menu to just to get back to Playing Now.

[scott_r]

How about some serious SDK attention?

Scott.

[JimH]

>>If you look at the diff between 9 and 9.1 its huge, look between 9.1 and 10 and... well umm Is that it?

Since 12/03/03 up until now (10.0.72), there have been total of 65 builds (17 not released and 2 pulled due to problems) ... 49 NEW features, 163 Changed items, and 208 Fixes. I have the complete list if anyone is interested.

I think they have come a long way. There a few areas for me that I would liked changed. I'll get to that later..maybe.

Thanks.  And a good 1/3 of the work we've done isn't visible yet.

[bhudge]

I still am unable to transfer Ogg Vorbis files to my Rio Karma.  After encoding and when it starts uploading I get the "analyzing devices" box followed by "retrieving file info (274)" and then it repeats both boxes again and then takes me to the handheld view without completing the upload.

[JimH]

How about some serious SDK attention?

We probably can't do that until 10.0 is shipped.  

[gpvillamil]

I don't see any major bugs affecting me. In general MC10 seems a much more polished (and faster) animal than MC9.1.

I have a few easy requests and a difficult request before release however.

The easy one is to improve the aesthetics of the skins, track infos, visualizations. For example, we really should have the matching mini-me for Blue Steel skin, and ideally for all the other skins that ship with the product. I think right now PixOS is the only one? Some of the track infos (eg. Tropic, Dreamstate) look like "proof of concept" that don't really match the visual style of the skins. Same with the visualizations - some of the collage skins are useful examples of how to work with Vis Studio, but not especially stylish. So get a graphic designer to give the program a once-over, make sure that there is at least one set of skin/track info/viz that is stylistically consistent (probably already in the forums) and package it up nicely for a nice out-of-box experience. It should be possible for a new user to get something nice & consistent without searching through the forums.

Another easy request is to update the help file to explain the need for additional DVD software before it will play in MC. I don't believe it says anywhere that you have to install another DVD player before MC will work with DVDs.

Final easy request is to make thumbnail sizes and font sizes independently configurable in Theater View. I want big fonts and small thumbs on my plasma TV.

The difficult request is to add a Smartlist wizard similar to the one in iTunes & Winamp5. This might not make it into MC10, I guess...

[c1c9k72]

My only concern before the release of 10.0 is probably not a showstopper, but I've found it quite annoying in the past.  The inability for MC to reliably store date (month) and date (day) information in the tags of MP3's is something I'd love to see rectified before the next release.  This is a tiny problem given the scope of the software, I understand, but I just thought I'd bring it to your attention.

[Snuffy2]

I don't think I'd call 10.0 complete until it supports dynamic playlists on the iPOD.  This was being worked on in 9.1 and then 10 came into being and it was being worked on for 10.  Then there was an entire rewrite of the handheld code, that at this current moment still has a few bugs, however, there is no support for dynamic playlists.

I understand that it's a complex process to get running, but I still feel it should be part of 10.0.

[Platu]

Theatre View
Please address the issue discussed in the recent thread found here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=19256

I really need to define a default (thumbnails vs. list) per view scheme.

Thank you.

Platu

[bennyd]

Could we have the recording options and DVD controls in Theatre Mode in a more obvious place then in Playing Now/Display Options/... ?
And/Or have MC Commands for these actions  

[scott_r]

Are there any showstopper bugs left?  We'd like to release it soon.

Thanks.  And a good 1/3 of the work we've done isn't visible yet.

So I assume that that 1/3 of the work, when released, will be bug-free?

Seems like an awfully short development period for a major version change. Version 10 seems to me like it should really be called 9.2.

Maybe the 1/3 that is yet to be seen will warrant it...

Scott.

[Squanderbug]

I'd second the comment about handheld's not working that well.

I'm still having major problems with the Zen xtra synch, so I don't think you can call this part ready yet.

[Sauzee]

I don't doubt that a huge amount of work has gone into V10. However my impression is that it isn't really that different from 9.1.

I may be wrong in that view, but impressions/perceptions DO count and that IS my impression. Having said that, I paid next to nothing to upgrade from 9 so I certainly don't feel ripped off.

Also I don't use hairstyle and there seem to have been a lot of changes in that area, so that may influence my perception.

[Monkeyboy]

I like to switch the view at times, but I don't want to navigate thru the Theatre View menu to just to get back to Playing Now.

agreed, I think some more tweaking needs to be done to Theatre View,
-this problem
-the screensaver idea (comes on after x amount of inactivity)
-playing now following the playing tracks
-more customisation in the menu structure (nothing complex, like options to have a different default view scheme)
-maybe a few others I cant think of right now that have been mentioned
Then i'll be very happy  

Rich

[Marko]

My only concern before the release of 10.0 is probably not a showstopper, but I've found it quite annoying in the past.  The inability for MC to reliably store date (month) and date (day) information in the tags of MP3's is something I'd love to see rectified before the next release.  This is a tiny problem given the scope of the software, I understand, but I just thought I'd bring it to your attention.

Hear, Hear!! Is there any reason why this data cannot be stored in file tags? As I see it, [date (year)], [date (month)] and [date (day)] are all calculated from the contents of the [date] field. All that's needed as far as I can see is for the [date] field to be stored in the tag. If it cannot be done could someone confirm that and we may shut up about it

I also noticed that the issues discussed here have still not been rectified....
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=17796
Jim?

I'll grab the latest beta and see if there's anything else.....

marko.

[Laffer]

Video crossfades - pretty please with sugar on top

I am _desperate_ for this functionality......

[LonWar]

>>If you look at the diff between 9 and 9.1 its huge, look between 9.1 and 10 and... well umm Is that it?

Since 12/03/03 up until now (10.0.72), there have been total of 65 builds (17 not released and 2 pulled due to problems) ... 49 NEW features, 163 Changed items, and 208 Fixes. I have the complete list if anyone is interested.

I think they have come a long way. There a few areas for me that I would liked changed. I'll get to that later..maybe.

Yes they have come along way, however there was a bigger difference between 9 and 9.1... And there wasn't a charge.

I meant no disrespect, it was only a question. Maybe once the other 1/3 is released I'll think other wise.

[ipodman]

I think it works great
Sure it isnt necessarily a "show-stopper" for prior users.
But, I think it is more attractive to newbies, which I know was importnat to you.

The new features are nice and the developing ipod support sure is appreciated.

One thing I wish still existed were the "smart playlists" that were already made.  I know you can use the wizard and see them there (60 min of songs, data cd worth, etc). But I liked having them automatically included in playlists.  plus, new users would find this easier to use too

[jleerigby]

For me 10 works really nicely and I can't think of any show stoppers.

You know what I think about 10 by now.  It's introduced some really nice features but it feels more like a 9.2 because we never really saw the BIG stuff.  MC is such a great application and it's in a position now to polish off those things that will truly set it apart.  I really hope 10.1 or whatever comes next is the one that will add the polish.  The Theatre View suggestion (as per the link from Platu above) would be a good start.

I think it's fair to say that what you have done in 10 has been done really well.  Good luck with the next release.

[Spiffy]

I think it's pretty close. I think an area that's lacking is documentation. I just recently purchased an Ipod and I think using it with MC is way cool, but practically undocumented. I have read through the mini-docs(which was using MC9 and not the newer stuff in MC10) and the threads here so I managed to get it to work, but I think users are going to need more than what's available. I would say that's true of some other new things too. Just a thought.

[JimH]

I'm not asking whether you think you're getting the best deal of your life.

I'm just asking if you know of any serious problems that remain.

(We know about the handheld problem and it will be fixed.)

Just for a point of reference, we go through this same routine every time we're about ready to ship.  We say "ship it".  Some say "Sure".  Some say "Are you crazy?"

Here's the question we asked when we were ready to ship 9.1:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=10115

That was on Sep 3, 2003, so we're about 5 1/2 months into this cycle.  It was several weeks after that when we finally shipped.  It probably will be this time, too.

[JustinChase]

Thanks.  And a good 1/3 of the work we've done isn't visible yet.

I can't decide if this means...

• this 1/3 will be included in 10.0 (bug free without our help testing?) when it's released, or
• that more work has been done than we see now, and it will be implemented in 10.1 (or whatever follows) (for another upgrade fee?), or
• that J River has done a lot of work, even if we can't see, so quit complaining about how it feels like 9.2, instead of 10.0.

I hope option 1.

I posted this one a while back, but it's still there...

When I make a tag change to a field, and then I click on another SONG, before clicking on another FIELD in the song that I made the change to (does that make sense?), it will apply the change to both the song I intended to change, as well as the new song I clicked on, which I did not intend to change.

With that said, I don't think you can keep making changes to how things work and expect to release a bug free program.  At some point you just have to fix the bugs, and stop implementing new things, or release a program with bugs.

[miked]

I would like to see the Web Media approach re-thought.

It doesn't behave like the other "Media" trees, expanding to allow creation of schemes below it ie genre, speed, whatever, it should.
If it did conform, by all means "pre-populate" some standard schemes.
I am still slightly disconcerted everytime I open Web Media because it is so different.

If you are going to "force" users to go to the Web Site for stations, you need to add a far more flexible search engine.  It should at least allow you to enter the name of the Station or partial name.  Trying to wade through large screens of stations just to find one you know is there, isn't user friendly

regards
Mike

[JustinChase]

I would have to agree about the web media interface.

Way out of place, and obviously not part of the Media Center 'family'

[sdgrizdan]

Found another MJ reference in MC!  

Tools -> Plug-in Manager

If click on the  'Encoder', 'Handheld', 'Input', 'Interface', 'Remotes' in the left tree, the description in the right pane contains MJ instead of MC.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: Party Mode

1. You cannot change skins w/ party mode on, but the menu is not grayed out.

2. The option to burn a cd is grayed out in the toolbar, but it is available in the action window.

3. You can still delete files from the media library. This is dangerous, as party mode should not be able to do anything.

4. File -> Library should all be grayed out and not be able to be used under PM. This is very important!

5. Users shouldnt be allowed to change 'file tags' or 'view schemes'

There is probably more that I have not come across yet.  

[Omni]

I've been out of touch with the forums for a while (except for a brief appearance I made in which I was completely misunderstood and got flamed ) , so I might have missed any info on this....


...but if that 1/3 "not visible to public" stuff includes a music service, then I say ship it!!!!    (You can always do the Microsoft thing and just patch it later if any bugs pop up. )

[JimH]

... if that 1/3 "not visible to public" stuff includes a music service, then I say ship it!!!!  

Highly probable.

[ipodman]

Jim

Congrats on build 10

the ipod support is great. (steve deserves a raise   )

Ship it!  (and please sell .aac  or .mp3 in that music store!!!)

[KingSparta]

the ipod support is great. (steve deserves a raise   )

Jim Pays in Live Stock Only, I prefer he gives Steve A Cow since I am Chicken Man!

[pat1066]

I'm a newcomer with a small music and image collection wanting to avoid the hassle of using WMP, Real and Irfanview if I can do it with a single player. I'll probably continue with MC10 but:
The ability to easily delete files makes me nervous as does the need to remember definitions of Fields,Tags,Files, Properties, Types and File information. (I'm saving finding out about Dates for later...)
I still don't know what is backed-up with the library. Is it everything configurable?
Not keeping up with newer versions of Real and WMP adds to the irritation of needing to update them.
Streaming radio seems to generally be a weakness that doesn't bother the other players.
A final whinge - The File Properties divisions are Shirley wrong?
Tag Info should be renamed as Library Fields and File Type Info should be renamed as ... well ... Tag Info!
The beta has behaved well ... rather like being visited by a kindly relative who always brings a little present!
The forum is a pleasant way to cope with problems (Well, it beats reading the manual... only joking, the Help is good!) and the headmaster keeps good order.
For me, I'd say there are still some rough corners, but your power users will not be put off!
Pat.

[jleerigby]

The forum is a pleasant way to cope with problems (Well, it beats reading the manual... only joking, the Help is good!) and the headmaster keeps good order.

Just wait till you get put in detention.

[Sauzee]

I'd like an option to be able to define whether searching the media library defaults to searching just the media library [files on PC] or media libary plus removable media.

It may not sound much, but to me that's a showstopper.

See http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=19327

[Mastiff]

For my use (multi-zone and control with NetRemote) there's no faults so far after having used version 10 for a few days. No crashes or anything, and that's not for a lack of trying! I even let my wife loose on it, and she couldn't manage to break anything, so when it comes to automation and simple MP3 playback all seems to be in order.  

[ugilt]

I'd like to see Theater Mode addressed.  At one point we were asked how to "Make Hairstyle Better" and we put together a HUGE list of  suggestions (there is a large thread somewhere on the board).  While it has gotten a bit better, it has not addressed hardly any of the of suggestions.  As you've mentioned to me before, you don't design by commitee, but you requested our input on this...I just thought we'd see more happen there.  Heck, it was one of the prime reasons I upgraded.

Also, as mentioned above, handheld support still needs some work.  I believe you mentioned it would be before shipping above too, so we are probably good there.

--Thomas

Exactly my issues as well. Missing this I really don't  see that huge improovements since 9.1.
I'd prefer you to sit on v10 for another month or so to get THIS fix'ed - especially the Dynamic Playlist.
Then I'd like to see a fast release of V.10.1 with a SDK and open interface that allows for outside cotrol ie. updated MIO

[Penfold]

Further to Marko's post about the Start page, it's getting rather tedious telling my machine I don't want it to dial out everytime I run MC, I can block the outgoing connection, but it leaves me with a rather ugly looking 404...tbh I want to design my own MC launch page, so maybe if clear instructions on how to do this were provided we could avoid all this hassle?

Incidentally, why does MC insist on using IE to display pages when my default browser is Firebird/Firefox? Can we not set this somewhere.
This would be a nice addition for 10 also...

Either that or a simple, 'Start in Audio/Video/whatever mode' option would make me a happy bunny...

Also while we're on the subject of sites we are 'guided' to, if we are going to be forced to use Amazon to find a CD, can we at least have the option to use our 'local' variant? ie amazon.co.uk?

And on a final note, the above may sound whiney, but in the 6months I've been using this program these are my only gripes (so far ;o)

Let me just say that the current focus on getting the iPod support back on it's feet is laudable & very much appreciated.

[Quisp]

Well, you asked...

The biggest pain right now in the day-to-day use is the extremely awkward method for going from detail view to Album Thumbnail view. I know there is another awkward key command but I can never remember it and it toggles between all of the views. Since I'm going from this view to another close to 50 times per day ,(Yes, probably a conservative estimate, actually, I use most features of MC daily, except Theater View, can't afford it...), it would be great if you would allow us to put a custom button for each view. I don't care if it is the same icon, I CAN remember left list, right thumb. If it is easier, separate key commands would be acceptable. I just need this part to go smoother.

I promise not to ask about cue sheets.

Regarding bugs...there is definately some weirdness going on when ripping multiple CDs and accessing YADB. There is no real way to batch, you really need to wait for both CDs to finish and you must wait for the status window to present itself and be closed before adding anything else, otherwise you will usually start a YADB lookup loop....

This is a quick list and I didn't read all the posts above so I may be reapeating someone else.

[jimpmc]

I tend to agree with Quisp...one of the talked-about v10 wish features (as Matt referenced in http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=17389;start=msg119242#msg119242) was a combined album art and details view.  I was really excited about that, and now that we've gone through all these builds and nothing like it still exists, I am sort of disappointed.

Along those lines, I would have at least hoped that within the existing view construct, it should at least be a lot easier to be able to switch between album thurmbnails and details view by having a direct button to do so.  I also think in terms of navigation it would be great to be able to double click on an album thumbnail and then have it switch to details view for just that album.  I know you can achieve this by right clicking and selecting locate album and then switching to details view, but the combination of clicks, menu and sub-menu choices doesn't make for easy back and forth navigation if you just want to check out an album.  

I know the JRiver folks have worked hard and have amassed an impressive list of changes/features through the various builds, but a few usability tweaks would go a long way towards allowing people to use their (ever-growing) libraries effectively.

-J

[gpvillamil]

Whoops, I'm still getting a hard crash (mouse cursor freezes, have to cycle power) whenever I try to burn CD or DVD from MC. The crash seems to occur a set amount of time after blank media is inserted, sometimes after the burn has started, other times while I'm selecting files to drag to the AW.

I've been through the whole clean install/see when it stops working cycle a couple of times now.

What I find is this: MC10 will burn CDs & DVDs OK immediately after a clean install. It seems to stop working after I update DirectX to 9.0b and WMP to 9.0. All other CD/DVD burning programs installed afterwards will work OK - Nero, Roxio, the stuff that comes with the drives, WinXP builtin.

I suspected a hardware fault, so have been through a whole suite of diagnostics - Memtest86, Sandra, etc and nothing turns up.

So I'm guessing an interaction between WMP9 and MC10 is the problem?

Media Center Registered 10.0.73 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2592 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 981 MB, Free - 726 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1400 / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1233 (xpsp2.030604-1804) / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive D:   Copy mode:Normal   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive D: PLEXTOR  DVDR   PX-708A     Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:40  MaxSpeed:40  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[Quisp]

Yeah, I forgot to mention the ability to view album thumbnails and details simultaneously. That's a big missing feature and one asked for for many years.

Regarding the ability to click on a cover and see the tracks, you can kind of do that now with a little initial work. Create a custom field called, say, "Tracks" and make it a a calculated field using a template of : [Track #] - [Name]. Now you can use this field in a view scheme. It works great for viewing tracks but is pretty worthless for editing tags, etc which is what the separate view would allow.

[KingDodo]

Do you project to support modules formats like .xm before the final release??

[JimH]

Whoops, I'm still getting a hard crash (mouse cursor freezes, have to cycle power) whenever I try to burn CD or DVD from MC. The crash seems to occur a set amount of time after blank media is inserted, sometimes after the burn has started, other times while I'm selecting files to drag to the AW.

I've been through the whole clean install/see when it stops working cycle a couple of times now.

What I find is this: MC10 will burn CDs & DVDs OK immediately after a clean install. It seems to stop working after I update DirectX to 9.0b and WMP to 9.0. All other CD/DVD burning programs installed afterwards will work OK - Nero, Roxio, the stuff that comes with the drives, WinXP builtin.

I suspected a hardware fault, so have been through a whole suite of diagnostics - Memtest86, Sandra, etc and nothing turns up.

So I'm guessing an interaction between WMP9 and MC10 is the problem?

Try uninstalling the other CD burning software.   Someone isn't playing nice.  XP has its own burning software and I believe it's from Roxio.  It can be disabled.

Start a new thread if you want some more ideas.

[EpF]

Something I've noticed that doesn't work the way I expect it to:

I have  saved a preset group of columns in 'Customize Current View', and named it; now when I right-click on one of the column headers I get a menu which includes the word 'Columns' with a submenu, where the name of my column preset shows up.  I would expect that when I click on that name, the current view would change to show that preset layout, but it doesn't - I have to go into the 'Customize Current Vew' dialogue and load that preset through the 'Preset' button...  Seems like a fault of some kind.  I took a look through 'Options' to see if there was something I should change, but I couldn't see anything...

[lalittle]

Is Media Center 10.0 ready?  

Are there any showstopper bugs left?  We'd like to release it soon.

Thanks for your help finding problems.

The problems with the radio stations (no WMA capability, search by speed not working) as well as Audible files not working over Media Server are both showstoppers to me.  Neither one of these issues was a problem with 9.1.

Larry

[Quisp]

Converting from format A to format B doesn't take into account for multiple artists...This should really be fixed if possible.