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Author Topic: Smartlist Challenge!  (Read 8724 times)

UnknownID

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Smartlist Challenge!
« on: October 19, 2005, 02:40:43 pm »

A long time ago there was an internet radio station called Massinova that brought dance and trance music to thousands of listeners (perhaps you have heard of it?). Anyway, they got into trouble by not paying royalties and were eventually shut down; but that is not why I am writing.

One of the greatest innovations by Massinova was it’s request system. Listeners could request as many songs as they wanted at any given time (one request person). The catch was that the more often the song was played the less often the system would select the song to play. Make sense? This prevented popular songs from getting overplayed and allowed for the non-popular music to get some stream time.

The Challenge
Create a smartlist that mimics the Massinova mechanism. All songs are included, but the least played songs appear more often and in greater numbers on the results of the list, while the higher played songs still appear, but less often and are few (sometimes none). Obviously, as the playcount for a song increased it would gradually appear less and less each time the smartlist was run.

Any takers?
UnknownID


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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2005, 03:02:57 pm »

Im not at my MC computer but you will need to have multiple smarlists to do this. 

You need to start with 3 smartlists divided up by number of times played.   These can be titled least, average, most.  From there you need to take those three smartlsits and create corresponding smartlists that limits how many songs are in each list.  So that the 'most' playlist has the smallest number of songs pulled into the new smartlist with the nubmer of songs prgressing up for the other 2.  Then have a final smartlist titled Massinova mix that takes the last 3 lists and randomizes them toghether. :)

This would take 7 lists in all but will work.
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hit_ny

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2005, 03:11:41 pm »

LOL

Done...next please :)
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UnknownID

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2005, 03:22:13 pm »

LOL

Done...next please :)
Not quite ;D


I assume that there must be statements like <10, >=10 && <=100, and >100 to indicate what is included in your smartlists. What happens when all songs progress out of the <10 smartlist?

Is there anyway to do this without the grouping? The more dynamic the better.

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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2005, 03:35:13 pm »

I don't have the exact syntax but take how many songs are in your library then divide that by 3.  Put a limit on your first 3 lists based upon that number.  The first list you need to sort by most played.  The second list needs to be by least played.  The third would exclude the first 2 lists to create the average played songs.  Then use the explanation above.

That should work. ;D
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marko

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2005, 03:57:52 pm »

got it working quite well using 4 smartlists. gotta dash to work so will post it in the morning if you like.

I used number plays from 1-49, 50-99, 100-200.

would you prefer more granularity than that?

UnknownID

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2005, 05:16:26 pm »

I don't have the exact syntax but take how many songs are in your library then divide that by 3.  Put a limit on your first 3 lists based upon that number.  The first list you need to sort by most played.  The second list needs to be by least played.  The third would exclude the first 2 lists to create the average played songs.  Then use the explanation above.

That should work. ;D

I like where this is going ;D
Is there a way to query the total number of songs in the library so this can be dynamic as well?

UnknownID
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UnknownID

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2005, 05:26:04 pm »

would you prefer more granularity than that?

I was kind of hoping for infinate varieties where each track belongs to itseslf (not grouped) with a percentage assigned to the track that represented the chance in which it would come up in the smartlist...

i.e. the track with 0 plays would have a 100% chance while a track with 100 plays has a 1% chance (all other tracks would fall between these)

Regardless, if this cannot be done then so be it ;D ;D ;D
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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2005, 08:07:20 pm »

I like where this is going ;D
Is there a way to query the total number of songs in the library so this can be dynamic as well?

UnknownID
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Your first level smartlists needs to be setup with this syntax.  Just replace 100 with 1/3 of your library.  The third smartlist would jsut exclude playlists 1 & 2

~sort=[number plays]-a ~n=100
~sort=[number plays]-d ~n=100


Your second level needs to include the coresponding first level playilst and then limit according to how many you want to hear.   I might add ~sort=[Random] to make the playlist more usable.

The final 'mix' playlist needs to include all 3 second level playlists and then add ~sort=[Random].

Let me know how that works out.
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UnknownID

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 09:34:28 am »

Thanks for your help!

I will give this a shot over the weekend and share my findings on Monday.

UnknownID


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UnknownID

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2005, 05:53:57 pm »

got it working quite well using 4 smartlists. gotta dash to work so will post it in the morning if you like.

Please do!
(Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you)

UnknownID


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Seviien

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2005, 07:23:39 pm »

There's actually a way to do this with one playlist due to the miracle of the undocumented ~mix syntax.  Here's what I did:

g=[Rock] ~mix=15,8,W,4,X,2,Y,1,Z ~sort=[Name]

Where:
W = {Rating=>=3 ~sort=[number plays],[Last Played]-d,[date imported]-d ~%=50 ~sort=[random]}
X = {Rating=>=3 ~sort=[number plays]-d,[Last Played],[date imported] ~%=50 ~sort=[random]}

Y = {Rating=1-2 ~sort=[number plays],[Last Played]-d,[date imported]-d ~%=50 ~sort=[random]}
Z = {Rating=1-2 ~sort=[number plays]-d,[Last Played],[date imported] ~%=50 ~sort=[random]}


Now, the fact that it more closely resembles an algebra equation rather than a smartlist is probably a good sign that this one isn't for everyone.  In plain english, here's what it does:

1) I get 15 tracks of "Rock" Music that will be sorted by song title

2) 8 tracks will be randomly selected from the least played half of my "favorties," which have 3 or more stars
3) 4 tracks will be randomly selected from the most played half of my "favorties," which have 3 or more stars

4) 2 tracks will be randomly selected from the least played half of my "non favorties," which have 1-2 stars
5) 1 tracks will be randomly selected from the most played half of my "non favorties," which have 1-2 stars


There's an extra wrinkle here in that I want the playlist to biforcate my favorites and non favorites too.   That's just something that's relevant to how my music is organized; it isn't strictly necessary to fulfill the "challenge."  There's also some complexity due to the tiebreakers I threw in there to decide what happens when songs past the 50% threshold all have the same number of spins.  All of this could be stripped out if you like, but the above syntax should at least point you in the right direction.

Note that if you're gonna cut and paste with the above syntax, be very careful you get the spacing right when you're pasting in the variables -- there can't be any spaces between the commas or else it won't work.

Now... was there a prize associated with the challenge?  ;) j/k
Thanks for raising the question, UnknownID.  It got me thinking, and I believe I'm going to enjoy the results...
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UnknownID

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2005, 07:45:39 pm »

Thanks for raising the question, UnknownID.  It got me thinking, and I believe I'm going to enjoy the results...

;D ;D ;D

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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2005, 09:57:30 pm »

Good thing cuz I hate cornflakes. ::)
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marko

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2005, 03:02:51 am »

Nice work seviien, and I totally agree with you, a superb question from UknownID.

I had been working on a solution using ~mix too, but had totally overlooked the ~%= modifier. Our approaches were similar, but your solution is a lot cleaner than mine was shaping up to be.

Just to emphasize your copy/paste warning for anyone doing so, remember the 'curly' braces are required too.
the 'release' thread for the ~mix modifier can be read here if anyone's interested. Some cool things can be achieved with it, as you can see.

datdude, don't be like ::) , be like :D
sniping tips off each other like this is a great way to add to your smartlist building arsenal. Jlee and I have had some good fun with these in the past.
No-one's mentioned nested playlists in ages either, so I'm willing to bet your posts have set one or two lurkers off in search of more info.

-marko.

Alex B

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2005, 04:02:52 am »

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but now after having read this thread through, I realize that an MC wiki is needed urgently. The MC Help file can never be exactly up-to-date and lots of additional information is buried in this forum.

This thread is a good example of information that should be easily available. This forum contains literally thousands of posts that would make great wiki articles. And as we know many users have written instructions, which are available in various places. Personally I'm constantly searching my past posts when answering to the same questions again and again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Jim & co, do it now!
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GHammer

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2005, 08:56:46 am »


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

I'd like to see a wiki I guess. But the defacing would be a problem, so then the lockdown/editing of it would become a problem.

If a wiki appears, hope wikipedia isn't the host of it. That is blocked in China. Can't have information freely bandied about you know...
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hit_ny

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2005, 09:07:01 am »


I'm not against the idea of a central repository that has lots of the gems that grace this board from time to time.
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JimH

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2005, 09:23:09 am »

You could do that in a thread or a series of threads.

Here's an example:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=24031;start=0

The FAQ is another example:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=10029.0

We actually set up a Wiki a few months ago, but it wasn't right and we got distracted by other work.

Maybe some day.

For now, please think about using the existing board.  You could set up a series like this:

Install Questions and Answers
License Q and A
CD Ripping
CD Burning
Cover Art
Tagging
DVD
Video
Images
Codec Comparisons
Remote Control
etc


One sticky thread could serve as a link to the others.  One or two people could take on each one of the topics and organize it.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2005, 11:15:23 am »

Nice work seviien, and I totally agree with you, a superb question from UknownID.

I had been working on a solution using ~mix too, but had totally overlooked the ~%= modifier. Our approaches were similar, but your solution is a lot cleaner than mine was shaping up to be.

Just to emphasize your copy/paste warning for anyone doing so, remember the 'curly' braces are required too.
the 'release' thread for the ~mix modifier can be read here if anyone's interested. Some cool things can be achieved with it, as you can see.

datdude, don't be like ::) , be like :D
sniping tips off each other like this is a great way to add to your smartlist building arsenal. Jlee and I have had some good fun with these in the past.
No-one's mentioned nested playlists in ages either, so I'm willing to bet your posts have set one or two lurkers off in search of more info.

-marko.

I like his smartlist and didn't even know about the mix option but his comment was very odd to say the least.
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Seviien

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2005, 12:51:08 pm »

My fault.  Shouldn't have typed anything that could have been viewed as confrontational.  I was sleepy and jet lagged.  We cool, datdude?

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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2005, 01:12:37 pm »

No probs.  I didn't think my  ' ::) ' would get a bad reaction.  I can't wait to find some time to play around with your new smartlist rules. :)
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mesue

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2005, 08:15:25 pm »

This thread is blowing my mind! LOL

Lisa, can you elaborate on this a little more?
Speking of nested smartlists, I have several sets and I find in some cases I can place the smartlist group into the first column of a view scheme. Much handier right there in the library than to have to go down the tree into the smartlists, plus you can then filter down the results using additional columns.

I have one like that I use frequently which gathers groups of random albums, then presents me a choice of these in the view scheme. example:

four random unplayed, imported this week
four random unplayed, imported this month
four random unplayed (any age)
four random, previously played (any age)

Maybe with a screen shot? I keep finding myself creating smartlists and then I decide it would be better as a view scheme or vice-versa.

Also, is there any way to take a search string and instantly save it as a view scheme or smart list?
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datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2005, 09:49:48 pm »

Yea this is a neat trick.  Check this post, you can see the first pane is a playlist group.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=28958.msg206057#msg206057
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mesue

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2005, 10:30:55 pm »

Thanks, datdude… that helps.
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GHammer

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2005, 11:16:35 pm »

You could do that in a thread or a series of threads.

One sticky thread could serve as a link to the others.  One or two people could take on each one of the topics and organize it.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.


You could, but it just doesn't seem to be very accessible.
It goes back to the old "Everything" in one forum thing.
Usability, testing, support, chatter all in one forum.

Forums are good for conversations. They are not a good way to present (or search) for information.
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marko

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2005, 03:20:17 am »

I'm getting absolutely knocked out with the results of the smartlist that this thread has helped produce!

I have 3 audio preset buttons on my logitech keyboard that have been tweaked to fire MC playlists instead and I've placed it under one of those buttons.
there are only three, so a playlist has to be exceptional to achieve this status :)

Thank you once more to everyone involved.

Quote
One sticky thread could serve as a link to the others.  One or two people could take on each one of the topics and organize it.
any incentives on offer?

:)

datdude

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Re: Smartlist Challenge!
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2006, 01:03:35 am »

Does anyone know if it is possible to create a grouping/alternating sort?

I filled in most of the moods field and it would be great to cycle from chill to aggressive back and forth.
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