Topic: MKV playback [now working] (Read 36904 times)

JustinChase · « **on:** April 19, 2011, 09:27:45 am »

PLEASE, can you PLEASE do something to allow MKV's to playback without having to have a degree in codecs to set it up??

PLEASE?

?

It's a very common container now, and MC should not give error messages on a brand new install when trying to play an MKV file.

PLEASE fix this, please

jroyale · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:00:21 pm »

JustinChase,

To be fair this isn't a jriver issue at all. They don't manufacture codecs and likely don't have the rights to ship the product with other codecs. In fact most users would revolt if it came shipped with them because each has their own preference.

It's really quite simple but I don't know anything about your setup. If you are running windows 7 all you will need is a splitter I believe. Haali is generally a good one. Once installed jriver should pick up on it, use Win7's native mkv codec and you won't have to touch anything.

If you are not using win7 any installed codec for mkv's will be picked up by jriver and will be used automatically. This also requires a splitter like Haali. If you have 2 codecs installed then you will have to select which one to use but if you only have 1, it will automatically use that.

The codec you use for your mkv varies and lots of people have a lot of opinions particularly depending on the speed of your machine. I have an acer revo 3160 so that has an nvidia gpu and an atom processor, so for me CORE AVC is the best choice.

In short at most you have to install 2 items but if you are running win7, just 1 and jriver will do the rest.

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2011, 01:28:45 pm »

[nerdmode]
MKV is a container, not a codec.
[/nerdmode]

J River could conceivably implement their own splitter for the MKV container, but this is a very non-trivial programming task, and would either:

A) Be implemented "quick and dirty" which would mean a lot of the capabilities of the MKV format would be unsupported, so most people would resort to 3rd Party splitters (Haali mostly) anyway.

B) Suck away a HUGE amount of development time from MC in order to "reinvent the wheel" and implement the splitter features that already exist in a variety of third-party splitters which are freely available (gratis and libre).

Probably both.

Unfortunately, the way that VLC and Media Player Classic "do it" isn't an option. Both of those products are open source projects which can easily directly implement the GPL code in the also-open-source decoding filters. They just lift the code from one project, paste it into another project, tweak it, and hit compile. Done. In fact, in many cases, the same exact people who are building the filters, actually also participate in those player projects. J River can't do this. If they just "steal" the source code for the splitters from the open-source projects, they'd be violating the licensing terms of those projects. They could get sued. Even if they didn't get sued, they could be subjected to a PR campaign against them by the open source advocates, and it is just generally bad behavior that should be frowned upon.

Perhaps even more importantly (because you can often work around the GPL licensing issues by linking to external DLLs that download separately, like MC does with LAME), there are serious Patent Licensing issues with all of those projects. If there was a corporate entity behind many of those projects that you were able to sue (and have a hope of getting someone to show up in court), those projects would have already have been sued out of existence by the MPEG-LA. While MKV itself is not patent encumbered (supposedly, it hasn't ever been tested in court), the codecs that are almost always contained within the MKVs (H264, AAC, AC3, MP3, etc) are NOT patent free. Paying all of these licensing fees, if it was even possible, would be quite expensive and would result in a much higher purchase price for MC.

Lastly... The most important factor is that supporting "MKV" is really only a tiny piece of the puzzle. As I snarked above, MKV is NOT a codec, it is a container. A container is a computer files that works much like a folder. You need a piece (a "splitter") that opens the folder, but then you also need individual programs that can read all of the contents of the "folder". Just like if you open a regular folder on your computer, you need one program to open Word Documents, and another to open PDFs, and a third to open Adobe InDesign documents. Just because you can open the folder, doesn't mean you can use the contents of the folder (you might not have InDesign installed, so you won't be able to open the INDD files in the folder.

MKVs work exactly the same way. Once you "open" the MKV, inside are a bunch of different "streams" of information, which might be in a huge variety of different formats. Almost certainly, there will be at least one audio stream and one video stream, but there could be 5 different audio streams (in a variety of formats), 2 video streams, a subtitle stream, metadata tags, and a whole variety of other different stuff. Even if J River implemented a full featured, whiz-bang MKV splitter, it still wouldn't let you open those MKV files up unless you also have decoders installed that can read these various streams.

So then, J River would also need to implement a wide variety of different stream decoders... Again, re-inventing the wheel (and creating additional licensing expense) because this stuff all already exists out there totally free of charge.

So.... These are all of the reasons. The solution is simple... To support all of the media types you are likely to encounter (and many you are unlikely to encounter): Install CCCP. Done.

mojave · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2011, 01:41:38 pm »

In the thread Direct Show Filters - Share Your Setup you can find the filters that some of us use for MKV playback.

Quote from: jroyale on April 19, 2011, 12:00:21 pm

I have an acer revo 3160 so that has an nvidia gpu and an atom processor, so for me CORE AVC is the best choice

Have you tried LAV CUVID video decoder? Your Nvidia GPU supports Purevideo VP3 with feature set B. This means that using the LAV CUVID decoder you can use the GPU to decode MPEG-1, MPEG-2, VC-1/WMV9 and H.264 using the CUDA video decoding API. I am using on a ASRock ION 3D HTPC with an Nvidia ION GPU and Atom processor.

JustinChase · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2011, 03:18:48 pm »

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm not sure who Glynor was explaining about containers to; my original post referred to it as a container, so I understand that part of it, in case that was meant for me

I also understand that J River can't just include everything bundled with MC, for the licensing/liability issues you describe. However, as Glynor said, if they can link to the LAME encoder as part of the install, and I think they are bringing in ffdshowfilters "automatically" with the install (I'm not sure, I haven't installed fresh for a while), so I guess I just figured they could do a similar trick with the necessary filters/splitters/codecs. That must not be possible for some reason.

Also, wouldn't the splitter really be the only thing required to open the MKV that J River would need to create? they can already playback most of the streams an MKV would likely contain, so just cracking it open would be 80% of the battle, no? As you said, it may eat up a lot of time and money to do this, but maybe not too much for the reward to be gained from doing it.

Mainly, what caused me to post this request was that I just did a fresh PORTABLE install to a thumb drive, copied the recent F1 race to it, and brought it to work to watch in the background. When I clicked on play it gave a cryptic error, with no help to resolve. I realized immediately what the problem was, but that still didn't make the video playable

I had/have all necessary filters/codecs/splitters installed on the machine I used to install from, but that didn't get them onto the portable drive in a usable fashion. I can't install ffdshow or CCCP on my work machine, nor MPC-HC, and don't want to try to mess around with finding and copying filters/codecs/splitters directly to the thumb drive, then trying to register them, as that's likely to not work on the first try, and eat up a couple hours of my time messing around trying.

So, I do understand (at least basically) the potential legal issues, but there must be some way to make it easier.

Maybe an error message with useful content would be a good start. if I remember right it was an obscure code number and something about directshow when it failed.

jroyale, I wish it was as easy as you've explained, but that's not been my experience. I've had CCCP, Haali, ffdshow, MPC-HC and the sharky codec pack all installed at some point, usually exclusively, but some have likely been installed at the same time, and sometimes it seems everything works, but eventually some file won't play properly. sometimes with errors, sometimes just failure.

I've tried setting MC to "automatic" and that's NEVER worked, no matter what's installed. if you look at the filter choices, there's nearly 100 of them, no matter what is actually installed. Why in the world should ANYONE have to go thru that list trying to figure out what will work??? That just makes NO SENSE to me.

I'd be thrilled if MC could figure out what is registered on a system, and use an internal/modifiable list of preferences for any file it tries to play. Look for the top choice, use if registered, if not, go to #2, rinse and repeat. It could maybe suggest "better" options to a user, but just having automatic work properly would be a big step forward.

Maybe a fresh install of Windows on a clean drive, followed by a fresh install of CCCP, then a fresh install of MC would get automatic working, but I don't want to spend the hours trying that just now.

I realize this is all complicated, and seemingly can't easily just work, but it can certainly be better than it is now, in my opinion.

With all that said, is there any way to install/copy/paste/register/something the required filters/codecs/splitter to get mkv's playing properly on a portable install, without having to install anything on the host machine I'm using for playback?

mojave, thanks for the link to that thread, I'll take a closer look when I'm back at home. I'm sure my setup is not "right" since I installed an ATI Radeon 5550 for the bitstreaming ability.

I can't tell if everything is just passing thru, but it sure doesn't seem like it to me. I hear sound and see video while playing almost everything now, which keeps the wife happy, but I'd like to get it "right" at some point before I die, or we go to a new "standard" for audio and video, and we start this whole upgrade/conversion cycle again.

glynor · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:20:21 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 19, 2011, 03:18:48 pm

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm not sure who Glynor was explaining about containers to; my original post referred to it as a container, so I understand that part of it, in case that was meant for me

I also understand that J River can't just include everything bundled with MC, for the licensing/liability issues you describe. However, as Glynor said, if they can link to the LAME encoder as part of the install, and I think they are bringing in ffdshowfilters "automatically" with the install (I'm not sure, I haven't installed fresh for a while), so I guess I just figured they could do a similar trick with the necessary filters/splitters/codecs. That must not be possible for some reason.

It was directed at jroyale who used the terms interchangeably.

LAME is licensed under the LGPL license, rather than the "more viral" GPL license. I don't know if that makes a difference to Jim or his lawyers. I don't think they include a full version of FFDSHOW, but I don't really know for sure.

Quote from: JustinChase on April 19, 2011, 03:18:48 pm

Maybe a fresh install of Windows on a clean drive, followed by a fresh install of CCCP, then a fresh install of MC would get automatic working, but I don't want to spend the hours trying that just now.

I realize this is all complicated, and seemingly can't easily just work, but it can certainly be better than it is now, in my opinion.

I have literally all of my video settings in MC set to Automatic except for AVI. The only reason I have AVI configured manually is that I want it to always try to load FFDSHOW for audio, and that's the easiest way to get it to do that.

Something is weird on your systems. My guess is that it is codecs installed as part of a CD/DVD burning or consumer-grade video editing package. They're notoriously bad. That, or you have something funky "stuck" in there.

I set up vanilla machines with MC all the time, and it always "just works". I install CCCP and then MC. If you want to try yourself, but don't want to mess with a running system, try VMWare Player.

Daydream · « **Reply #6 on:** April 20, 2011, 11:07:57 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 19, 2011, 03:18:48 pm

copied the recent F1 race to it, and brought it to work to watch in the background.

And I thought I'm the only one doing that

.

Quote

So, I do understand (at least basically) the potential legal issues, but there must be some way to make it easier.

Maybe an error message with useful content would be a good start. if I remember right it was an obscure code number and something about directshow when it failed.

[...]

I've tried setting MC to "automatic" and that's NEVER worked, no matter what's installed. if you look at the filter choices, there's nearly 100 of them, no matter what is actually installed. Why in the world should ANYONE have to go thru that list trying to figure out what will work??? That just makes NO SENSE to me.

First, let me say that I agree with Glynor and for all purposes and intentions this is not truly a JRiver/Media Center problem. Although let me also say that if JRiver will create an MKV splitter and an MKV editor that exceeds the abilities of Haali Spliter & mkvtoolnix (ordered chapters, seamless branching, editions, cutting MKV with keyframe accurasy -> all within an interface made for humans) I will pay for it, as much as or more than a license for MC. In my case it is that much worth it. And the non-profit Matroska group allows it.

Getting that out of the way let's see what else may be doable (from my perspective; from a programmer / company pov it may be different). First, as I asked this before, I would like to know what magic is under the hood in MC when it comes to DS filters. Is the selection I make absolute - obey, play or fail (overriding DS filter merits), or it's a first choice (the user choice), but if it fails there is a fallback path? 'Cause that returns crazy results - if a number of filters are set and the playback generally works, but not the way the user wants it and not with the filters he wants it, then he's lost, much more so if he doesn't have a lot f experience. So how is it?

Two. Verify that the actual DS filter selection works (if it's specific) or if it's at all possible - I can set all things to automatic, if I don't have the filters installed no frame will move. Do this (the verifying) as a side option for each file type, or as a generic one (all file types) so that a newbie will know if something is wrong or missing "Your system does not have Gabest, Haali or any other crazy filter for MKV, this file type will NOT play! Go to Google and... acquire enough points to graduate The Academy of Arcane Sciences! Then try again."

Three. If DirectShow has such an important role, build a DirectShow filter editor in MC. So people can register and un-register filters right there, set merits, etc. Maybe like that people will actually learn what's going on. Sure this cuts both ways, since it'll be recipe for disaster for a number of eager "enthusiasts" (slap a disclaimer of top of the option, that one has to have... asteroid insurance before touching it).

Quote

I can't tell if everything is just passing thru, but it sure doesn't seem like it to me. I hear sound and see video while playing almost everything now, which keeps the wife happy, but I'd like to get it "right" at some point before I die, or we go to a new "standard" for audio and video, and we start this whole upgrade/conversion cycle again.

Let's try the over-simplified solution: if you can still use any volume controls on Windows/Media Center - it's not bitstreaming; some mixer/DSP still intercepts the stream and it does something to it. If the only way to adjust the sound volume is your receiver knob, then you're bitstreaming.

BTW we are going to a new standard (this is mainly just to scare people). Can we embed MVC in MKV? Or h265?

(this is all in good fun, I know what the status is).

JustinChase · « **Reply #7 on:** April 20, 2011, 11:31:52 pm »

Quote from: Daydream on April 20, 2011, 11:07:57 pm

And I thought I'm the only one doing that .

hehe, me too

Quote from: Daydream on April 20, 2011, 11:07:57 pm

Let's try the over-simplified solution: if you can still use any volume controls on Windows/Media Center - it's not bitstreaming; some mixer/DSP still intercepts the stream and it does something to it. If the only way to adjust the sound volume is your receiver knob, then you're bitstreaming.

BTW we are going to a new standard (this is mainly just to scare people). Can we embed MVC in MKV? Or h265? (this is all in good fun, I know what the status is).

I have bitstreaming it seems, if only thru Media Center, other software allows volume control.

I've tried to uninstall everything I had installed on the HTPC (codec/filter related), rebooted, installed CCCP and it asked if i wanted to unregister/delete a couple of filters, yes, then restarted again.

I changed every filetype in MC to Automatic and played a few files. some work, others don't. I haven't taken the time to figure out which ones work and don't but it didn't "just work"

I spent all evening reading about the LAV splitter and madVR renderer, and got more understanding of the current situation, and it does seem that these 2 combined with ffdshow for video decoding works with most everything.

I installed and registered them on my laptop, and they generally work, but not great. Not to blame either the splitter or the renderer, i'm sure it's some setup issue, and the fact that I'm trying to playback over wireless N, which is currently getting a less than great signal.

i will make these changes on the HTPC to test directly, but wanted to update on the progress so far.

I noticed there are 3 new filter choices (100 weren't enough

) for j river video decoder and the codecs (why show me the Codec and Encoder filter; I mean, can i really use them here??), I tried the j river video decoder and it didn't load, and used the WMVideo Decoder instead, which didn't work. this is an mkv file example.

I'll keep plugging away, and report back.
Also

JustinChase · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:06:50 pm »

I uninstalled CCCP, hoping it would remove all the filters and splitters it installed, mainly because I've read that you have to uninstall Haali to get it to not load.

although CCCP uninstalled fine, and I selected remove all settings option, it left most of the filters and splitters registered it seems, as there are still way more options in MC than before I installed it.

i guess I"m going to have to wipe windows and start over again

I still installed and registered LAV and madVR on the HTPC and setup the options for mkv files to use the LAV splitter, LAV audio decoder, ffdshow video decoder and madVR

this seems to work on most files, but I only tested a few.

sadly, "automatic" on all the other file types seems to just use whatever it used last, as most other file types had MPC splitter, or were blank after I uninstalled CCCP, and were using whatever I had tried before changing to automatic, including the EVRenderer.

when I played files, it sometimes used the filters shown in the setup, and sometimes it used something else, usually a microsoft filter. I don't think automatic actually changes anything behind the scenes, it seems to just hide the options to specify the splitter/filter and renderer, but just uses whatever had been selected prior.

this may be why Glynor has such good luck with automatic, he probably just set them up correctly at some point in the past, and it's just using that setup still.

I ended up having to change the settings on EVERY SINGLE video file type to get MC to use LAV and madVR for all file types. this mostly worked, but some gave errors, some didn't play at all, and at one point it just hung MC and I had to kill it in task manager.

It was late before I finished testing, so I don't have any specifics right now, but it still doesn't "just work" after HOURS AND HOURS of trying. Automatic seems to not really do anything at all

I'd like to request MC have a generic Video setting that Automatic uses, since it doesn't seem to actually try to use known working solutions. I would have liked to setup the splitter, filters and renderer ONCE for all video files, then made changes as exceptions required, instead of having to set up the exact same thing a dozen times.

And, I'd still like to beg J River to make this easier for people, it's beyond the reasonable skill of 90% of the computer users I've ever met.

PLEASE!!!

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:38:45 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 21, 2011, 12:06:50 pm

this may be why Glynor has such good luck with automatic, he probably just set them up correctly at some point in the past, and it's just using that setup still.

I'm telling you... I do this all the time. I set up MC on a freshly installed VM literally last night. I have 5 computers at home that use MC (3 regularly), and 3-4 at the office, plus a handful of VM installs. I'm not suggesting that CCCP is the best way to set up basic MKV playback in DirectShow, but it is certainly the easiest.

I usually do this:

1. Install CCCP.
2. Install either Quicktime Player or QT Lite (depending on whether I need iTunes installed on that particular machine).
3. Set Windows 7 to use the filters I just installed instead of the built-in ASP/AVC decoder.
4. Install MC if it isn't already installed.

Now, I will add, on many (but not all) of my machines, I also install CoreAVC because I like it, it is fast, I own a pile of licenses (it is also cheap), and it solves some machine-specific problems I have.

Are there file types that CCCP doesn't handle at all? Yes. They intentionally don't build-in decoders for every possible codec out there, because many of those filters can conflict with others (especially older ones that weren't ever coded very well to begin with...Real and Indeo for example). But, since I actually rip most of my content myself to High-Profile AVC in MKV containers with source audio (usually AC3 off of SageTV, unless they're BluRay/DVD rips), I don't really need to worry about many super-weird "scene" formats. Even when my DVR screws up and I have to resort to "scene" releases on EZTV or whatever, I never have issues with these encodes. Bitstreaming works on my HTPC, and full decoding works on my other machines.

If you're trying to run a bunch of fansub "scene" anime rips that were compressed using esoteric codecs or settings, well then... YMMV. If not, and we're talking fairly "regular" ASP/AVC MKV rips with MP3/AAC/AC3 audio, then I strongly suspect that something is badly wrong on your system and it needs a good nuke/pave. There are absolutely some bad filters out there that do not uninstall properly at all, and the only way to rid yourself of them is to wipe windows. The CCCP group is very careful to not include these. I don't really know for sure, but I strongly suspect that if you uninstalled it properly (and then rebooted) it will have removed itself completely. There is almost certainly more to the story here that we aren't seeing.

I've been testing them on-and-off when I have time (not now), but I haven't currently seen enough stability with LAV and madVR to warrant a switch, yet. There is interesting stuff in there, but they aren't ready for prime-time yet in my estimation (though madVR seems to be getting close).

I do completely agree that J River could take steps to make this stuff easier (automatically downloading filters or at least running the new user through a guide explaining best practices), but there is a big caution in that. Every time they "build something in" then that becomes something to support, and it could become a limiting factor for power users. This stuff is all still evolving incredibly quickly, so I would caution them to tread carefully.

glynor · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2011, 01:34:51 pm »

Not that this is a CCCP Support Forum (there is one of those already with people who are much more expert-level with this stuff than you'd find here), but... It might help if you could provide specific examples of files that won't play properly. If you need it, Dropbox can give you 2GB of free web-accessible storage that you can use with ease to post an example file.

rick.ca · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2011, 03:33:54 pm »

It may not help, but I don't see it mentioned here, so... The CCCP Troubleshooting Guide recommends using its "Insurgent" to remove other codec packs before installing CCCP. If it works, it would be a tad easier than a nuke 'n pave.

glynor · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:04:44 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on April 21, 2011, 03:33:54 pm

If it works, it would be a tad easier than a nuke 'n pave.

The steps in the Troubleshooting Guide basically have you use Insurgent as a "finder" for potential trouble points, after which you are supposed to disable the filters by uninstalling them properly. However, Insurgent can certainly be used as a "precision filter killing machine", but you REALLY need to know what you're doing.

The best bet before you do anything like this would be to get guidance from one of the CCCP experts over on their forums. I believe they even have an IRC server that is often staffed with helpful people who might be able to help you save a system without doing a nuke/pave.

I'm generally of the opinion that if you have these types of problems on a long-running, tweaked, everyday use system; that you probably have a slew of other problems too, and a good ol' nuke/pave is going to be less trouble and less pain in the end. HOWEVER, I do a lot when I'm setting up my machines (using the "cloud" whenever possible, keeping settings relatively non-custom unless necessary, and keeping clean install images for all of my systems archived (so I usually don't actually need to whip out the Windows 7 install disc, I just clone over a new image with Acronis). I embrace many of these behaviors, and weigh all of my setup choices on my systems against: I'm doing this once now. How hard is this going to be to replicate when I break something and have to set it up again on a clean install.

I do this because I'm such a nerd that I'm constantly shifting to new boxes, and swapping out motherboards, and installing new esoteric video encoding hardware (not to mention that I use a LOT of computers in my daily life). I know it is not "if" but "when" and it won't be long now...

JustinChase · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:20:53 pm »

thanks again glynor, and i hope my comments weren't taken negatively, i didn't mean to imply you were being untruthful, or neglectful, which is kinda how it reads in looking at it again, sorry if they were.

Quote from: glynor on April 21, 2011, 12:38:45 pm

I'm telling you... I do this all the time. I set up MC on a freshly installed VM literally last night.

I really appreciate the help.

also rick.ca, the insurgent is a good suggestion, and as glynor added later, it seems like it's a good tool to eliminate filters with precision.

I installed it and it only came back with CCCP as previously installed, but listed 170 filters registered. I wonder if that's a problem

I installed Win7 when it was first released, and have tried several things in the last 15 or so months since, so I think it might just be time to nuke/pave, vs trying to fix with precision.

I will provide some examples of files that I'm having issues with, mainly for documentation and perhaps program improvement, but will reinstall in the next few/several days. I can't do it sooner, but can live with what i've got working until I do have the time.

I'm going out to take care of some yard/landscape stuff while the sun is still out, but will try to document the failures this evening, or tomorrow if i can.

thanks again for the help, and I hope the reinstall "just works" this time

My original request still stands though, it sure could be a lot easier. I know it's a moving target, but there's a lot of room for improvement in this area.

I don't expect it to "just work" for weird anime files or other oddball stuff, but I sure think the basics could go smoother.

however, I still love this forum!!!

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:24:23 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 21, 2011, 06:20:53 pm

thanks again glynor, and i hope my comments weren't taken negatively, i didn't mean to imply you were being untruthful, or neglectful, which is kinda how it reads in looking at it again, sorry if they were.

None taken.

JustinChase · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2011, 10:16:24 am »

I had a bit of time to take a look last night.

3gp videos don't play at all
AVI is sketchy, TV shows played, home videos crashed MC
MKV's were mostly fine, but sometimes, they would appear to start, then just hang up and MC was unresponsive, and I had to kill it in task manager.

I gave up after that

I'll nuke/pave soon enough, then just do as suggested by Glynor, in that order, and report back. it may be awhile before I make the time, I just don't have 4 hours to spend on that right now

glynor · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2011, 10:38:07 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 22, 2011, 10:16:24 am

3gp videos don't play at all

Do they play if you rename them to .mp4? 3gp is just a limited sub-set of the MP4 container, which only supports certain limited codecs, settings, and resolutions.

Quote from: JustinChase on April 22, 2011, 10:16:24 am

AVI is sketchy, TV shows played, home videos crashed MC

This might actually be a clue... Home videos in AVI's might be compressed using an odd, proprietary codec, so it might be going through a weird non-standard rendering chain. However, there is also a fair likelihood that it could be the software that came with your video/still camera that you're using to make those AVIs!

Many of those consumer camcorder software packages include a bunch of crap you don't need, usually. One of the common things they include is a MPEG-4 ASP/AVC decoding filter, so that your average Windows user can install the software package and use Windows XP to view their home movies without having to know about, download, and install FFDSHOW. Unfortunately, these filters are often extremely poorly designed, and don't work well (or at all) with players other than the ones provided by the camera OEM. They do just enough work to get the filter to decode their particular flavor of the codec, in their particular player/editor, and then they stop working on it, all other media be damned.

For example, I've personally seen this behavior with both Sony camcorder software and Canon software. They install these filters, which are really just craptastic MPEG-4 ASP or AVC filters, which don't work right with any players other than the ones in the package, but they are set as the high-merit filters for many FourCC types and break things in other ways. Sony's consumer video editing and DVD creation apps also do similar things (at least with older versions).

If you have something like this installed for your camcorder, flipcam, still shooter that does video, or whatever... Try uninstalling it completely (including any extra components). Usually you don't need any of that crap at all. Even if you like to use their editor, you can usually install it and keep it from installing the filters and extra crap if you're careful (or systematically figure out what is breaking the output and then manually search-and-destroy just those filters).

Also, before you do the nuke/pave (unless you really want to), I'd do a test with VMWare Player. If you haven't ever used VMWare Player or any virtual machine application, it is really quite slick. You can install Windows on it just like you would any normal machine, and it is quite easy to set up (and free). Unless you have a second spare hard drive, this would be a good way to "test" the nuke/pave without blowing away your currently working system.

glynor · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:15:06 pm »

Also... Are you on build 72? If so, before you do anything, revert back to build 65 (or earlier) and try again. We're still working on tracking down some audio rendering related issues with video files that started with build 66. I think they're mostly resolved, and probably don't really apply to you, but just in case, it might be worth testing the older build.

JustinChase · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:23:35 pm »

thanks again, I'll try to take a look tonight again.

the 3gp files didn't surprise me, so maybe I'll just rename them and see what I get to work.

the AVI's are from my Canon camera. i haven't installed any of their software, ever, that I can remember, but I'll still take a look.

As I said in a post above, i've got 170 filters registered (per Insurgent), so it could be anything really that's causing issues. I'll try to great a graph and see if I can figure out what's taking control, and see if I can't eliminate the offending filter.

as for rolling back, I'll give that a shot also, unless you can convince Matt to release a "fix" today

On a bit of a side note, I copied another version of the Formula 1 race to the thumb drive, mp4 this time, and when I got to work to play the file, I clicked play, and it immediately, without permission, started downloading and installing ffdshow.

why is it okay to do this for ffdshow, but not with other solutions???

anyway, I'll keep plugging away.

thanks again.

glynor · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:28:59 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 22, 2011, 01:23:35 pm

as for rolling back, I'll give that a shot also, unless you can convince Matt to release a "fix" today

I don't think it is actually broken. The new system is technically superior, but can be problematic if your filter or DSP settings weren't correct, even though it "used to work". And one user in the beta board is having a particular problem we're not too sure about yet.

But, these are edge cases. You'd be getting one specific error about audio playback failing, and not crashes or anything, so I really don't think it's the same thing. But, it is worth a shot just in case!

glynor · « **Reply #20 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:32:02 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 22, 2011, 01:23:35 pm

why is it okay to do this for ffdshow, but not with other solutions???

I've seen it do this too in a few cases where I had a real vanilla install. I'm honestly not sure what it is doing there, or what it is downloading, or from where.

It would be nice to hear from Yaobing exactly what the FFDSHOW thing that MC downloads is up to. And, assuming that they are actually doing some automated setup and install, why not do the whole thing this way? If it was able to automatically download and install (and configure properly) a "version" of CCCP-like filters (including Haali for now and maybe madVR/LAV later on), that would be ideal for novice users and a nice product differentiator.

You'd have to ask the lawyers though.

JustinChase · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2011, 10:57:06 pm »

Okay, I'm testing on my laptop again, the HTPC is in use now. i installed Windows7 x64 on this machine fresh about 6 weeks ago (I like SSD

) I've never installed a codec pack, and Insurgent found 98 filters. I'm using ffdshow 3771 and MC 16.72

Quote from: glynor on April 22, 2011, 10:38:07 am

Do they play if you rename them to .mp4?

Yes, but then the next one played fine and I had not changed the extension, several more then played fine. The laptop couldn't play them last time, but I unregistered/removed the LAV splitter and audio, then installed the new version, which says...

"The default mode changed. I changed the filter registration, so that by default, it always tries to go through the "File Source (Async)"
and
"Another bonus side effect of this change is that LAV Splitter can now demux a whole lot of other formats without registry hacking. MPC-HC, for example, always trys to load the File Source (Async), for any file, and will always try to connect it to LAV Splitter - that means i can ask ffmpeg to probe and try to demux the file, and if its supported, it'll just start playing. Formats do not need to be registered manually anymore. I don't know which other players always insert the File Source as a backup filter, but heck, its a useful feature in MPC-HC. "

maybe that "fixed" it. MC may/can/does benefit from this change??

for 3gp files
Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)'

Filter 'madVR'

Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'

Filter 'Mpeg4s Decoder DMO'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'

Filter 'LAV Splitter'

Filter 'V:\Canon\2010-09-25 EVO\filename.3gp'
CLSID: {E436EBB5-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
Host: c:\windows\syswow64\quartz.dll
Output Pin 'Output'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Splitter'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {08E22ADA-B715-45ED-9D20-7B87750301D4}, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE

AVI files are playing here now also. however, it's using
Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'Video Renderer'

Filter 'DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'

Filter 'Color Space Converter'

Filter 'MJPEG Decompressor'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'

Filter 'LAV Splitter'
CLSID: {171252A0-8820-4AFE-9DF8-5C92B2D66B04}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\lav filters\x86\lavsplitter.ax
Input Pin 'Input'
Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'V:\Canon\bufalo3.avi'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Avi, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE
Output Pin 'Video'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MJPG, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo
Output Pin 'Audio'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

Which seems like an odd assortment, but it is working, so fine with me.

the first flv file I tried to play here resulted in MC automatically downloading and installing something for about 5 seconds, then the video started playing. Again, why can't this be done for mkv files??

Anyway, it's not using LAV splitter at all, so I'm not sure how MC is choosing what to use??

Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)'

Filter 'madVR'

Filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder'

Filter 'FFDShow Video Decoder'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'

Filter 'FLV Source'
CLSID: {C9ECE7B3-1D8E-41F5-9F24-B255DF16C087}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\j river\media center 16\plugins\flvsplitter.ax
Output Pin 'Video'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Output Pin 'Audio'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {000000FF-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

my only MOV file (canon SD1400) plays video decent enough, but the audio is all scratchy and crappy. i don't think this is how it recorded, but I suppose it is possible, I haven't tried playing it with anything else yet

Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)'

Filter 'madVR'

Filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'

Filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'

Filter 'MP4 Source'
CLSID: {3CCC052E-BDEE-408A-BEA7-90914EF2964B}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\j river\media center 16\plugins\mp4splitter.ax
Output Pin 'Output 1'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Output Pin 'Output 2'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {74776F73-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

mp4 files play fine

Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)'

Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'

Filter 'Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder'

Filter 'FFDShow Video Decoder'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'

Filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'

Filter 'MP4 Source'
CLSID: {3CCC052E-BDEE-408A-BEA7-90914EF2964B}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\j river\media center 16\plugins\mp4splitter.ax
Output Pin '(C) 2007 Google Inc. v08.13.2007.'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Audio'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {000000FF-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Output Pin '(C) 2007 Google Inc. v08.13.2007.'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Media Proxy Video'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31637661-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

MPEG settings were already set prior to testing (so not automatic), it had been set to use LAV splitter source, and J River Video decoder, which worked, but it was actually using the microsoft video decoder. I tried changing it to use the new LAV Splitter, but it was not an option. I selected File Source (Async.) and that resulted in it using the new LAV splitter, which also worked fine. the J River video decoder is still resulting in it using the Microsoft DTV-DVD video Decoder, which works fine. selecting ffdshow video decoder instead resulted in the same MS filter being used. MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG in AVI & Other MPEG2 are all disabled in ffdshow. i didn't try enabling any of them, it works as it is.

MPG files are the same as above, but the TV show I have recorded OTA is very interlaced, and not really watchable. I enabled MPEG2 decoding in ffdshow and confirmed it was active, then turned on deinterlacing, and it seems to be gone, but the video is pretty bad with jaggies, but is also a SD program recorded OTA on an "extra" channel, so it's pretty poor quality to begin with, but it's pretty unwatchable.

TS file crashed MC and closed it

WMV files played fine

Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)'

Filter 'madVR'

Filter 'WMVideo Decoder DMO'

Filter 'WMAudio Decoder DMO'

Filter 'ASF Reader'
CLSID: {187463A0-5BB7-11D3-ACBE-0080C75E246E}
Host: c:\windows\syswow64\qasf.dll
Output Pin 'Raw Audio 0'
Connected to pin 'in0' of filter 'WMAudio Decoder DMO'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {00000161-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Output Pin 'Raw Video 1'
Connected to pin 'in0' of filter 'WMVideo Decoder DMO'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {33564D57-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2

the same story as mpeg above, but the splitter had been set for automatic, which choose LAV splitter source, but changing to async made it use the new LAV splitter

I will also add that it responded to seeking (using the right arrow key) instantly, literally, it instantly jumped ahead, not even a hesitation. this is amazing. I stopped using Media Center for TV because the seeking took almost as long as just letting it play; tens of seconds at times to skip forward; it was absurd. this is instant; fantastic.

MKV files: seem to mostly work, but they're all HD, and streaming to the laptop is problematic anyway, so nothing definite can be said other than sound worked, and video played, but was very choppy on 3 or 4 samples. with all the video and audio possibilities, I'll try to test this more on the HTPC later.

I don't know how or why MC chooses the filters it chooses, but it mostly works without even installing CCCP.

MKV, not so much.

I know there may be better options for some of the formats, but working it a big first step.

TS files crashed MC, MOV file had audio issue, but I don't have QT installed, so working at all is nice, and MKV don't yet "just work", but I hope I can get it mostly working on the HTPC after removing all the crap on there, even if I have to force that machine to use the setting above that automatic chose on this machine.

okay, end of a long post - I hope someone finds this information useful, it took a bit to compile

Daydream · « **Reply #22 on:** April 23, 2011, 07:08:55 pm »

Justin, let me ask you this, kind of the funny way: is there a video format / container that you DON'T want to play? Because it seems to me you are bent on collecting every possible one out there. It's still a reasonable choice, your choice, but I wouldn't say it's the best choice (just my opinion). 3gp, mov, avi - for me these fall into "what are all these junk formats" category. Purely technically speaking they all should work, and with some work they will work, but as this thread is proof enough they do NOT work unless you spent time and time again, and once you'll reach the perfect setup who knows what may happen, everything will go crazy and you'll have to start again.

So technically, yes playback should and will work at some point, and people here will be eager to help. But as a strategy to collect anything video it's a bad one. I have too some videos as avi, mov, whatnot, but that's 0.001% of my collection, some stuff archived somewhere. All my files are kept in 2, max 3 formats (containers). Yes it requires the time to remux files, etc but I don't have to worry to create crazy decoding chains for some strange format. A different strategy to collect video files may help you more.

JustinChase · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2011, 08:15:55 am »

I can see why you'd ask

, but the title of the thread is really the concern for me, mkv's don't all "just play" for me, and with all of this testing it seems "automatic" seemingly picks at random which filters to use for whatever file type, and they don't go back to what they were prior after a person changes it back to automatic, so there seems to be no way to get it back to what may have worked in the past, without trial and error.

I can play 4 or 5 mkvs in a row, and they are all fine, then the next one has an issue, due to the stream contained within, or some other thing I don't yet understand.

While I was testing the filters and CCCP it seemed prudent to test with all file types, since fixing one thing seems to break another on my system, it seemed to make sense. I don't have many files of any of the weird types you mention; but I do have a view scheme already that lists file type, so it was easy to test one or 2 of each type. The 3gp files come off my EVO, the avi's mostly came off my Canon, the only MOV is from the new Canon (maybe i can change this in camera), the point being, I'm not specifically searching out weird codecs, and from the list of file types listed in MC, I wouldn't be doing very well if I were trying to collect them all

.

Also, I don't have the time right now to mess with remuxing or transcoding, and I don't want to have to do it regularly. I'll continue taking videos with my phone and camera, so I'd rather the player just work with the results, than me do more work to conform to some odd constraints of the best software player created.

I just figure if they are going to hopefully make using one file type easier, or more automatic, why not more types. I thought the information might be helpful to others that might be having problems, and searching might show them what one user had experienced. i know that kind of post has helped me in my searching.

As I said, my main concern is mkv, and with it becoming ever more popular, it seems odd that it's not handled better internally.

the J river team has a vast experience in working with these filters and codecs, and must have one or 2 successful solutions on one of their systems somewhere. Why can't MC search for the known working filters on a system and offer to make custom settings for me to get it to a known working status. Automatic seems like it should do that, but only if one installs CCCP at the right point in the process, and not if you've ever messed with settings.

I often wonder if Jim is simply satisfied with the current amount of business J River receives and isn't super motivated to make it so easy that it really takes off commercially. He'd have a hiring bonanza and a big corporate culture to deal with if they got that kind of commercial success; and I'm not sure it'd be worth all the trouble. i would have even more respect for him if that were the case (but it'd sure be nice to know, so I stop making suggestions that won't be considered:))

I wonder if j river could comment on their opinion of the "automatic"ness of MC with MKV files. Does everyone you know there have NO problems with playing whatever MKV file, and I'm just a loon who's done something stupid to myself, and there simply isn't any need to simplify this system? or are there at least tentative plans to improve this functionality?

I've seen (and made) several suggestions on things that could be improved upon here, but other that Matt saying he'd like to improve it about 6 to 9 months ago, i haven't really seen much change here.

Just curious. thanks.

Daydream · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2011, 04:23:52 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 24, 2011, 08:15:55 am

The 3gp files come off my EVO, the avi's mostly came off my Canon, the only MOV is from the new Canon (maybe i can change this in camera), the point being, I'm not specifically searching out weird codecs, and from the list of file types listed in MC, I wouldn't be doing very well if I were trying to collect them all .

I was afraid you gonna say something like that. For me these choices don't quite make sense. Maybe I'm a bit behind with the news about EVO (and what Android version / Mod might be running on it), but the way I remember recording on it meant variable frame rates - very low framerates in certain instances, very poor (mono, low bitrates) sound in whatever AMR, voice-oriented codec, and so on. 720p is actually in MPEG-4 part 2, not h264. Not good even for satisfying a YouTube addiction, let alone for collection for some better purpose.

If I want to shoot movies I get something that shoots movies; a cam that attaches to the helmet while you ride a bike, whatever

. It should be 720p H264 in mp4 or I'm walking away. Otherwise it's a just a never ending string of gadgets that pretend to do some video recording, and you end up spending more time with their whatever output then actually getting somewhere.

Anyways, I too agree that I'd like to hear from JRiver some more about this whole automatic, or otherwise codec management (for mkv or other stuff). There are some problems with the current approach. If a user's choice does not work a message to the likes of "the chosen filters [if possible include more details here] refuse to connect" will give the user a hint that what he does is not right. If, on the other hand, a lot of the internals are left at the mercy of DS filter merits ("we wash our hands for what comes after that") that's bad too, since a user does not have a tool handy to fix that (hence my thought above to implement a DS filter management tool - register, unregister, merit changes).

JustinChase · « **Reply #25 on:** April 25, 2011, 02:00:19 pm »

Yeah, but I have no desire to purchase another thing to take video, and to have to carry it around. My phone and digital camera shoot good enough videos for my needs. $:-\$

I'm not shooting movies per se, I'm just trying to capture some moments in time to remember them, not produce the best quality possible.

as they say, to each his own

glynor · « **Reply #26 on:** April 25, 2011, 02:24:56 pm »

As Chase Jarvis said, the best camera is the one you have with you.

JustinChase · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2011, 11:16:16 pm »

Well, I spent about 6 hours ensuring everything was backed up, then on the nuke/pave of the HTPC.

After installation of Win7x64,

I installed the latest ATI drivers 11-3 (I see there is newer version now, I'll update that after the wife gives up the TV).
I then installed SP1
I then installed all windows updates, less IE9
I then spent an hour trying to get the ATI driver to NOT need to be underscanned to display properly. I had to change the input type on the TV to PC to get it display properly. After restarting, I had to underscan again; I don't have any idea why. After another 30 minutes or so, I changed the resolution outside of the Catalyst Control Center (r-click the desktop, changed it here to something less, then went back into the CCC and changed back to 1920 x 1080, and it seems to have stuck this time)
I then installed LAV filters
I then installed madVR
I then ran Windows Media Center setup to make sure it worked fine, and to try to restore the scheduled recordings. I couldn't restore the schedule, but I did notice that the recordings I had already recorded were showing thumbnails/images which I don't recall ever seeing before this; nice.
I then installed J River Media Center, and included the settings from the backup. (In retrospect, this may have been a bad idea, since it included the file type/video playback settings I had made/changed prior to the reinstall, meaning the video playback settings are not the default settings.) I set MC to handle all file types offered during setup
I then checked to make sure WMC was still working, and noticed the nice thumbs/images are now gone; not so nice
I then started checking video playback in MC; and I'm very, very sad to report that it appears to work worse than before I started any of this. 3gp files no longer play back, the AVI files from my devices also don't playback. they both fail with complaints about the audio not working properly I"m just trying to send to the HDMI output, using WASAPI. I tried to change the options here, but I can't see the "save" button on this dialog, so there is no way to save any changes!! Why can't I maximize or resize this window?!?!?!
I then tried some other video files, and some work, some don't.

At one point, when I tried a flv file, it downloaded and installed ffdshow (which I purposely had not installed yet, just to test what worked without it). Why can it download and install this without my having the ability to prevent it, yet it can't do something similar for other file types?!? this makes no sense to me. it actually said it was downloading and installing twice; I have NO IDEA what the other thing was. When I checked, it installed a build from dec 2009; not exactly recent

I have not installed CCCP, and maybe this will solve it, but I have very little faith in this resolving all my issues at this point (since I think it uses the same version of ffdshow), and am pretty despondent about MC video playback at this point.

I'm not a complete idiot about this stuff. NO, I'm nowhere near an expert at this point either, but I think I have a better-than-decent grasp on all this, and I can't get it to work. How does J River expect an average person to make this work?!?!?!?

Seriously, how?

I uninstalled ffdshow, and many of the files still play, but I will install the most recent version tomorrow, and try to make some other changes based on the hours of research on other sites, mainly the LAVsplitter thread on doom9, which has been very interesting to follow.

I'm sure I'll eventually figure it out, but wanted to update on my "progress" so far.

Is there any chance of getting the "automatic" setting to actually search out a working solution to playback, vs. the apparent functionality of just hiding my choices, but not actually changing anything?

I realize I have not yet tried the CCCP install, but others have virtually every filetype/streamtype working with just LAV, ffdshow and madVR, but I haven't gotten there yet.

I was up until 2:30 am, and up again at 6:45, trying to finish this project; so I'm pretty tired and frustrated, and so I'm going to bed now.

I'll report back later, if anyone cares.

struct · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2011, 01:58:16 am »

mmm. Sounds a little like my recent annoyance. I have MC working quite well on main HTPC (I am using sharky codecs on it for some reason lost in my memory).

Installed nice new fresh W7 32bit on laptop and MC and CCCP. I think it was in that order. I recall, but am not sure, that there was a gap between trying to play an avi and installing CCCP. On the first attempt to play an avi, MC tried its automatic downloading thing but it didn't work, and it was at that point I installed CCCP. Without luck AVI files and other's wouldn't play nice with MC. Unistalled CCCP, and reinstalled. Still no luck.

I unistalled CCCP and MC16. Installed CCCP then Installed MC16 (in that order), and everything worked. No idea why, as graphedt showed exactly the same filters in use before and after. Just did.

Craig

Sauzee · « **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:19:46 am »

I agree with everything JustinChase has written. I too have had significant problems getting MC to play video without major issues. This has always been the case. It's not an issue specifically related to MC16 or to a specific hardware setup. It happens on fresh OS installs too. MC just doesn't work out of the box, even with CCCP installed, and is incredibly difficult to configure. If automatic playback method doesn't work, the choice of source filters, others filters etc is just bewildering.

I love MC, but video playback has always been the weak spot for me.

BryanC · « **Reply #30 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:51:02 am »

One problem I'm having is that MC won't "let go" (leave exclusive mode) of my soundcard after I have watched a movie with an AC3 or DTS track. I'll press "stop" and then try to play any file (flac, mp3, mkv w/ac3) and it says my soundcard does not support the output format. I then go into my soundcard settings and play a test sound and it says that the soundcard is still in use. My receiver indicates that it is receiving a DTS signal over HDMI even after the movie has stopped. I have to restart MC16 in order to play the next track.

Is there some way to "flush" the soundcard once I have hit "stop?"

I am currently using LAV Audio to play back my DD+ and DTS streams.

Yaobing · « **Reply #31 on:** May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on April 24, 2011, 08:15:55 am

I can play 4 or 5 mkvs in a row, and they are all fine, then the next one has an issue, due to the stream contained within, or some other thing I don't yet understand.

Perhaps your different mkv files contain video that were compressed using different compression methods.

If you set playback method for mkv to "Automatic", MC chooses DirectShow. And MC does check and use your previously selected filters (even if you changed playback method from "JRiver Video Engine (using DirectShow filters)" to "Automatic"). If you see MC using different set of filters, it just means your previous selection does not work for this particular file, and we have to rely on DirectShow to pick a set of filters.

Most times it works. Occasionally it does not work. This is a big issue with DirectShow. In an ideal world, or in a world the DirectShow architects originally envisioned, no user needs to pick any filters. DirectShow should automatically pick the correct one, assuming the correct ones do exist on the user's machine. In the real world, it is a mess, partly because some filter developers do a bad job.

In your case, the mkv files that do not play may contain video that require special decoders that you do not have on your computer.

For most people, CCCP is a good and sufficient solution because it contain filters (most notably, FFDShow) that can decode media of most compressions.

If may help if you use something like MediaInfo to show info on the file that does not play.

MOV files are messier than mkv files because some can be played in DirectShow but some require Quicktime. Since your MOV file did play in DirectShow, the bad sound quality probably is caused by bad audio decoder. Again, depending the compression of the audio stream, DirectShow will pick a decoder, but DirectShow does not know which decoder does a better job. That is when user selection comes into play.

JustinChase · « **Reply #32 on:** May 05, 2011, 03:34:13 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

Perhaps your different mkv files contain video that were compressed using different compression methods.

most/all are Blu-Ray rips, ripped using MakeMKV. I believe they are all the untouched streams from the disc, so not compressed, but certainly different formats. I figure it's some format/stream causing issues, but i was too tired to investigate more

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

If you set playback method for mkv to "Automatic", ... we have to rely on DirectShow to pick a set of filters.

Most times it works. Occasionally it does not work. This is a big issue with DirectShow. In an ideal world, or in a world the DirectShow architects originally envisioned, no user needs to pick any filters. DirectShow should automatically pick the correct one, assuming the correct ones do exist on the user's machine. In the real world, it is a mess, partly because some filter developers do a bad job.

I agree. However, relying on merit and good fortune to do this seems less ideal than J River implementing their own "merit" system, whereby you know what will decode a certain stream properly, and forcing direct show to follow your internal selection "merit" criteria. letting some filter someone installed one day for whatever reason with crazy high merit take over when you know something else works fine, and is more common seems like a bad plan.

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

In your case, the mkv files that do not play may contain video that require special decoders that you do not have on your computer.

very likely, but a meaningful error message, with a suggested resolution would be VERY welcome

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

For most people, CCCP is a good and sufficient solution because it contain filters (most notably, FFDShow) that can decode media of most compressions.

If may help if you use something like MediaInfo to show info on the file that does not play.

I agree CCCP will/should work most of the time, as Glynor has pointed out. However, is it really necessary to install 40 or 50 more filters in case they might be needed someday? if so, can't MC grab/install something automatically like it does with ffdshow? why is this an acceptable option for a flv file, but not for an mkv file for example?

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

MOV files are messier than mkv files because some can be played in DirectShow but some require Quicktime.

agreed. I only hoped it would work since I've seen recent comments saying you've gotten better at handling many apple formats that used to require QT

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

Since your MOV file did play in DirectShow, the bad sound quality probably is caused by bad audio decoder.

probably, but I think it was using/trying to use LAV audio, which I thought should work, could be wrong about that.

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

Again, depending the compression of the audio stream, DirectShow will pick a decoder, but DirectShow does not know which decoder does a better job. That is when user selection comes into play.

This is exactly my point, you guys must test all kinds of stuff there, can't you step in and override directshow's incompetence here and use your own experience in what works to steer this to a working solution?

I know you can't do this for every file/codec type, but the 10 most common should cover 90% of the common users needs, no?

Again, I want to emphasize that I LOVE MC, and the general responsiveness of the developers, but sometimes the silence is frustrating.

if I knew you wanted to make this better, and were working on it, I'd relax a bit, but not knowing that you even see it as an issue to be dealt with makes me assume you just don't care to improve it, and I'll have to continue fighting to watch videos

I'm hoping to have some more time tonight to mess around a bit, and will try to have another report on what works and what doesn't.

I've been following the LAVsplitter thread on the doom9 forum, http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191 and it seems to handle most everything at this point. I'll get the latest build when I get home and get back to testing and report back.

thanks again for the helpful feedback, I really do appreciate it!

rick.ca · « **Reply #33 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm »

Quote

thanks again for the helpful feedback, I really do appreciate it!

I don't know how to say this diplomatically, so I'll have to hope this is true...

It seems the steps you're choosing to resolve the issue are being unduly influenced by your expectations of how things should work. Despite the consistent recommendation of developers and knowledgeable users alike, you still haven't started with a simple default installation of CCCP. Video configuration is complicated and frustrating. The name of the game for most of us is to find something that works, and then leave it alone. The very reason for CCCP's existence is that it just works for most people most of the time. It's an obvious choice—if not for a complete solution, at least a reasonable starting point. With it working, you can then proceed with the more challenging task of getting the few things it won't handle working, or installing other filters for better performance (e.g., CoreAVC) or quality (e.g., madVR).

Quote

Again, I want to emphasize that I LOVE MC, and the general responsiveness of the developers, but sometimes the silence is frustrating.

This too, along with the suggestion the developers don't care, seems to be based on your expectations of how things should work. There's not much to be said when your assumptions are incorrect and the expectations flowing from them are not feasible. The solution that would come closest to what you're looking for would be an installation routine that removes all existing filters from the system and installs CCCP. Most users would find that unacceptable. And as you already know, that still won't be a perfect solution for all users all the time.

It's not difficult to see the dilemma facing the developers. Sophisticated users have lot's of good reasons for wishing the configuration could be done by specifying a filter for each stream type. This would avoid the problems arising from a system that attempts to do so by container type. But for the majority of users who have a very limited understanding of how all this works, it would make things even more difficult to configure correctly. At the same time, there's not much point in offering some kind of "one-size-fits-all" solution when this approach is already covered quite well by CCCP.

JustinChase · « **Reply #34 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:00:48 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

I don't know how to say this diplomatically, so I'll have to hope this is true...

I don't know what you meant to say, but it sounds like you are implying that I was being insincere, which I find rather insulting. I find any helpful feedback or help from anyone, especially the developers, very welcome. No one is required to help me with anything, so when they do, I appreciate it. I think if you read any of my posts, you'll find I'm appreciative of any help I receive.

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

It seems the steps you're choosing to resolve the issue are being unduly influenced by your expectations of how things should work.

My expectations are that “automatic” should work, and that if it doesn’t I’d get a meaningful message to help me correct it. I realize that it doesn’t, but you sound like that’s an absurd expectation. I disagree.

The steps I've chosen have been to install CCCP and try it, it didn't work. Then I wiped the machine, and reinstalled everything from scratch. I thought it would be useful to just try MC “out of the box” and see what worked. I thought that feedback from that attempt might be useful to someone. I also said that I had not tried CCCP yet, meaning that I intend to do that if I can’t get it working without it, which is what will likely happen.

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

Despite the consistent recommendation of developers and knowledgeable users alike, you still haven't started with a simple default installation of CCCP.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I purchased J River Media Center, not CCCP. Wouldn’t a good starting point be the basic installation of the program I’m trying to use, not some entirely different product? I get that installing CCCP is a common solution, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect everyone to have to install CCCP before doing anything else, and if that were the developers’ expectation, I would think that would be in big capital letters on a sticky post somewhere and/or an error message inside the program.

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

Video configuration is complicated and frustrating. The name of the game for most of us is to find something that works, and then leave it alone. The very reason for CCCP's existence is that it just works for most people most of the time. It's an obvious choice—if not for a complete solution, at least a reasonable starting point. With it working, you can then proceed with the more challenging task of getting the few things it won't handle working, or installing other filters for better performance (e.g., CoreAVC) or quality (e.g., madVR).

Yes, it is complicated. However, "find[ing] something that works, and then leave it alone." has not yet been obtained on my system. I’ve suggested some ideas to help relieve some of that.

Installing CCCP because it’s got so much stuff that it’s bound to work with most everything is similar to going to Sears and buying the biggest tool set they offer so that I would likely have everything I could ever need, but I don’t see that as the best solution to changing the oil in my car. Yeah, it would probably work, but is it the “best” way?

If I have to “fine tune” MC after installing CCCP for a couple of things, how is that really different from having to find and fix a couple more things without it installed? If I have to figure out what one problem is and fix it, what’s 3 more, really?

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

This too, along with the suggestion the developers don't care, seems to be based on your expectations of how things should work. There's not much to be said when your assumptions are incorrect and the expectations flowing from them are not feasible.

When/where did I suggest that the devs don’t care??? I said not knowing if they see these things as problems is frustrating, and I’m not the only one to express this opinion.

As for my expectations, I covered this above. I fail to see how having the “automatic” setting “just work” is not feasible. It works just fine for the FLV file I tried to play. MC downloaded whatever it felt it needed, installed it, and then played the file. Perfect! Why is it an incorrect assumption that this could work for a different file type, MKV for example??

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

The solution that would come closest to what you're looking for would be an installation routine that removes all existing filters from the system and installs CCCP. Most users would find that unacceptable. And as you already know, that still won't be a perfect solution for all users all the time.

What?!?!?!

Who ever said anything about removing existing filters from a system? I would NEVER want my media player to do this!!! It would be unacceptable.

The solutions I’ve suggested are NOTHING like what you wrote above. Perhaps you should read what I wrote again (if you even read it in the first place).

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

It's not difficult to see the dilemma facing the developers. Sophisticated users have lots of good reasons for wishing the configuration could be done by specifying a filter for each stream type. This would avoid the problems arising from a system that attempts to do so by container type. But for the majority of users who have a very limited understanding of how all this works, it would make things even more difficult to configure correctly.

Yeah, maybe it’s a dilemma.

I suggested that a container is better suited to selecting splitters (and renderers maybe), but not filters, as who knows what’s in the container. And that streams/codecs are better suited to selecting filters, as you know exactly what you’re choosing for.

You’re right in that the majority of users don’t have any idea how this all works, so they’re taking a stab in the dark with either system you suggest, so what does it really matter to them? This is where “automatic” should just work; for the vast majority of users that just want to watch a video, not learn another language.

Quote from: rick.ca on May 05, 2011, 05:08:17 pm

At the same time, there's not much point in offering some kind of "one-size-fits-all" solution when this approach is already covered quite well by CCCP.

I completely and totally disagree with you on this. “Automatic” should be exactly that, a “one-size-fits-all” solution. That’s exactly the point/purpose of Automatic, isn’t it?

Forcing a user come to the forums, search all over the place to discover that they need to install something else should not be the expectation. However, if that is the expectation of J River, then at least tell me that when my video fails to play.

Giving me some obscure message that there is some problem with my audio and to do some vague thing to fix it is NOT a good solution, and it doesn’t work for me. If I just need to have CCCP installed to get videos to play, make it VERY CLEAR to me when the problem arises.

there are several threads jmone has started and maintained on selecting filters and video playback in general (THANK YOU FOR THOSE!!!), and I don't see that he (or anyone there) has installed CCCP as their working solution. I don't think this is the ONLY way to get video working properly in MC. Maybe I'm mistaken about that, again.

Again, to be perfectly clear, I’m not saying that I expect this to all work perfect for every file, all the time, right out of the box, without a user needing to contribute. (it would be fantastic, but an unreasonable expectation)

I am saying, PLEASE improve how it works. I think I’ve provided a few ideas on how it could be improved, and I’ve asked a few questions as to how it currently works.

Okay, now that I've wasted an hour on this unnecessary response, I'll get back to testing and tweaking, and will report back any progress.

BryanC · « **Reply #35 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:10:26 pm »

I'm staying out of this but I just want to say that filters/splitters/renderers are a beast in their own right. What works for some people may not (will not) work for others. Expecting JRiver to automatically choose these for the user would not be a good idea and this forum would become tech support for hardware and codec problems even though they are independent of the program.

A video driver update shouldn't affect JRiver but it can definitely affect Directshow filters. Expecting JRiver to keep on top of these changes would be too much to ask.

kensn · « **Reply #36 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:14:23 pm »

Quote from the WIKI.....

What filters do I need and where do I get them?
The answer depends on what media format you want to play. In general you will need decoder filters and, in many cases, you will also need splitter filters. You can obtain commercial filters from various vendors. You can also get free, open source, filters. In this guide we will tell you about some free filters.

Before getting to individual media formats, it is a good idea to introduce/recommend CCCP, a multi-filter and multi-format decoder package. If all you want is for your video and audio files to work reliably, with a minimum of effort (and no money), then CCCP is probably the way to go.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #37 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:37:03 pm »

You know what I'd like? An option somewhere to set a default set of filters and then an option to be able to quickly apply them to multiple video formats.

Daydream · « **Reply #38 on:** May 05, 2011, 08:29:31 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on May 05, 2011, 10:21:46 am

If you set playback method for mkv to "Automatic", MC chooses DirectShow. And MC does check and use your previously selected filters (even if you changed playback method from "JRiver Video Engine (using DirectShow filters)" to "Automatic"). If you see MC using different set of filters, it just means your previous selection does not work for this particular file, and we have to rely on DirectShow to pick a set of filters.

Mmm, if I understand this right, I have a problem with the concept. This is abracadabra, best-guess-strategy. This is not programmatic, you can't troubleshoot something like this. If I make a good choice about filters a file will play. If I make a bad choice of filters the file might still play...! If I make a bad choice and the file doesn't play, I don't why it doesn't play: because my choice was bad (filters do not connect), because the filters are missing, because MC tried to do some pick and mix between installed filters, hit a wall and couldn't use some arbitrary combination it got to, etc.

Because of the above and maybe of some other details that remain unclear to this day, there is one instance that makes troubleshooting difficult even for a pro: a set of filters will work in a GraphStudio custom graph (filters picked by hand, not by merit) and they will not work in MC. Not right away anyway. That undercuts any effort to explain to somebody in trouble "here's how you get to a bullet proof solution". There is no golden path. It's only trial and error. For a pro, 10-15 minutes tops. For somebody else - may be days. I understand and agree that DirectShow is a mess, but are you gonna leave it to that, or help your application with some additional tools and options? Apparently catering for a common denominator like CCCP+MC picking stuff in the background does not quite resolve half the problems. What will happen when upon reading flamboyant posts about LAV filters, madvr and the likes even Johnny Sixpack will want them? CCCP is not gonna cut it.

On the other hand, Justin, I'm sure that you were aware MC will play files using DirectShow, WMP engine, Quicktime Engine, etc. Don't focus that much (my opinion) on CCCP just because everybody and their friends recommend it here as the first step. Just as you bought MC and not CCCP, you didn't buy the Haali splitter, madvr, the filters from MPC-HC and whatever else can be used with MC. And those are required too, for some illusory grasp on the last edge of the digital... meh, I'm getting poetic here.

So, let's get somewhere. Post some files / parts of files of those that don't work. If that's not an option post the MediaInfo description for some of those files. Maybe we can break the circle then.

JustinChase · « **Reply #39 on:** May 05, 2011, 09:15:56 pm »

Quote from: SamuriHL on May 05, 2011, 07:37:03 pm

You know what I'd like? An option somewhere to set a default set of filters and then an option to be able to quickly apply them to multiple video formats.

yes, good idea. or maybe to set up the default set of filters that "automatic" uses, with an option to change for specific formats/types. basically as it is now, but set what automatic defaults too.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #40 on:** May 05, 2011, 09:23:22 pm »

Right, my idea is basically in the video section of the config have a place to set default splitter, default filters, default renderers. (We have SOME of that already, right? Just extend that a bit to allow video and audio decoders and stuff like that, as well). Those become the "default" used by automatic. Otherwise I have to mirror it for every video type I want. Being able to customize it per type is great...don't lose that. But allow me to set a nice default so when I change it I don't have to replicate it to 10 different video types.

JustinChase · « **Reply #41 on:** May 05, 2011, 09:30:03 pm »

Quote from: Daydream on May 05, 2011, 08:29:31 pm

So, let's get somewhere. Post some files / parts of files of those that don't work. If that's not an option post the MediaInfo description for some of those files. Maybe we can break the circle then.

I've been working on that, but wifey wanted me to take her to get some grub, and I just got back. I'll post more later, but this is what I've got so far.

.3gp files
Automatic - didn't work
added ffdshow Audio - didn't work
removed LAV audio - didn't work
checked the file in MediaInfo and see that the Audio is
Format : AMR
Format/Info : Adaptive Multi-Rate
Format_Profile : Narrow band
CodecID : samr
Duration/String : 11s 260ms
BitRate_Mode/String : Constant
BitRate/String : 12.8 Kbps
Channel(s)/String : 1 channel
SamplingRate/String : 8 000 Hz
BitDepth/String : 13 bits
StreamSize/String : 17.6 KiB (0%)
Encoded_Library/String : pvmm
configured ffdshow audio to use libavcodec (only option) for AMR - didn't work
rendered the file using GraphStudio and it shows LAV audio and RDP DShow Redirection filter as the only compatible filters for the audio.

Only LAV would actually load. when I r-clicked LAV Audio, properties,

it showed the LAV audio config page, which showed
Input:
Channels: 1
Sample: 8000
codec: amrnb

and Output
Decode: not running
Output: 32bit Float
and it shows a full green bar for the C channel

so it looks like it knows about the file, but just won't decode it. I probably need to install QT to get this working. I'll try that later.

.AVI files
some work, some don't
automatic didn't work
one file that doesn't play shows the audio is
Format : PCM
Format_Settings_Sign : Unsigned
CodecID : 1
CodecID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration/String : 15s 300ms
BitRate_Mode/String : Constant
BitRate/String : 88.2 Kbps

LAV properties from GraphStudio shows
Input:
Channels: 1
Sample: 11024
Codec: pcm_u8

Output:
Decode: Not Running
Output: 8bit integer
and it shows a full green bar for the C channel

I'm not sure what will render this one properly

I'll post both of these in the LAV thread, as nev has been VERY responsive to failures. I don't expect him to fix either of these, but maybe he can, so it's worth posting.

Daydream · « **Reply #42 on:** May 05, 2011, 10:05:44 pm »

So, at first sight: it is pretty obvious that you have some rare format types of streams in there, so at this point (for me at least) there is no surprise that you struggle so much with your files. My advice above, to get rid of these in favor of a... better life

, still stands, but it's your choice.

There are not many DirectShow filters for AMR (and there are more than one AMR type). I don't know what ffdshow or LAV audio can do with it, cause I don't have a 3gp file around (but if you post a sample I'll gladly dissect it).

Monogram worked on a filter for AMR here. It might help, but you'll have to register the filter by hand.

The avi file is just as interesting as the 3gp file. I wonder what formats were forced into the poor old container. PCM_U8 is supported by ffmpeg, therefore ffdshow should be able to deal with it (as a first guess have Mulaw/Alaw format enabled in ffdshow audio).

rick.ca · « **Reply #43 on:** May 05, 2011, 10:13:32 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on May 05, 2011, 07:00:48 pm

Okay, now that I've wasted an hour on this unnecessary response, I'll get back to testing and tweaking, and will report back any progress.

Wow. It really wasn't necessary to demonstrate how insightful my observation was. It was intended to help. You might have installed and configured CCCP several times over in that hour. But I suppose such an easy solution to your "problem" would throw a wet towel on the spurious argument the developers are uncaring and negligent in not providing an "automatic" solution.

JustinChase · « **Reply #44 on:** May 05, 2011, 11:05:04 pm »

insightful?!?! You continue to miss the entire point of the whole thing. If I had just copied my roommates papers in college, that would have been pretty fast and easy too, but what would I have learned? Just because something works doesn't mean it's the best way.

Please don't respond to any more of my posts, you are really not helpful to me. telling me I'm spurious for wanting "automatic" to work automatically is ... well ... useless. And ONCE AGAIN - I never said the devs were uncaring or negligent - I honestly don't know what you are reading, but you can stop now. the rest of this post doesn't concern you.

Here are some more testing results...

.flv file

originally crashed media center. after restarting MC, it played, but there was no sound. I know this played fine before, what's going on?!?

It turns out that sometimes something changes the input on my AVR to AV4, which seems to work the same as HDMI, but didn't play sound. Changing the AVR back to HDMI gave me sound back. I'll look into this issue later.

.mkv files

the first one played fine, but had ovbious interlacing issues for some reason. I checked, and it's using the Microsoft DTV-DVD filter. I double checked and it's set to use ffdshow Video decoder, but it's not.

I changed ffdshow options for mpeg 1 & 2 from disabled to ffmpeg2 and it's now using ffdshow to decode and interlacing is gone. success

mkv with AVC video and AC-3 audio - works

mkv with AVC video and PCM audio - works

mkv with VC-1 video and DTS (MA core) - opens, but won't start playing anything. it's trying to use WMVideo decoder DMO. I think I've seen some way to use a different video decoder here, I'll look into that later.

mkv with AVC video and DTS audio - didn't work, which surprised me. the movie is Avatar, and MC reports that it's using ffdshow, but GraphStudio says it's using Microsoft DTS-DVD decoder; weird. here is the video info

Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=24
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 41mn
Bit rate : 30.8 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.619
Stream size : 34.8 GiB (93%)
Language : English

mkv file with AVC video and TrueHD audio - plays, but no sound. LAV audio is not loading. GraphStudio says it's loading, and it's playback window actually produces sound, but I could barely hear it; weird.

the next mkv wouldn't playback either, so I took another look and the filters were now blank. I don't know if jacking around in GraphStudio actually removed them from MC, or what happened, but when I re-selected LAV audio and ffdshow video, then played this file again, MC crashed

when I restarted and tried playing back again, I got nothing playing. I was not happy. Then, I just happened to notice that i had the patio zone selected, which would explain why i wans't hearing anything; arrggg!

one more time. I played it again, and once again, I got nothing, just a blank screen. The window opened, and it showed the time and position bar, but the time never moved and nothing played. I tried to r-click and select filters, but nothing happened for 10 seconds or so, then it showed the dialog box, but this time the filters were there, but not the splitter. there were only 2 choices in the splitter drop-down now, then it crashed again. I'm not super happy right now

I restarted MC, checked to be sure the splitter/filters/renderer was selected properly, they were, then played again. fail. graph info from MC is here

Filter Graph Info:

Filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
CLSID: {A4002F8E-510F-442C-8AD3-F9C7B23FB394}
Host:
Input Pin 'In'
Connected to pin 'XForm Out' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

Filter 'madVR'
CLSID: {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\madvr\madvr.ax
Input Pin 'Input'
Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2

Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\ffdshow\ffdshow.ax
Input Pin 'In'
Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'LAV Splitter'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Output Pin 'Out'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'madVR'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Input Pin 'In Text'
Connected to pin 'Subtitle' of filter 'LAV Splitter'
Major type Unknown GUID Name: {E487EB08-6B26-4BE9-9DD3-993434D313FD} Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}
Input Pin 'In Text 2'

Filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'
CLSID: {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\lav filters\x86\lavaudio.ax
Input Pin 'XForm In'
Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'LAV Splitter'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DTS, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Output Pin 'XForm Out'
Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'JRiver Audio Renderer'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

Filter 'LAV Splitter'
CLSID: {171252A0-8820-4AFE-9DF8-5C92B2D66B04}
Host: c:\program files (x86)\lav filters\x86\lavsplitter.ax
Input Pin 'Input'
Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'File Source (Async.)'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {1AC0BEBD-4D2B-45AD-BCEB-F2C41C5E3788}, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE
Output Pin 'Video'
Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Output Pin 'Audio'
Connected to pin 'XForm In' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DTS, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Output Pin 'Subtitle'
Connected to pin 'In Text' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
Major type Unknown GUID Name: {E487EB08-6B26-4BE9-9DD3-993434D313FD} Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {04EBA53E-9330-436C-9133-553EC87031DC}

Filter 'File Source (Async.)'
CLSID: {E436EBB5-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
Host: c:\windows\syswow64\quartz.dll
Output Pin 'Output'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Splitter'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Stream Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {1AC0BEBD-4D2B-45AD-BCEB-F2C41C5E3788}, Format type TIME_FORMAT_NONE

I am going to restart the computer and try again, everything is failing to play now, and what does play, plays at about 3 frames per second, if that.

I figured I'd post this, then restart, then continue testing.

As one last test I tried Avatar again, and it didn't play anything, and hung my whole system. by the time it responded again, I had an error message from madVR saying "-resetting Direct3D device failed (80070057)

I bet a restart "fixes" this.

JustinChase · « **Reply #45 on:** May 05, 2011, 11:34:46 pm »

I lost the bet, Avatar still doesn't play after the restart

Quote from: Daydream on May 05, 2011, 10:05:44 pm

So, at first sight: it is pretty obvious that you have some rare format types of streams in there, so at this point (for me at least) there is no surprise that you struggle so much with your files. My advice above, to get rid of these in favor of a... better life , still stands, but it's your choice.

There are not many DirectShow filters for AMR (and there are more than one AMR type). I don't know what ffdshow or LAV audio can do with it, cause I don't have a 3gp file around (but if you post a sample I'll gladly dissect it).

Monogram worked on a filter for AMR here. It might help, but you'll have to register the filter by hand.

The avi file is just as interesting as the 3gp file. I wonder what formats were forced into the poor old container. PCM_U8 is supported by ffmpeg, therefore ffdshow should be able to deal with it (as a first guess have Mulaw/Alaw format enabled in ffdshow audio).

yeah, it seems so, doesn't it

but that's what my phone and camera give me. I'm not too worried about the 3gp or the wonky avi files, I'll figure them out someday, probably after I install CCCP, which I'm not doing until I'm finished testing without it.

I tried Mulaw/Alaw, it didn't fix it. no surprise to me, and not a big deal either. ffdshow does offer AMR as a filetype, but mine must be wonky. There has been quite a bit of work done on Gingerbread, so maybe a new ROM will let me change the recording options on my phone to fix this, then I'll just convert what I have and be done with it. we'll see.

the avi are from my canon digital camera, so no changing that. again, not a big deal to me. I'm really just running down the list of file types I have in alphabetical order, not order of importance.

I'm wondering if it has to do with them both being mono files ?

thanks again, I may look at the filter you recommended also, someday

back to testing.

Yaobing · « **Reply #46 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:29:27 am »

Quote from: SamuriHL on May 05, 2011, 07:37:03 pm

You know what I'd like? An option somewhere to set a default set of filters and then an option to be able to quickly apply them to multiple video formats.

Quote from: SamuriHL on May 05, 2011, 09:23:22 pm

Right, my idea is basically in the video section of the config have a place to set default splitter, default filters, default renderers. (We have SOME of that already, right? Just extend that a bit to allow video and audio decoders and stuff like that, as well). Those become the "default" used by automatic. Otherwise I have to mirror it for every video type I want. Being able to customize it per type is great...don't lose that. But allow me to set a nice default so when I change it I don't have to replicate it to 10 different video types.

Tools > Options > File Type

Select multiple file types, then select filters. This way you do not have to repeat the same thing for each file type.

There is no such thing as a default set of filters for all file types. Even with the versatility of FFDShow, that dream still can not be realized.

JustinChase · « **Reply #47 on:** May 06, 2011, 10:09:59 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on May 06, 2011, 09:29:27 am

Tools > Options > File Type

Select multiple file types, then select filters. This way you do not have to repeat the same thing for each file type.

There is no such thing as a default set of filters for all file types. Even with the versatility of FFDShow, that dream still can not be realized.

That is excellent information, and once I get an acceptable "standard" I'm definitely using this "trick"!!

However, I think what SamuriHL meant (and what I meant) is to be able do exactly what I can do now for one type (pick splitter, filters, renderer) in the general options, not for any specific type, and have "automatic" use those choices, but use the current system for any types that I want to use something specific that differs.

with what you've just pointed out, it's not a big deal at all now, as your solution will work fine for me. I only mention it as your rationale makes me think you had a different interpretation than what I (and he?) was thinking.

anyway, I don't think you should worry about it now, there's bigger fish in the sea to worry about right now

thanks again, this was/will be very helpful to me!

SamuriHL · « **Reply #48 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:00:57 pm »

That's right. I was hoping for a way to specify a set of default filters. But that's not bad for now.

JustinChase · « **Reply #49 on:** May 06, 2011, 11:32:03 pm »

Okay, I've been playing around some more, and I'm sure I've got something screwey going on with my system, but I just can't figure it out

Equipment:
ATI Radeon HD 5550 video card => HDMI => Yamaha RX-V867 AV Receiver => HDMI => Mitsubishi 737 series TV

Here's what I have installed so far:

J River Media Center 16.0.81
LAVFilters 0.25
FFDshow 3814
madVR .61
ArcSoft audio decoder HD (not sure which version, I got it here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=63282.msg424968#msg424968)
ATI Catalyst Driver as follows

Driver Packaging Version   8.841-110405a-116954C-ATI
Catalyst Version   11.4
Provider   ATI Technologies Inc.
2D Driver Version   8.01.01.1142
2D Driver File Path   /REGISTRY/MACHINE/SYSTEM/ControlSet001/Control/CLASS/{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}/0000
Direct3D Version   7.14.10.0825
OpenGL Version   6.14.10.10666
Catalyst Control Center Version   2011.0405.2218.38205

Here is what I have selected in MC for mkv files
File Source (Async.)
ffdshow Video Decoder
LAV Audio Decoder
ArcSoft Audio Decoder
madVR

I have LAV Audio setup to bitstream every file type it offers, except DTS-HD (to let ArcSoft take control of those streams)
I have every format checked on the format tab

I have ffdshow Video Decoder set to the defaults mostly, with libavcodec chosen for everything except H.264/AVC, which uses ffmpeg-mt
(some file types are disabled at install, I only enabled mpeg2 to use libmpeg2 of these disabled files)
I have deinterlacing checked
I have subtitles checked
I unchecked all colorspace options except YV12 & NV12, as I understand madVR can only accept those 2 types

I tried to play the following file:
General
Unique ID : 61596536574688782091469866237380300429 (0x2E570FB99CD40A35B4BC54E3E84C8E8D)
Complete name : V:\Music\Rush\Beyond the Lighted Stage\La Villa Strangiato.mkv
Format : Matroska
File size : 940 MiB
Duration : 7mn 5s
Overall bit rate : 18.5 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-11-18 02:27:01
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.6.2 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.6.2 (0.7.7/0.8.1) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 7mn 5s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 17.6 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 35.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.354
Stream size : 892 MiB (95%)
Language : English
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 7mn 5s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 9.73 MiB (1%)
Title : 2/0
Language : English

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 7mn 5s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 9.73 MiB (1%)
Title : 2/0
Language : English

Audio #3
ID : 4
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 7mn 5s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 9.73 MiB (1%)
Title : 2/0
Language : English

and there is no sound

the really weird thing is that it's loading the ArcSoft Audio Decoder and NOT the LAV Audio Decoder. I have no idea why, other than merit maybe?
I don't see any place to tell the ArcSoft what formats to use or not use, and I don't know how to lower it's merit.

Now for the really weird part, if I switch audio streams I get sound!
(don't ask why I have 3 that appear identical, makeMKV did this for me)
However, if I check the filter list, the ArcSoft Audio Decoder is blank in the display. the line is there, just blank. If I click on the blank line, it brings up the ArcSoft config dialog ?
the LAV Audio Decoder still does not show up.
I can now click on any of the 3 streams while playing, and they all play fine, even the first one that doesn't play sound until I change streams. it seems changing streams is what causes it to actually play sound.

*The graphs ended up on page 2 of the thread

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