INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.  (Read 10986 times)

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233

The problem is easy to explain. I use MC in my entertainment room as an HTPC with a Harman Kardon receiver through HDMI. Unfortunately, the audio signals does not synchronize even when a silence is sent, leaving the beginning of any “cold started” track with a significant audio gap (at least 2 seconds) until the receiver kicks in. Using “Play All” will make this occur at the start of the first track only, and the following tracks, including gapless ones, will play fine. I have set DSP to upsample every audio track since “Play All” only works without that gap if the tracks are at the same sample rate (otherwise, there is a gap every time a different sample rate is used). But even with upsampling, every time I use “Play” instead of "Play All", the gap is present. This is also the case using SPDIF.

This matters little to me for video. For audio however, it is an unfortunate state of affairs for any music lover. I do understand that this problem is specific to hardware, but HKs are still fairly popular receivers. Sending a low decibel signal instead of a true silence would synchronize MC with my receiver, and eliminate the gap. I know this is the case with many other MC users, and I hope enough people will join me in asking for this feature. Matt is looking for 10+.
Logged

jhkTO

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 04:04:34 pm »

+1
Logged

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 04:11:35 pm »

This seems like a worthwhile addition for hardware that needs it. The question is what's enough to trigger it? Would a -95dB signal suffice?
Logged

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 04:19:03 pm »

I wouldn't know how to test it. I would love to do it if someone could tell me how ...
Logged

Matt

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 41821
  • Shoes gone again!
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 04:23:48 pm »

I wouldn't know how to test it. I would love to do it if someone could tell me how ...

Switch to Internal Volume.  Set it to 0%.

Play pink noise using Tools > Advanced Tools > Audio Calibration > Pink Noise (at -20 dbFS).

Turn the volume up slowly and note what volume level causes the receiver to "see" a signal.
Logged
Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re:
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 06:01:49 pm »

You guys really did think of everything, did you!

Anyway, I did that test and the receiver kicked in immediately at 1%, which read at -95.5

Hope that helps.
Logged

Bobo_The_Imp

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 06:18:30 pm »

+1 I agree as well
Logged

javidan

  • Junior Woodchuck
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 11:54:21 pm »

+1

I am using an Onkyo AVR which has the exact same problem.
Thanks for raising it up, I didn't make a post on my own earlier because I thought it was only specific to my amp and it would be silly to request for it specifically for only this particular brand.
Logged

Matias

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Digital Audio
Logged
1. Sonore ultraRendu - UpTone ISO Regen - Mola Mola Makua - Apollon NC800 SL PRO - Thiel CS3.7
2. LG 65UM7470PSA - Marantz SR7005 - Apollon NCore MP mch - Monitor Audio Platinum PL100+PLC150 - SVS SB-3000
3. RME ADI-2 DAC FS - Neumann KH 80 DSP
4. TempoTec Sonata E44 - Audeze LCDi3
5. Meizu HiFi DAC - Moondrop Blessing2 Dusk

tls62dk

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 05:55:52 am »

+1. Same problem on my Arcam.
Logged

sunfire7

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 550
Re:
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 10:00:59 am »

Finally, +1!
Logged
Happy licensed MC 15-19 User :)
Mac version early bird
My english is not perfect! My native lang is spanish

Tiago C

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 12:57:38 pm »

+1. It seems several onkyo receivers face the same issue...
Logged

pookst55

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 04:16:42 pm »

+1 Three year old Harman Kardon receiver has same problem
Logged

Matt

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 41821
  • Shoes gone again!
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 04:22:50 pm »

I said +10 in the other thread, but this is close enough.  If the change doesn't happen this week, please bump this thread.

Also, if anyone has something other than Harman Kardon, please do the same test as Claude Lapalme did above and report if 1% volume is enough to get the receiver to "see" a signal.  Please include the type of hardware you have in your result.

Thanks.
Logged
Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 04:30:50 pm »

Happy Day!


Thanks in advance on behalf of all
Logged

MrHaugen

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3774
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2013, 09:40:35 am »

Good that I stumbled upon this thread. This has been quite the annoyance on my new Onkyo receiver. I'll try the mentioned settings later.
Logged
- I may not always believe what I'm saying

Matt

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 41821
  • Shoes gone again!
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2013, 02:39:20 pm »

Next build:
Changed: Startup and between track silence is -96dBFS narrow band pink noise instead of pure silence so that it works better with hardware that ignores pure silence ( http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83964.0 ).

The low volume noise is not placed in the subwoofer channel.
Logged
Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

fitbrit

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 02:44:22 pm »

+1 On Onkyo.

Several issues were alleviated recently after the addition of a Gefen HDMI Detective+ into my HDMI chain, including this one. Therefore, my Onkyo briefly loses the signal, but picks up the Pink noise again, even at 0 db. I think it's because the HTPC is always seeing a 7.1 capable receiver due to the HDMi Detective+. I'd still want this feature to be fixed in case I ever remove this $100 piece of hardware.
Logged

fitbrit

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 02:45:54 pm »

Next build:
Changed: Startup and between track silence is -96dBFS narrow band pink noise instead of pure silence so that it works better with hardware that ignores pure silence ( http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83964.0 ).

The low volume noise is not placed in the subwoofer channel.

Thanks! This is a HUGE addition to the program. Lots of threads on this on AVS forums. It's another reason to launch MC and then stay there on an HTPC. :)
Logged

mojave

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3732
  • Requires "iTunes or better" so I installed JRiver
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 02:51:25 pm »

It's another reason to never leave MC on an HTPC. :)

I always leave MC on my HTPC.  ;D Your post sounds like the opposite, but I know what you are saying.
Logged

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re:
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 02:56:32 pm »

Just for my information: is this a global change to media center, or is it only when you use the "send silence" option.
Logged

fitbrit

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
Re: Add +1. Poll: Have MC send pink noise instead of silence to kill audio gap.
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 10:40:41 pm »

I always leave MC on my HTPC.  ;D Your post sounds like the opposite, but I know what you are saying.

Ha! Thanks. I edited.
Logged

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re:
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 10:59:28 am »

Well, testing it answered my question. Thanks a million for this. It works perfectly. I have mine set at two seconds in order to work, so one can see it was a significant issue.
Logged

Soul_Rvr911

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 334

Just wanted to chime in another huge THANK YOU for this! I have an Onkyo receiver that suffers from this issue, and I'm glad to hear there's finally a workaround!
Logged
Check out my JRiver remote application eos, available for Android and BlackBerry 10!
Android: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89392.0
BB10: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79677.0

sunfire7

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 550
Re:
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 12:42:31 pm »

I tested .49 agains my HK and still the same, even with 5 seconds start up :/

Harman Kardon 1650
Logged
Happy licensed MC 15-19 User :)
Mac version early bird
My english is not perfect! My native lang is spanish

6233638

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5353

Perhaps we need a preference that
  • Enables or disables this feature
  • Allows users to enter the volume required for their hardware
Logged

Claude Lapalme

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re:
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 01:06:30 pm »

@Sunfire: did you do the test outlined earlier in the thread?  It was very helpful for me in determining the decibel level was required for my receiver to see the signal. It is possible that -96 is just too low for your hardware. Obviously, JRiver will attempt to keep this pink signal as low as possible, but if you can show that you need a little more and exactly how much, I'm sure the alteration would be made provided it is small enough, which is quite certain to be. The customization option advocated by the previous poster would also be welcome, but I have a feeling it's much more under involved in terms of programming it may not happen for a while.
Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount

So far, this appears to have solved my only playback problem, which is that playlists with tracks with mixed bitrates (such as Random/Shuffle playback), would cause my USB DAC to produce popping noises (not just at the beginning of the track).  These noises would go away if I pressed "stop" followed by "play", in other words, flushing the buffers.

It appears that 1/2 second of this pink noise cures the problem, while pure silence did not.

Given the number of requests in the thread, it is amazing how useful this may turn out to be... thanks for implementing it !

sunfire7

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 550

Well, tested .49 with my onkyo and it does solve the problem (with the current -96db). I tested the suggested test and my HK reacts at -95.5db (1% of internal volume). So I don't know if those .5db make the difference or my HK is just weird.
Logged
Happy licensed MC 15-19 User :)
Mac version early bird
My english is not perfect! My native lang is spanish

dean70

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 508

Next build:
Changed: Startup and between track silence is -96dBFS narrow band pink noise instead of pure silence so that it works better with hardware that ignores pure silence ( http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83964.0 ).

The low volume noise is not placed in the subwoofer channel.

This could be useful for the subwoofer as well. Most subs have an auto power down when no signal is received & I have noticed it can switch off if no audio is present on the sub channel for about 15 mins. There is a delay when it powers back up on a signal before the sound is heard.
Logged

fitbrit

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878

This could be useful for the subwoofer as well. Most subs have an auto power down when no signal is received & I have noticed it can switch off if no audio is present on the sub channel for about 15 mins. There is a delay when it powers back up on a signal before the sound is heard.


The problem is that a lot of subs require a decent (audible?) signal to come out of auto-sleep.
Logged

Matias

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Digital Audio

Fixed here too. Thank you very much!  :)
Logged
1. Sonore ultraRendu - UpTone ISO Regen - Mola Mola Makua - Apollon NC800 SL PRO - Thiel CS3.7
2. LG 65UM7470PSA - Marantz SR7005 - Apollon NCore MP mch - Monitor Audio Platinum PL100+PLC150 - SVS SB-3000
3. RME ADI-2 DAC FS - Neumann KH 80 DSP
4. TempoTec Sonata E44 - Audeze LCDi3
5. Meizu HiFi DAC - Moondrop Blessing2 Dusk

sunfire7

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 550

Don't know if you improved this in .50 but now is working on all my AVRs, thank you JRiver
Logged
Happy licensed MC 15-19 User :)
Mac version early bird
My english is not perfect! My native lang is spanish
Pages: [1]   Go Up