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Author Topic: TV Recording Rule Improvement  (Read 5000 times)

Yaobing

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TV Recording Rule Improvement
« on: October 12, 2015, 11:31:38 am »

I will start tackling the issue of improving television recording rules.

I am going to start with something like what is in the attached image.  Users will be able to add multiple rules.  On the left field of each rule will be a drop list containing "Name", "Series", "Description", and "Any of the above".  The middle part is as shown in the image.  The right-hand side should be a text edit box where users can type phrases.

The default behavior, when a user selects a program to subscribe to, is
"Name" "Contains" (or "Matches exactly" if the default is to "require exact name match") "[program name in guide]"

Additional conditions can be added.  If nothing is typed in the big box below, then all conditions must be true (i.e. [1] AND [2] AND [3] AND ...).  Advanced users can type a rule on how the multiple conditions are evaluated.  In the image I typed "[1] AND ([2] OR [3])"

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

Yaobing

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 11:37:46 am »

I will eventually also add "Keywords" in the list on the left hand side.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

DocLotus

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 01:44:35 pm »

YIPPI... Improvements :D

One thing that has been bugging me about the current Rules concerns items like...

1: "Once per day, only prime time".  What exactly is "Prime Time"?  I think of it as being from 7 - 10 PM (here in the States) but others may have a different view depending on the country they live in.

2: "Once per day, only middle of night".  What exactly is "Middle of night"?  I have no idea what that means.

I suggest that the EXACT time (From - To) be shown to the right of "Prime time & Middle of night" so everyone knows exactly what times are included when one of those selections are made.

It might also be a good idea rather than just showing the exact times for "Once per day, only middle of night" that the users could actually enter the From & To times in boxes to the right of "Once per day, only middle of night". That way the user can set up the Rules to their impression of what "Once per day, only middle of night" means to them.

Reason I suggest this is because I've had a couple of programs that I had set up as prime time but never recorded as I suspect the program times may have been slightly out of MC idea of what Prime time refers to.

I also suggest another choice be added to the screen... Select Time FROM: ________  TO: ________
This will allow the user to set the exact time for a recording to start & stop. If the TO: time is left blank the recording will start at the FROM: time & continue until done otherwise it will stop at the TO: time.

This additional option will provide the user with a broader choice of time frames other then "Once per day, only middle of night" & could crossover the two for those programs that you want to record & can come anytime through the day or night (such as PBS This Old House).
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CountryBumkin

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 05:50:46 pm »

Very nice Yaobing! This will make a lot of people happy. I can't wait to test this.

Perhaps the next piece will be to add the same power to the "Do not record shows that have been recorded in the past" feature.
It could be set up similar to above, where one could have rules such as "do not record if (1) [Name and Description] match, or do not record if (2) [Series and Season Number and Episode Number] match, or do not record if contains (3) [Name and (Season Number and Episode Number) or Description], .... etc.

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greynolds

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 08:35:06 pm »

This sounds promising and should be a step in the right direction.  A few suggestions / additions:

1) Add Category to the left drop down.  Ideally the possible values would be a list of possibilities that actually exist in guide data, but allowing the user to type in values would work if you guys also provide a way to see the category data from the guide data somewhere so they will have a way to put in the correct category names.  This would be analogous to a similar feature in WMC that allows the user to select a category when setting up a keyword search.  For my usual example of recording Boston Bruins hockey games, one would setup keywords of "nhl hockey Boston at" and then select a category of "sports/hockey".  Doing this helps to eliminate a lot of possible matches to the keywords that aren't actually Boston Bruins hockey games.

2) Add Channel to the left drop down.  The middle options would include options such as "any", "HD preferred", "SD preferred", and "any of".  Any would allow matches to any channel.  HD preferred would try to match HD channels, but would go with SD if no HD channels match.  SD preferred would try to match SD channels, but would go with HD if no SD channels match.  Finally, any of would allow the user to multi select channels from the right box.

3) Definitely add the Keyword option, giving it options to match only title, only episode name, both, and so on.

4) Add an Actor option to the left drop down.  The guide data should have actor information for each program, and this would be a handy way to record shows/movies with your favorite actor(s).

I pretty much agree with the other comments so far.  The "once per day" options have never seemed very useful to me.  There are a number of times when series show back to back episodes at some point during the season and those "once per day" options will prevent the 2nd episode from recording.  I'm not saying to remove the option, but put more focus on only recording new episodes rather than worrying about only 1 match per day.

I'll probably have some other comments, but these immediately came to mind.

Thanks for working to improve this functionality.  I look forward to trying it out.
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RoderickGI

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 09:00:21 pm »

This is great Yaobing. A couple of thoughts below. I may have more thoughts later. Sorry for the wall of text.  ;D

I will eventually also add "Keywords" in the list on the left hand side.

By "Keywords" do you mean the fields available in the XMLTV EPG files, such as CATEGORY, ACTOR, DIRECTOR, GENRE etc., as defined in the XMLTV standard? If so, that would be perfect.

Based on your image, you are still planning to use the program name as the recording rule name. As we are now going to be able to select searches on any of the main fields, I would like to be able to edit the recording rule name, to make it meaningful to the user. For example, our sports fans may want to call a rule "My favourite NBL games" or "NBL games at home" and "NBL games away", or similar. As the name of the rules isn't being used for the search, this should be achievable. I may want to name a rule "CSI", even though the EPG always includes the name "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation". This could even be useful in identifying some part of the criteria used in the rule, such as "Sunday afternoon Scooby Doo".


Series Name: SHORT VERSION
When MC imports EPG data, have MC check for the value "series" in the EPG <category> fields. If the program is categorised as a series, or if MC already knows the Title is a series, put the contents of the <title> field into both the MC [series] and [name] fields whenever the EPG <sub-title> field is empty.

Series Name: LONG VERSION
The other issue that came to mind the other day was that MC currently uses the [Series] field to decide which series a program belongs to, and that value comes from the <title> field in the XMLTV files, when both the <title> and <sub-title> fields are available. If the <sub-title> field is not provided in the EPG, then the [series] field isn't populated, even when the program is, in fact, a series. It is common in my EPG data for repeat showings of a program for the <sub-title> field, and often the <description> field, to be empty. This is the broadcaster obfuscating that the program is a repeat usually. But just as often it is poor EPG data, even for new showings of a program.

This could lead to missing recordings of a series, obviously, where the rules says, for example;
Series {matches exactly} Doctor Who
But the series field is empty, and it is the [Name] field that contains "Doctor Who".

This can be solved in three ways given the new rules being discussed.
1. Set up two rules for each and every series recording, specifically; "Series {matches exactly} Doctor Who" OR "Name {matches exactly} Doctor Who". That is very achievable, and is simple to understand, but hard to automate if someone just presses the button to record a series, and selects subscribes to the series. The subscription would potentially miss some episodes without user knowledge of the way MC uses the EPG <title> and <sub-title> fields, and intervention on their part to add the second rule.

2. The "Any of the above" field option would catch the program, but would also catch all the Doctor Who extra programs, or any program with "Doctor Who" in the description, which is undesirable from my perspective. Where the search term was a common word that often appeared in descriptions, this could result in a lot of unwanted recordings.

3. If the program is determined to be a series (discussed below), any rule that searches the [series] field when the [series] field is empty, should also search the [name] field. I'm not sure this is a good solution though, since it may not appear obvious to a user how a program was selected for recording. They would have to have a knowledge of the way MC uses the <title> and <sub-title> fields, and expect it to pick up the series correctly. Otherwise they might try to get around the problem of an empty series field using more complex rules.

Perhaps a better solution to all the above it to put the contents of the <title> field into both the MC [series] and [name] fields when the <sub-title> field is empty, and the program is determined to be, in fact, a series that should have a series name and episode name.

How do you determine if a program is a series? I can think of three ways.
a. The most common solution, used by zap2it (Gracenote), Rovi, and IceTV, is to create a Series ID and embed it into the program ID each of them use. "TheTVDB Series ID" tag can't be used as it isn't in the EPG data. Besides, I have watched whole series, imported into MC and looked up on TheTVDB, without ever getting the tag filled, because the site hasn't been updated with the series. "Dexter" and "The Death of Yugoslavia" are two examples where this happened. So this isn't a good solution for MC, since you can't be affiliated with any one of the above solutions world wide, and besides, users may be sourcing and importing XMLTV data from anywhere, with or without a Series ID.

b. If MC had a database of series names, and could look up the value in the <title> field to check if it is a series. I know some software keeps a local database of TV programs, in particular series names to do this. EPG Collector does this, although that is to minimise online lookups for metadata. Maybe MC could look up its own database to see if the name matches a program that has already been identified as a series, rather than a once off program. Alternately, look up the name somewhere on-line where the series could be reliably found, before it is shown on air. But online lookups are problematic, at the time of EPG import or recording rule evaluation. After all, that is what the EPG data is supposed to do, provide information about the program before it is shown, without having to do external lookups.

c. Have MC check for the value "series" in the EPG <category> fields. If the program is categorised as a series, always treat it that way, including for the completion of the [series] and [name] fields.

-----------------

I see Greynolds finished typing before me, and got a post in with similar ideas. Great!
I like the SD vs HD option, and used to use that in software I previously used. The multiple channel numbers selection is already there of course, but could be improved using these new rules.
I would also appreciate more flexibility and meaningfulness of time range selection.
I think his expansion of the Keywords discussion is pretty much spot on as well.
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kstuart

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 11:39:47 am »

I think that "Category" is a "dangerous" addition.  In order to record the program, one is entirely dependent on the Listings Service categorizing the event correctly.  (If I had a dollar for every Listings Service error....)

Much better is to use the sophisticated logic system described by Yaobing to search the Titles and Descriptions for the right combinations of words.

greynolds

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2015, 12:26:23 pm »

I think that "Category" is a "dangerous" addition.  In order to record the program, one is entirely dependent on the Listings Service categorizing the event correctly.  (If I had a dollar for every Listings Service error....)

Much better is to use the sophisticated logic system described by Yaobing to search the Titles and Descriptions for the right combinations of words.
It's ultimately up to the user to use or not use the feature.  But if the feature doesn't exist at all, there's no way to use it.  I've been using the category feature in WMC for recording hockey games for many years now and it works extremely well to help narrow the scope of matches to only actual hockey games.  AFAIK, MC is using the same guide data as WMC, so it shouldn't be an issue if the guide data is being used properly.  It may be less useful in markets outside the USA, but that's not a strong argument to exclude the feature.
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imeric

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2015, 02:12:25 pm »

NICE NICE NICE!!! Looking forward to it Yaobbing!!

As I said before, start small, ship something out so we can try it and post back!

IMHO if you leave it as per your snapshot I believe a user will capture pretty much all scenarios required for users and especially for games.  I would start with this first and see how it goes.  I really agree with all the suggestions given above but I still think most of it should be captured with options available in your snapshot.

Improvements in subscription time,reruns, categories etc...Would be nice but definitely priority #2 for me...  We really need more flexibility in the name (AND/OR) descriptions first.

Thx!!!
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muzicman0

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2015, 04:24:48 pm »

Something I have always wanted in subscriptions...

I have every season of Castle on my HTPC but season 1.  It would be awesome if we could have a rule based on data available in the guide data...IE: if [Season] = 1 then record...or whatever.  You could do the same thing if you are missing an episode, etc.

You know...since we are dreaming and all!
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kstuart

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 12:35:20 pm »

Something I have always wanted in subscriptions...

I have every season of Castle on my HTPC but season 1.  It would be awesome if we could have a rule based on data available in the guide data...IE: if [Season] = 1 then record...or whatever.  You could do the same thing if you are missing an episode, etc.

You know...since we are dreaming and all!

BTW, check "TNT" - they seem to be showing old Castle eps any time I happen to surf to that channel. :)

muzicman0

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Re: TV Recording Rule Improvement
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 12:51:50 pm »

BTW, check "TNT" - they seem to be showing old Castle eps any time I happen to surf to that channel. :)
Yeah, I see them, but I don't really want to record all those episodes that I don't need...I'll either buy the DVD, or hopefully they can implement this feature sometime!

Thanks!
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