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[Daverich4]

I originally posted this question on the Media Center 21 for Mac forum and it was suggested that I repost it here as it involves DLNA. I'm using Media Center 21 on a Mac running El Capitan to drive a Logitech Transporter which then outputs to a DSpeaker DAC. I've noticed that my 24/96 files, both .aif and .flac, are being downsampled to 24/48. When I drive the same setup with Logitech Media Server the files play correctly as 24/96 so it's not a problem with the Transporter/DAC. Under Media Network/Add or configure DLA servers/Audio/Mode I've tried all 3 choices. Original doesn't play at all and the other 2 down sample the files. Under ...Audio/Advanced/DSP Studio I've tried it with Output Format checked and unchecked. When I've had that option checked I tried with sample rates set to no change and with 96k set to 96k instead of no change. Still no joy. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to correct this problem?

On another note, is there anyone using JRiver in the Logitech environment that might be able to suggest some basic settings to use? I've been experimenting with JRiver Media Center 21 (I bought the Master License) for about a month and find all kinds of little quirks in using it. Just wondering if someone else has a setup similar to mine that have found reliable settings to use or has any tips. Thanks.

[JimH]

If a DLNA device supports something that is outside the DLNA standard, you may need to set MC's DLNA Server to reflect that.  Otherwise, MC will convert the files.

[Daverich4]

If a DLNA device supports something that is outside the DLNA standard, you may need to set MC's DLNA Server to reflect that.  Otherwise, MC will convert the files.

Thanks for the response. Can you tell me where to look to change those settings?

[AndrewFG]

Two things..

If you were using a PC I would recommend you to use Whitebear. But you aren't so I won't..

I recommend that you set the MC DLNA Server Audio settings to Always Convert to PCM WITH Header (aka WAV).

[Daverich4]

Two things..

If you were using a PC I would recommend you to use Whitebear. But you aren't so I won't..

I recommend that you set the MC DLNA Server Audio settings to Always Convert to PCM WITH Header (aka WAV).

Hi Andrew,

I've only been using JRiver for a little over a month and during that time you've very graciously tried to answer several of my questions. However, you're running JRiver on Windows and I'm using a Mac. I think that there are enough differences between the two platforms that some of the things you're used to doing aren't available to me. I went through every option under the Media Network settings and I'm unable to come up with a way to do what you suggested. There is a choice to use PCM 16 bit or PCM 24 bit but neither of those options will play. Along with this problem I have a number of other bugs/glitches that I've been unable to resolve so I think at this point it's time to just chalk it up to Media Center for Mac is a "work in progress" and hope that a future upgrade fixes some of them. Thanks again for your help.

[AndrewFG]

You're right. I don't know if the Mac version has the feature. But the screenshot below shows what you should set of you can..

[Daverich4]

You're right. I don't know if the Mac version has the feature. But the screenshot below shows what you should set of you can..

I have 4 PCM choices, with and without headers but changing to any of them from the default MP3 High Bandwidth disables the player. I bought the Master License and I run Windows 10 on my Mac using Parallels Desktop. Maybe when I get the chance I'll give that a rattle. Thanks again for hanging in there. I'm surprised there aren't any Mac users chiming in, of the questions I've asked only Windows users like yourself and some others have responded. Must not be a very large user base.

[AndrewFG]

To be fair, I don't think it really JRiver fault. The problem is with the UPNP LMS plugin supplied by Logitech which was never really made into a finished product. My Whitebear replacement to the Logitech would certainly work better. But again you need Windows for that as well..

[blgentry]

Along with this problem I have a number of other bugs/glitches that I've been unable to resolve so I think at this point it's time to just chalk it up to Media Center for Mac is a "work in progress" and hope that a future upgrade fixes some of them.

I don't think you're right about that.  The Mac version and the Windows version are very, very close.  The Mac version is updated regularly with all of the changes that the Windows version gets too.  There are a few Windows features not in the Mac version, but not very many.

This particular problem you have is with network audio (DLNA/UPNP).  There are threads in this forum about various problems like this ALL THE TIME with MC for Windows.  That's why I originally tried to gently suggest that you'd be better off connecting your DAC directly to your Mac via USB or optical digital.  These kinds of problems don't generally happen with a direct connected DAC.

You may still be able to find some way to make MC work with your Logitech network audio server.  I only read these threads; I don't have much expertise in this particular area.  A different server might work more fully with MC if it is more DLNA compliant.  The vast majority of USB and optical DACs will plug in to the Mac and "just work" with little extra configuration.

You mention other issues you are having.  I don't remember reading about them, but maybe I missed or forgot them.  Start new threads, or update existing ones and we'll try to help you with those.  Unless these other issues are all related to sending audio to your Logitech?  In which case they (probably) are all due to the same DLNA incompatibility.

Brian.

[AndrewFG]

For what it's worth: I used to own a Transporter. It is/was a great piece of kit. Well designed. Great sound. The digital VU meters are the coolest thing on any piece of audio gear. Ever. And then Slim Devices sold out to Logitech. And then Logitech pulled the plug on it. Classic example of big company buying an innovator and then screwing it up. As a result of this, the UPNP functionality was never properly developed. (Even with Whitebear). And therefore finally I made the tough decision to sell the Transporter because the product was clearly on a dead end street, going nowhere. One of the biggest audio tragedies on the planet. Shame. Don't blame JRiver for this...

[Daverich4]

That's why I originally tried to gently suggest that you'd be better off connecting your DAC directly to your Mac via USB or optical digital.  These kinds of problems don't generally happen with a direct connected DAC.

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, the only reason to connect directly to my Mac would be to verify that all of my problems were DLNA related. My server is on the second floor in my office. My office stereo is on the other side of the room driven by a Squeezebox. On the first floor is a whole house system as well as a high end headphone amp/dac rig. The house system is driven by a Squeezebox and the headphone rig by a Touch/Dac. In the basement is my stereo driven by a Transporter/DAC. I don't care about the sound of my office setup or the ceiling speakers on the first floor and drive them both right out of the Squeezebox without an external DAC. The reason I've spent so much time trying to get this to work is because JRiver Media Center makes a noticeable improvement in the sound quality on the two systems that are advanced enough to hear it. I can't imagine why that would be so. Someplace on this forum I got the impression that MC uses the Logitech Media Server in some capacity to stream to my devices? At any rate, after using LMS for the last 12 years MC is a clear step up. I hope I can work out the DLNA stuff and continue using it.  Thanks again.

[Daverich4]

For what it's worth: I used to own a Transporter. It is/was a great piece of kit. Well designed. Great sound. The digital VU meters are the coolest thing on any piece of audio gear. Ever. And then Slim Devices sold out to Logitech. And then Logitech pulled the plug on it. Classic example of big company buying an innovator and then screwing it up. As a result of this, the UPNP functionality was never properly developed. (Even with Whitebear). And therefore finally I made the tough decision to sell the Transporter because the product was clearly on a dead end street, going nowhere. One of the biggest audio tragedies on the planet. Shame. Don't blame JRiver for this...

Actually, there is a very active user community and the Logitech Media Server software still receives regular updates. I don't see the system going away anytime soon. I'm not blaming JRiver for the problems I'm having. If MediaCenter didn't sound better than LMS I wouldn't be trying to work this out. But it does and I am. Thanks.

[blgentry]

My opinion and my opinion only:  DLNA or any form of network audio was not designed with audiophile use in mind.  Nor was it designed for "it just works and is reliable".  If you want solid, reliable, highest sound quality, you use individual machines directly connected to your DACs.

I see far too many network audio problems here to consider it solid, easy, or predictable.  Sure, once you get one system figured out, you know what *that* system is going to do.  But it probably won't be the same as another DLNA product, or the next, or the next.  Add in wireless networking problems and the whole thing makes no sense to me.

Again, just my opinion.  ...and I do wish you good luck with your setup. 

Brian.

[Daverich4]

My opinion and my opinion only:  DLNA or any form of network audio was not designed with audiophile use in mind.  Nor was it designed for "it just works and is reliable".  If you want solid, reliable, highest sound quality, you use individual machines directly connected to your DACs.

I see far too many network audio problems here to consider it solid, easy, or predictable.  Sure, once you get one system figured out, you know what *that* system is going to do.  But it probably won't be the same as another DLNA product, or the next, or the next.  Add in wireless networking problems and the whole thing makes no sense to me.

Again, just my opinion.  ...and I do wish you good luck with your setup. 

Brian.

Hi Brian,

I'll grant you that getting JRiver sorted out hasn't been easy or predictable but I'm almost there. The closed Logitech system has been pretty much plug and play for me over the years but the improvement in sound quality offered by JRiver is making it worth it. I'm setting up an unused iMac to connect directly just to give it a try but I'd need to have at least two of them to complete my system. As far as your comment on using wireless, all of my Logitech devices are hard wired. Knowing what I was going to do with it I had ethernet run all through the house before we moved in 6 years ago. The only wireless device is an iPad running JPlay. Thanks again for your help, at this point I'm hoping I'm out of everyone's hair.