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[JAVA Alive]

Hi,


 I'd like to do build a 2.2 config based on convolution filtering.
 I need a PCIe soundcard with at least 2 digital stereo output chanels (2 optical or 2 spdif or 2 aes ebu outs).
 This card must be of course conpatible with JRiver, with bitperfect playback support (Asio, KS).
 I found expensive cards like Lynx AES 16 or RME.

 Cheapest I found yet is RME HDSPe AIO.
 Any other suggestion ?

[blgentry]

I don't think you really want that unless you have some pretty specialized DACs you are working with.  Generally speaking, different DACs have TINY differences in their clocks, so audio will drift between them.  So if you're running tweeters with one DAC and mid/woofers with the other DAC, a timing difference will happen, and will change the longer the DACs run.

The only way (I know of) to avoid this is to use DACs with a common clock.  Some expensive and/or pro DACs have a clock in and clock out, so you can sync them.  The other solution, for synced clocks) is to use a multi-channel DAC all in one chassis, and assign it's channels for your intended use.  Multi-channel DACs use a single clock internally, so they stay synced.

There are a couple of guys here on the forums that are really good at this and they'll certainly correct me if I'm wrong and probably offer some more good advice and product suggestions.

Brian.

[JAVA Alive]

Hi, thanks for answer.

As the optical, spdif and AES signals carry clock, there should not be any issue with synch of 2 DACs as long as a single digital card is used (I support that cards with multiple digital outputs have same clock for all outputs).

For now I have a W4S DAC2 which I'm happy with.
If I go to a 2.2 system, I'll need another one which means additional costs.
Therefore any suggestion on card with good analog balanced outputs is also welcome.
As I am using the current DAC as a preamp (internal volume function), the analog card must have a good quality volume setup and ideally a remote control (much arder to find as these cards are usually for studio)

[mwillems]

Hi, thanks for answer.

As the optical, spdif and AES signals carry clock, there should not be any issue with synch of 2 DACs as long as a single digital card is used (I support that cards with multiple digital outputs have same clock for all outputs).

This is correct, SPDIF outputs do carry the clock and I've had success syncing DACs from SPDIF outputs.

For now I have a W4S DAC2 which I'm happy with.
If I go to a 2.2 system, I'll need another one which means additional costs.
Therefore any suggestion on card with good analog balanced outputs is also welcome.
As I am using the current DAC as a preamp (internal volume function), the analog card must have a good quality volume setup and ideally a remote control (much arder to find as these cards are usually for studio)

For your very specific use case (4 channels, and already have one stereo DAC with an SPDIF input) you might do better looking for a dac with two analog outputs and one stereo SPDIF output instead of a card with two digital outputs.  As you've discovered, cards with multiple digital outputs can be quite expensive, but cards with analog outs and a single digital output are much more common, and some are quite good.  That would limit your options for expansion, but it's not clear what your overall design goals are.

It might help if you could lay out your price range as without that kind of information recommendations are hard to make. 

[JAVA Alive]

Hi mwillems,


 My goal is a 2.2 setup with convolution filtering arround 80hz for bass management (stereo output with low pass 80hz and stero output with high pass at 80hz).
 The idea is to have a 4 chanels system : stereo on chanel 1 and 2, copy chanel 1&2 respectivly to chanel 3&4 and filter. (see config file bellow)
 I would like the volume setup to be done by DACs internally or by soundcard pre (if you know externeal soundcard with good pre), not by JRiver volume.
 Price range is variable depending on the solution, ideally the cost of another DAC W4S Dac2 + a 4 chanels out digital soundcard. (so 1 to 2k)

 The problem with 1 digital out and 1 analog out soundcard is that volume will not be managed internall by the DAC.
 Another issue could be that both analog and digital outs can't be used at same time by JRiver.
 


Config file example :

44100 2 4 33
0 0
0 0 0 0
C:\JRIverSetup\high.wav
0
0.0
0.0
C:\JRIverSetup\high.wav
0
1.0
1.0
C:\JRIverSetup\low.wav
0
0.0
2.0
C:\JRIverSetup\low.wav
0
1.0
3.0

[mwillems]

My goal is a 2.2 setup with convolution filtering arround 80hz for bass management (stereo output with low pass 80hz and stero output with high pass at 80hz).
 The idea is to have a 4 chanels system : stereo on chanel 1 and 2, copy chanel 1&2 respectivly to chanel 3&4 and filter. (see config file bellow)
 I would like the volume setup to be done by DACs internally or by soundcard pre (if you know externeal soundcard with good pre), not by JRiver volume.

You're going to have a very hard time matching volume and changing it on the fly without a single volume control.  If your pricerange is 1 to 2K, the Lynx aes-16e is a solid device and cheaper than the RME device you mentioned above (it's available for $700): http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AES16e?adpos=1o1&creative=55225946401&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CO76kq_En8kCFZOBaQodEkwKCA

The problem with 1 digital out and 1 analog out soundcard is that volume will not be managed internall by the DAC.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean? Both outputs would be controlled by the new DAC (the one with the analog and digital outputs)?  Also, there's no guarantee that any given DAC's internal volume will necessarily be better than JRiver's volume; for certain DACs that could be true, but that's by no means guaranteed (some DACs have decidedly worse quality internal volume controls than JRiver, or no internal volume control at all).

Another issue could be that both analog and digital outs can't be used at same time by JRiver.

That's a potential issue, but one which most ASIO capable soundcards don't have.  I've done exactly this on a few occaisons (i.e. used digital and analog outputs from the same card at the same time), and it worked fine.  There are no guarantees, so you'd need to test the device, but in my experience it's more common than not on ASIO devices to expose all outputs.
 
Regardless, it sounds like the Lynx is your solution; if you want something quality in the 1 to 3 hundred dollar range, you'll only find combo analog/digital solutions AFAIK

[JAVA Alive]

RME AIO is a bit cheaper then Lynx AES, but still in the same price range.
And thank for info that I won't find anything bellow 300. That's why I don't find ... ;-)

You're going to have a very hard time matching volume and changing it on the fly without a single volume control.

Like now, I will use the remote control of the W4S DAC2 but it will be for 2 DACs hoping that they will change volume at same speed.
Otherewise my solution will be hard to live with, for sure.
That is a risk I assume.

Both outputs would be controlled by the new DAC (the one with the analog and digital outputs)?  Also, there's no guarantee that any given DAC's internal volume will necessarily be better than JRiver's volume; for certain DACs that could be true, but that's by no means guaranteed (some DACs have decidedly worse quality internal volume controls than JRiver, or no internal volume control at all).

This will make digital output to be controled by volume with high impact on bits resolution.
Most of DACs hardly reach 20bits real resolution and rooms sometimes hardly reach 10 bits but it's another topic ;-)
Still, if volume is controled by JRiver, it should send sount to DAC in 32 or at least 24 bits.
As I can only use coax, optical or AES digital connections, it will be a 16 bits signal ... Definitively not good for a JRiver volume control.
The W4S internal volume is after 32 bits conversion, much more acceptable, and actually better than my previous high end analog preamp.


But maybe I'm complicating everything and a good 4 out balanced analog soundcard would make it at a lower price, same quality and higher ease of use. Any suggestion on this ?