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[chirpp]

Hello!  I am trying to make the move from SageTV to JRiver.  I currently use SageTV to record my shows, and then I watch them with Plex as that is the player I can use on Roku and Samsung TV's.

When I record in Sage it saves the files name in a format that Plex must know and thus knows the series information like name, Season, episode and then can download episode info.

In my 2 tests for JRiver recordings, the recording works and within Plex it shows as name "tvjr", with 2 episode in Season 2015.

Do I need to do some tag converting or something so Plex can correctly identify my files?

Pete

[RoderickGI]

I think you might need to provide a little more information. I assume that "tvjr" stands for "TV JRiver". JRiver MC can record TV in two formats. Either a standard Transport Stream (TS) file, or in the JRiver proprietry JTV format. The JTV format isn't one file but is a set of files, with the playable file having an extension of jtv. If you are using this format, have a look in the directory where the program is recorded. You will see that the program is made up of lots of small Audio (.jta.cnk) and Video (.jts.cnk), plus a bunch of index files that hold the key to playing the audio and video files, .jta, .jts, .jti, .jtf, and .jtr.

So which format are you recording in, TS or JTV? You can check and change the format in Tools/Options/Television/Recording/Format.

The actual naming of the files can vary a lot based on what MC knows about the program when it is being recorded, which basically means the information it has in the EPG data (Guide).

So, if MC only knows the Series name, it may name the file based on the Series name and the date, like this;
Doctor Who 2013-11-14.jtv

If there are two episodes of the same Series on the same day, it will add a suffix, like this;
Doctor Who 2013-11-14 (1).jtv

If MC knows the Series and Episode names, it will name the files like this;
Doctor Who - Heaven Sent 2015-11-30.jtv

Then if it knows the Series and Episode names, and the Season and Episode numbers, it will drop the date and name the file like this;
Doctor Who - S09E12 - Hell Bent.jtv

I suspect that Sage had some pretty good EPG data, and named the file similar to the last example above. In which case Plex could pull down more information about the program. Either that or Sage added more tags to the file after it was recorded.

MC does the same thing, if it is set up to do it, by running the "Get Movie & TV Info..." process when a program is imported. The Tags are typically stored in an XML sidecar file, as they can't be saved to the file itself, depending on format. So that leaves the question: Can Plex read the JRiver Sidecar files? Is there a setting for it in Plex?

So, what EPG data source are you using?
Do you get Season and Episode numbers in MC when you record?
Do you get Season and Episode numbers in Sage when you record?
Does Sage create sidecar files that Plex can read, or does it place tags into the recording file?
Is the "tvjr" part of the file name, or something else within Plex?

That should do for a start.

[chirpp]

Thanks for the message!  I am using .ts as the recording format.  I did not think JTV worked with non JRiver systems, so did not think Plex would see it. 

The file that is getting saved by JRiver is getting named Arthur - Francine's Cleats of Strength; Little Miss Meanie 2015-12-15.ts and a sidecar XML file is also created.  Within that XML, it appears to have information like Series and the description for that recording.  I will check to see if Plex can read that XML file.
On the SageTV end that works to record and Plex to play it, the file name is  “AustinCityLimits-S36E04-1406819-0”.
So, what EPG data source are you using?  M2XML
Do you get Season and Episode numbers in MC when you record?   Yes, I can see within JRiver that it is in fact seeing the series name, name of the episode and description, as this is all in the tag area. 

Do you get Season and Episode numbers in Sage when you record? Yes
Does Sage create sidecar files that Plex can read, or does it place tags into the recording file?  I do not think Sage is creating sidecars.  I have XML files in the folder where I am saving the sage recordings, but JRiver also scans that folder and creates XML files there.

Is the "tvjr" part of the file name, or something else within Plex? Within the GUI of Plex I can choose my TV shows, and it is sorting them by series name.  The  recordings I made within JRiver are all getting set to the “series” name Tvjr.

I tried to run the “Get Movie & TV Info” on the file that JRiver recorded. The message came up “Some of the selected files are not eligible for ‘Get Movie & TV Info’ because: Television shows must have a numeric Season and Episode value.  Please select only eligible file and try again.”  I run Get Movie and TV info against the Sage recorded files and it works!

I hope I am saying that all correctly. It seems odd that JRiver recorded a program and it cannot run its own utility against that  recorded file, yet it can run against the sage TV file.

I will record in JRiver and Sage at the same time and see how it names the files for that same show. It also sounds like maybe I need to read up on Plex to see how it is looking for information.
Anything else I should look at?

Pete

[Yaobing]

On the SageTV end that works to record and Plex to play it, the file name is  “AustinCityLimits-S36E04-1406819-0”.

S36E04 - season and episode numbers.  If the EPG contains this data, we would put it in the filename in simular fashion.

1406819-0 - don't know what this is and whether it has an impact.


You can tell MC to name the file in a way you want, if that is the issue.  On the last page of TV Recording wizard, there is an edit box that says Apply these tags (optional).

I tried to run the “Get Movie & TV Info” on the file that JRiver recorded. The message came up “Some of the selected files are not eligible for ‘Get Movie & TV Info’ because: Television shows must have a numeric Season and Episode value.  Please select only eligible file and try again.”  I run Get Movie and TV info against the Sage recorded files and it works!

The next build will allow you do the search without an episode number.

[RoderickGI]

I am using .ts as the recording format.  I did not think JTV worked with non JRiver systems, so did not think Plex would see it. 

Good. I think you are right about Plex playing jtv.

... file ... named "Arthur - Francine's Cleats of Strength; Little Miss Meanie 2015-12-15.ts"

Yep, that is one of the name forms I mentioned above; "SeriesName - EpisodeName DateRecorded"

So it appears that MC didn't know the Season and Episode numbers of the program, which means it wasn't in the EPG data. As Yaobing mentions, from the next version MC will be able to look up the Season and Episode numbers based on Series and Episode name, so in that case the name format may changed to; "SeriesName - SxxEyy - EpisodeName", or in this case:
"Arthur - S19E08 - Francine's Cleats of Strength; Little Miss Meanie.ts", in which case Plex should be able to understand what Season and Episode this show is, and download additional information...
... except in this particular case, that show needs special handling that MC may not be able to do. The Arthur Wikia says that is part one and part two of Season 19, Episode 8, but TheTVDB, where MC gets its information from, and so does Plex I believe, records these two parts as two separate episodes, S19E15 and S19E16. So that may be a bad example to work with, and an exception not handled. I just tested using the new functionality, and it doesn't find the episode correctly. It does find the first part as S19E15 though.

Even if Plex can read the XML sidecar file for that episode (those episodes), it won't contain the correct data.

On the SageTV end that works to record and Plex to play it, the file name is  “AustinCityLimits-S36E04-1406819-0”.

That would work because the file name has everything; Series name, Season and Episode numbers. That is enough to identify the show to just about any software application. I suspect that the number on the end is one of the Program IDs used by some EPG providers, such as Microsoft and Zap2it. No use for MC anyway.

However, if all your recordings had just that information, Series name, Season and Episode numbers, Plex should be able to work with MC files, no problem.

So, what EPG data source are you using?  M2XML
Do you get Season and Episode numbers in MC when you record?   Yes, I can see within JRiver that it is in fact seeing the series name, name of the episode and description, as this is all in the tag area.

But do you get the Season and Episode numbers in MC? While the new lookup functionality should be good, there is nothing better than having the actual Season and Episode numbers if possible.

Have a search around the Television forum. I don't use mc2xml, and I forget if it is supplying Season and Episode numbers. The mc2xml data comes from Rovi via Microsoft. I don't think Season and Episode numbers are in its basic form. Look for CountryBumkin's posts on the matter. I guess it doesn't matter once the new release comes out and can look up using just the Series and Episode names, at least for most shows.

Do you get Season and Episode numbers in Sage when you record? Yes
Does Sage create sidecar files that Plex can read, or does it place tags into the recording file?  I do not think Sage is creating sidecars.  I have XML files in the folder where I am saving the sage recordings, but JRiver also scans that folder and creates XML files there.

I don't recall what EPG source Sage uses, but if the Season and Episode numbers are always supplied, there may be some data massaging going on, to make sure the numbers are available. You just need to make sure MC can match that.

Is the "tvjr" part of the file name, or something else within Plex? Within the GUI of Plex I can choose my TV shows, and it is sorting them by series name.  The  recordings I made within JRiver are all getting set to the “series” name Tvjr.

This is of concern. If Plex isn't seeing the Series name correctly, this will never work. But if the file name is structured correctly as above, it should be seeing that information, I would expect. You will need to ask that question on the Plex forums once you have the file naming sorted out. Or perhaps find out first what naming Plex expects, and if it can read the structured name MC will provide.

I tried to run the “Get Movie & TV Info” on the file that JRiver recorded. The message came up “Some of the selected files are not eligible for ‘Get Movie & TV Info’ because: Television shows must have a numeric Season and Episode value.  Please select only eligible file and try again.”  I run Get Movie and TV info against the Sage recorded files and it works!

You will see a change to this in the next MC build as Yaobing explained. Up to now all versions of MC have needed the Season and Episode numbers in order to look up extra data from TheTVDB. It worked on the Sage file because Sage put the Season and Episode numbers into the file name, which MC read when it imported the file, and so MC knew the numbers already, and could look up TheTVDB.

Not odd at all. The software can only use the data it has. 

I will record in JRiver and Sage at the same time and see how it names the files for that same show. It also sounds like maybe I need to read up on Plex to see how it is looking for information.
Anything else I should look at?

Just be careful running Sage and MC together on the same PC at the same time. I'm not sure how well Sage works in releasing TV Tuners, but WMC for example doesn't play well when it needs to share tuners. If MC can't use a tuner because Sage is using it, the scheduled recordings will fail. If both programs are on the one PC it would be best if you only ran one at a time, unless you can dedicate one tuner to Sage, and another to MC. Some people have done that recently to get around problems running WMC and MC on the one PC.

Search this forum for posts about Sage. There are a few users still negotiating the move from Sage to MC, and their comments should help you.

I think that is enough to look at for the moment! You are a long time user of MC so I assume you know your way around it. But there is a bit of a learning curve with the TV functionality, so read up on the forum and Wiki.

Enjoy!

[chirpp]

I appreciate the feedback.
I checked the Plex site as it was odd that I could record 2 shows in JRiver (Arthur and nature) and neither would appear in Plex. Nature, when it saved the file name, actually included the format of "Nature - S2E1406 -Honey Badgers Master of mayhem.ts. "

What I read on Plex is the folder and file format needs to be a certain way.


Specifically and in the interest of time:
A TV Show Library Folder <--- Plex aimed here
.......The Plex Show
...........Season 01
................The Plex Show S01E01 My Dang File Won't Show Up.mp4
................The Plex Show S01E02 Oh, There It Is.mp4
................The Plex Show S01E03 How Correct Naming Changed My Life or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb.mp4
........Cooking With Plex
...........Season 01
...............Cooking With Plex S01E01 Plex Don't Do Cornbread.mp4
...............Cooking With Plex S01E02 Arugula - Not Just A Toupee Any More.mp4
...............Cooking With Plex S01E03 Sodium And Coffee - Food Group One.mp4


I don't buy this as I have been recording with Sage in 1 single folder for several years and at least for the last 1 year have been using Plex to play it back. No issues with names, series, episodes, etc.

Should I try a different EPG source within JRiver? Honestly I just thought if I could get rid of Sage and use JRiver to record, it saves 1 more program from running, that's my only motivation. It sound ed like Version 21 was already for prime time so thus my attempt.

As far as recording on Sage and JRiver.  I have 2 Silicon Dust devices with 2 tuners, I separated them so 1 device is only seen by Sage and 1 is JRiver. (for now. ).

[RoderickGI]

Should I try a different EPG source within JRiver? Honestly I just thought if I could get rid of Sage and use JRiver to record, it saves 1 more program from running, that's my only motivation. It sound ed like Version 21 was already for prime time so thus my attempt.

I would stick with mc2xml for now, and see what happens when the new version of MC that can look up TheTVDB using Series and Episode names is released publically. That may be all that you need to get the filename structured as above (not the directories), so that Plex understands it.

There have been lots of discussion around getting Season and Episode numbers into MC so that it would look up TheTVDB, if you wish to look around. But maybe you won't have to worry about that.

MC21 is a huge improvement over earlier versions in the TV area, and continues to get better. I have stuck with it as it continues to improve, while other products age and die. Plus I also like the all in one nature of MC.

[chirpp]

I am thankful for your response and help and advice! I think I found the reason why my test recordings were getting into a series name called tvjr within Plex. Apparently if you follow the naming rules for plex, they would like the series name to be the first sub folder. I have always placed all of my tv recordings in a mapped drive T: so all are in the root of that folder, no subfolders.  When I wanted to test JRiver TV again, I created a subfolder in T:.  Yes, you guessed it, that folder was called tvjr!
So I changed my recording rules within JRiver so they are recording to this T: drive. The recordings show correctly i the series information within Plex now and the episode kind of does.  What I mean is it shows the episode number and not the name like the those recorded with Sage do.  TO me the file names appear similar but there are differences as well.

In a nut shell it appears the initial tvjr name was due to my setup.  I think I will follow your advice and continue with mc2xml and JRiver and see how it goes on more recordings and if any others in the family notice any difference! It would help to eliminate another program running that does not need to be as I do keep JRiver  and Sage running 24x7.

Thanks again!