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[GreggP]

I upgraded to MC21 today specifically for the new TV features and to test if it might replace Windows Media Center. Setup is a PITA, at least, compared to WMC. It took me awhile to get MC21 to recognize my HDHomeRun Prime tuners. Now I'd like to see if MC21 can organize my TV channels as easily as WMC.

I have a total of 5 tuners - 3 with the HDHomeRun Prime and these are all CableCARD tuners and my cable provider is Charter Communications. Luckily, all of the channels are 'copy freely'. The other 2 tuners are from my HDHomeRun Dual ATSC tuner and are connected to an antenna in my attic. These are providing local OTA broadcasting and are listed as 'Digital Antenna' tuners.

Originally when I configured TV for WMC and my HDHomeRuns, I ran the HDHomeRun Install Wizard. The channel scan for CableCARD finds 276 programs. The channel numbers range is from 2 to 997. The channel scan for Digital Antenna finds 23 channels. The guide numbers range is from 3.1 to 57.3.

Between the CableCARD and Digital Antenna tuners, I end up with a lot of channels we don't need/watch and some redundancy.

The Digital Antenna channels include the local affiliates of the major networks like ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX. These are all in HD. They also provide a bunch of subchannels. The NBC affiliate here is WMTV and they have it listed as WMTV-HD on guide channel 15.1, but it is listed as CH19-3 for the tuner.

For cable TV Charter provides both SD and HD versions of many channels. The SD cable channel for NBC uses the tuning and guide number 5 and it is called WMTV-NB (I think that is short for WMTV-NBC and the C is just getting cut off). The HD cable channel for NBC is on 615 for both tune and guide number and is listed as WMTV DT.

This means we can have 3 different versions of NBC - the HD version from both cable (WMTV DT) and OTA (WMTV HD) and the SD (WMTV-NB) version from cable.

WMTV/NBC was on channel 15 way back when all our TV was OTA analog. In the 70s when cable arrived, WMTV/NBC was on cable channel 5. Since we've been subscribing to cable for such a long time, we've gotten used to it being on channel 5. However, now that we get the HD version, we never watch the SD version of WMTV/NBC. Thankfully, Windows Media Center is pretty flexible with how you assign or map channel numbers. I can map or swap channels 5 and 615 so when my family wants to watch channel 5, the HD version of WMTV/NBC plays. Since I swapped 5 and 615, 615 is now the SD version and I have that channel turned off in the WMC TV Guide, so it doesn't appear on the guide. I can also group channels together so a single channel can have multiple sources. In this case I grouped the cable HD channel of WMTV/NBC - WMTV DT with the Digital Antenna channel of WMTV/NBC - WMTV HD. So with the 5 tuners (3 CableCARD and 2 Digital Antenna) I can map five different sources to channel 5. With Windows Media Center they all share the same guide data so program descriptions are always in sync. Pick channel 5 from the guide or with the MCE remote and you watch the HD version of WMTV/NBC. 5 people using different HTPCs can watch these 'network' HD channels simultaneously.

This makes the guide fairly easy to use. All of the familiar channels/stations are assigned to the familiar cable channel numbers. Every possible HD version of the channel is played and the SD versions are ignored/hidden. For those channels that are only available on cable, like ESPN, the SD channel 24 was swapped with the HD channel 660. Again, when picking channel 24 with the remote ESPNHD plays. Since these are only available on cable the only sources for ESPNHD are the three CableCARD tuners. So only 3 people using different HTPCs can watch cable only channels simultaneously.

I have a few question about doing this in MC21. I hope it is possible.
Is there a way to remap channels?
Can you combine channels that use the same program information to a single channel?

I haven't been able to find anything about doing this in any of the television threads. If this is explained somewhere, I'd really appreciate a link to the instructions. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[GreggP]

To apply this situation to MC21...

The ATSC scan returns -

15.1 WMTV-HD (the HD version of WMTV/NBC from my antenna)

The OpenCable/CableCARD scan returns -

5 WMTV (the SD version of WMTV/NBC on cable)
615 WMTVHD (the HD version of WMTV/NBC on cable)

Can I remap 615 to use the familiar channel number 5?
Can I group/join 15.1 to the remapped channel 5, so that it uses multiple sources for watching the same channel from my five tuners?

Or am I stuck with the numbers returned from the scan and my only option for multiple sources is to keep both 15.1 and 615 in my list of channels and to hide channel 5 if I don't want to watch the SD channel?

[imugli]

This may be what you're looking for...

In Standard View, try Television (from the tree), TV Options, Manage Channels, Auto Group.

You can set the priority of tuner type. If that doesn't get it right, you can CTRL + Select the chanels you want to group and Right Click > Group Channels.

To change the channel number, you can change the channel number in the Manage Channels dialog on the right hand side, 2nd field down.

[Yaobing]

Also, on Manage Channels, hide any channel that you do not want to use, or can not use (you can select multiple channels, and use right-click menu, Hide, or you can just click the checkboxes in "Hidden" columm individually).  You can also delete them, but hiding is preferred.  The problem with deleting channels is that next time you need to rescan channels for any reason, the unwanted channels will come back too.

For HD and SD versions of the same program on cable, my advice is to hide one (for example SD version).  Grouping these together does not make sense.  Grouping is intended to group channels of different types (such as ATSC and CableCARD).

Auto Grouping works best if the channels are named the same way.  Some over-the-air channels are named differently from cable channels (for example in Chicago, "5-1 NBC5" vs. "5 WMAQ").  Auto grouping will not find them.  In such case you can manually select the channels and right-click and choose Group channels.

[Yaobing]

In your example, you should:

1. Group "15.1 WMTV-HD" and "615 WMTVHD".
2. Order them the way you want (if you prefer using the cable channel, put 615 above 15.1 and vice versa).
3. Rename the channel on top (15.1 WMTV-HD for example) to "5 WMTV-HD".
4. Assign channel number 5 to it.
5. Hide "5 WMTV".

[GreggP]

In your example, you should:

1. Group "15.1 WMTV-HD" and "615 WMTVHD".
2. Order them the way you want (if you prefer using the cable channel, put 615 above 15.1 and vice versa).
3. Rename the channel on top (15.1 WMTV-HD for example) to "5 WMTV-HD".
4. Assign channel number 5 to it.
5. Hide "5 WMTV".

OK, I'll give that a try. Before posting my long question, I did play around with editing the channels. When I renamed 615 WMTVHD to 5 WMTVHD and assigned it channel 5, the original '5 WMTV' just dissappeared. When I went to the Theater View guide, both 5 WMTVHD and 5 WMTV were listed and when I tried playing 5 WMTVHD, it played the SD version.

I will try it again, but this time I will make sure to hide '5 WMTV' first.

[GreggP]

When I follow your instructions I ended up with a strange grouping and lost the info for the ATSC channel.

It seems to work better if I:

1. Hide '5 WMTV'
2. Rename '615 WMTVHD' to '5 WMTVHD'
3. Group '5 WMTVHD' and '15.1 WMTV-HD'
4. put '5 WMTVHD' on top

I don't change the channel assignment, but it still gets listed in the correct order.

[Yaobing]

"Channel number" field is used when you use remote control or keyboard to change channel by their numbers.

So if a channel gets assigned a channel number 5, you can press 5 to change to that channel.  That channel number field is different from the underlying channel number that is sent to the tuner.  For example, Channel 615 on cable is still channel 615 (you can see it under "Details", just scroll down the edit box to see "Channel: 615".  The Channel Number field right below the Name field is assignable.  So you can safely assign "5" to channel 615.

That said, since you have hidden the real channel 5, there is no other channel having the channel number 5, MC will still find Channel 615 if you press only "5" on the remote.  That is because you renamed "615 WMTVHD" to "5 WMTVHD".  MC tried to match "Channel Number" first.  If no match is found, it tries the number in front of the channel name.

[GreggP]

"Channel number" field is used when you use remote control or keyboard to change channel by their numbers.

So if a channel gets assigned a channel number 5, you can press 5 to change to that channel.  That channel number field is different from the underlying channel number that is sent to the tuner.  For example, Channel 615 on cable is still channel 615 (you can see it under "Details", just scroll down the edit box to see "Channel: 615".  The Channel Number field right below the Name field is assignable.  So you can safely assign "5" to channel 615.

That said, since you have hidden the real channel 5, there is no other channel having the channel number 5, MC will still find Channel 615 if you press only "5" on the remote.  That is because you renamed "615 WMTVHD" to "5 WMTVHD".  MC tried to match "Channel Number" first.  If no match is found, it tries the number in front of the channel name.

Ah, that makes sense. I was looking at the wrong field - Channel, instead of Channel Number.

Thanks Again.

But... one more thing. Thee's seems to be a little confusion regarding these channel edits regarding server and client.

If I make these changes to the channels on the server, will they appear exactly the same when I load the server's library on the client? I was told by another person that I need to make the same channel edits on the client, but it looks like my server changes do persist on the client.

However, even though the channel list on the client shows the correct groupings and hidden channels, the Theater View Guide listing still shows all the hidden channels. How do I get the Theater View Guide to reflect my server channel settings?

[Yaobing]

No, you do not need to edit channels on clients.

Changes on the server gets synched to the clients each time the clients connect.  I am not sure how frequently the client also updates to do synching without restart, but at least you can try restarting if in doubt.

Changes made on a client while connected to the server also get synched to the server if the feature is enabled.

You need to edit on a client machine if you ever need to run it as a stand-alone, not as a client.  In that case do your editing when it is not connected.

[GreggP]

Here's something I've observed that you might want to look into. Maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but...

All of my channel edits are done on the server, which is a headless PC that I work on using Windows Remote Desktop.

Within 'Manage Channels' I selected all of the channels on the list, right clicked and picked 'Hide'.

Then, channel by channel, I worked through the list to match my Windows Media Center channel settings. Basically unhiding the ones I want, grouping and editing the channel number. This is working fine. Periodically, I will exit 'Manage Channels' and see only the ones I want on the list.

Then I go to another PC, run MC21, load the server's library (since it was the previous library it actually loads up that way), so it is the client to the server. Then I look at the channel list in the Television section and it matches what I've done in the server. All is good.

When I select a channel and pick 'Watch' it works great. All of the channels play the correct programs.

Then, on the client, I will switch my view to Theater View and navigate to the Video / Guide. All of the hidden channels are still listed. The ones that I edited are there, but so are the hidden SD versions.

So I have both

5 WMTV and
5 WMTVHD

When I try to watch '5 WMTV' it actually plays the first channel on my list (2 WBUWHD). When I play 5 WMTVHD it plays the correct program.

I also have a grouping of an ATSC channel 3-1, which is our local CBS affiliate, with the cable channel 603. The ATSC channel 3-1 is listed as WISC-HD and the cable channel 603 is WISCHD. After unhiding these, I edited the channel number for 603 to 9, which is the familiar channel for the SD version (which is still hidden). In Theater View I see:

3-1 WISCHD and
9  WISCHD

It does not show the SD channel 9 WISC, which is good because it should be hidden. When I play 3-1, it also plays the first channel on my list (2 WBUWHD). When I play 9 WISCHD it plays the correct program.

How does the Theater View Guide get it's info? In my case it doesn't seem to be working correctly.

Thanks again for your help!

[Yaobing]

On the client, try disconnect from the server, and then reconnect to it.  Or do a manual synchronization with the server.

Also, the behavior you describe is as if channel "5 WMTV" is not hidden, but just grouped under "5 WMTVHD".  If this is the case, I just posted an answer in another thread.  Take a look at that and see if that helps.

[GreggP]

On the client, try disconnect from the server, and then reconnect to it.  Or do a manual synchronization with the server.

Also, the behavior you describe is as if channel "5 WMTV" is not hidden, but just grouped under "5 WMTVHD".  If this is the case, I just posted an answer in another thread.  Take a look at that and see if that helps.

Like I mentioned in the thread you linked to, I updated from build 27 to 30 and that seems to solve my problems with Theater View (also after resetting to defaults).

Thanks again!!

[RoderickGI]

As a precaution whenever I make significant changes to my channel line up, grouping, or other attributes, I always clear the Guide data, and then reload it.

That shouldn't be required, but it makes it easier for me to check things are all okay, as clearing the data removes all Guide data before today, so there is nothing in there related to the old setup. For me, reloading the Guide data is easy and quick, as I always have the most recent XMLTV file available to load. If you are using mc2xml, or one of the other sources, you may have to re-download the data which will take a little longer.

Mind you, MC won't have information about programs on earlier days that may have been recorded, which may effect the "Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past" (though I'm not sure about that), but I find that a reasonable compromise to confusing old Guide data.