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Author Topic: (SOLVED) - Losing first part of recording after a crash  (Read 4497 times)

imeric

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(SOLVED) - Losing first part of recording after a crash
« on: January 12, 2016, 09:42:35 pm »

MC21 crashed tonight while watching TV and playing with the Client-server stuff with my laptop.  Then a message popped up asking to stop time-shifting on the server.  It hanged when I hit Stop time shifting.

I then realised I had left the Sage Service running so even though I don't think MC21 should have crashed I can understand there was conflict between the 2 softwares.

I also had a crash yesterday just surfing channel (Sage service was OFF) and I also lost the first part of the recording after the restarting MC21.

So my whole point here is when an MC crash occurs, power outage, Windows hangs etc...When we (actively) restart JRiver the first part of the recording before the issue should be available! This alone is critical to me.  Does it have anything to do with the time shifting config? (I have it set at 4 hours)  

Sage would just restart on its own (thx to the service) without user intervention.

Is there anyway to get MC to restart on its own?  If this happens when I'm not around I will lose all my scheduled recordings.

 
So 2 things here:
1. Availability of the recording before the crash
2. MC21 to restart on its own (run as a service?)

Thx

 
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Yaobing

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 09:51:25 pm »

The part of the program already recorded before the crash is available.  It never has been an issue.
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imeric

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 10:24:29 pm »

Is available how?
Looks like it's in a time shifting folder but how do I access it witrhout having to manually go in Windows explorer to watch it?
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imeric

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2016, 10:32:58 pm »

What about my question #2, anyway to have JRiver restart on its own?

thx
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RoderickGI

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2016, 12:54:49 am »

Hey Imeric, chill a little bit could you?

You are getting very close to being happy with MC for recording TV, and your observations and suggestions have both been helpful, and are getting a lot of attention. That is all good, but every little new thing you discover that doesn't work exactly the way you wish is "critical". Sorry to be negative, but it is getting a little old.

On question 1: First, I am using the JTV recording format, so we may have different experiences. Second, I very rarely even see a "lockup" which is usually just a long time waiting for MC to finish what it is doing anyway, and almost never see a crash. Usually only when I have been screwing around with MC and/or the HTPC.

Anyway, when I have seen a lockup/crash, MC has always (from memory, because I'm not going to test a crash) already created a record in the library, so I can play it like any other recording. Usually when I restart the MC User Interface, there are now two records for the one recording, the second with a "(1)" suffix, as MC will restart recording when the MC Server restarts, based on the Recording Rules and a still running program.

If you weren't recording a program, but were just Time Shifting and watching it, then yes, you will need to use Windows Explorer to go looking for the Time Shifting files, if you want to finish watching the part you hadn't seen. If that happens to me, I restart MC, do a One Time recording of the rest of the program I was watching, so I know that part will be saved, then I find the Time Shifting files and watch that, then watch the ongoing recording.

If you are using the TS file recording format, you could end up with a corrupt TS file for the first part of the recording, which may or may not be recoverable. Crashes do that sort of thing to files that are being written to.


On question 2: When I have seen any lockup or crash, from memory at least some of the time the MC Server (which is a service) is still running in the background, and so it will continue to record scheduled programs even without the MC User Interface running. In those cases only the MC User Interface has crashed, and as I said earlier, if left to it own devices, sometimes it will recover even though Windows thinks it has crashed.

In fact I have seen unrecoverable "crashes" (a couple) where the MC Server is happily continuing the recording, which I check by looking at the files, and so I leave fixing the MC lockup up until after the current recording is complete, and then I do a recovery. This has worked well.

However, if the MC Server has actually crashed, then there are Windows functions to restart it. I am using Windows 7, but I'm sure the same functions will be in Windows 10.

Start the Services application in Windows. You will need to be an Administrator, or run it as an Administrator to make the changes. Find the "JRiver Media Center 21 Service". Open the service Properties (double click or right click+ properties). Select the Recovery tab. Set how you would like MC Server to recover. You will see that there are settings for First, Second and Subsequent Failures. If you want MC to always try to recover, set them all to "Restart the Service". Then set the "Reset fail count" to 1 day, and the "Restart service after" to a reasonable time. 1 minute may be fine, lots of services are set to 2 minutes. Experiment with the time if you need to. Read up on the other settings to see if you want to modify them.

Jobs done. Not hard. Enjoy!
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

CountryBumkin

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2016, 07:40:29 am »

Start the Services application in Windows. You will need to be an Administrator, or run it as an Administrator to make the changes. Find the "JRiver Media Center 21 Service". Open the service Properties (double click or right click+ properties). Select the Recovery tab. Set how you would like MC Server to recover. You will see that there are settings for First, Second and Subsequent Failures. If you want MC to always try to recover, set them all to "Restart the Service". Then set the "Reset fail count" to 1 day, and the "Restart service after" to a reasonable time. 1 minute may be fine, lots of services are set to 2 minutes. Experiment with the time if you need to. Read up on the other settings to see if you want to modify them.



Nice tip. You are obviously a computer professional (or big time nerd).
I didn't know this existed. I don't go into Administrative Tools much. I'm going to setup all my MC computers like this - even though I don't have many problems/crashes, this is nice to have.
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imeric

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2016, 10:52:34 am »

Hi RoderickGI.

Point taken, I'll try to tone it down a bit.  However I have to say I was ticked off by Yaobbing's answer.   I am taking a lot of my own hours and time to make MC work and provide help for free (like you and a bunch of others, so mutual respect would be appreciated and Yes I'll do my part, thanks for pointing it out...)

I can understand Yaobbing was probably not happy either so for this I apologize.

And yes my "This alone is critical to me" might sound a little dramatic and may have been taken the wrong way but it is still how I feel...I spent the last 3 1/2 years giving JRiver a "chance" for TV but always reverted back to Sage after a few hours of trying it out.  You are also correct in saying it will take a ramp up and I really feel I'm close to ditching Sage, hopefully now is the time.

I know it will not be perfect and I can live with just a folder for recording and no comskip in the progress bar but I can't live with the crashes and losing recordings.)  I can honestly say I haven't lost more than 10 recordings with Sage in the last 5 years.

BUT hey, if I'm here trying is because I believe in the product and overall It's a thousand times better than Sage...

As for the three crashes in three days I'm not blaming MC as I was torture testing it by doing a lot of things at the same time, playing with the Options AND most importantly I inadvertently left the Sage Service running (my bad)...

Back to the recordings (mine are ts) as I want to keep them compatible with other softwares.  Every time I had the crashes the Server crashed as well.  

Thanks a lot for your suggestion on the service I'll try this out for sure.
I'll do some more testing and post back.
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Yaobing

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 11:12:11 am »


I can understand Yaobbing was probably not happy either so for this I apologize.

I was not unhappy  :)

My answer was probably too terse.

You are the first person to report that partial recordings could not be found after a crash.  When a recording is started, we import the file into MC.  MC then writes data to the TS file as they come in.  So it is puzzling why it is not there.  In Standard view, click Video on the tree and see if you can find it there.  The TS files are in your TV Recording folder, not in the time-shifting subfolder.

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imeric

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 11:46:52 am »

Good to hear! I definitely do not want to be on your "black list" :):)

Ok. I quickly checked and 1 out of the 2 first part of the recording I thought was lost after the crash is indeed listed in the recording folder so it's not missing.   It is just not listed as a recording.  (And that is fine I can live with that as I can search for it and configure the theater view.  I just need to customise it to my liking...)
And as per your comment Yaobbing the second half has (1) in bracket. Excellent!!!

For the other crash (2/2)  the 2 parts are indeed listed in the recording now (in standard view).  Not sure why I couldn't see it last night..(Was getting late...)

So nothing was lost it was just not listed as a recording when I checked last night.
I'll play around with this more and let you know.

As per RoderickGI's suggestion I also changed the service (see pic. attached).  (I chose the same setting Sage has so it should recover on its own.. Feel free to comment if you think I shouldNt have these settigns for the service.
This is great news!

Let's keep using MC for TV!!! :):)
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RoderickGI

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 04:34:25 pm »

Nice tip. You are obviously a computer professional (or big time nerd).

Ha! A bit of both. Definitely a Nerd, but also years of being a Applications Software Presales Consultant, where I mostly supported myself technically, taught me to solve software problems, quickly. I've never been a programmer or technical support person though. I just assume there is always a way to fix a software problem, and go about finding it. I haven't used those Service Recovery properties in years, but I just said to myself, "Sage can do it. It probably isn't Sage software restarting the Service, since it crashed. Windows must be doing it. Let's look at the Service properties and see what can be done."

As it turns out, since Imeric copied the settings from the Sage Service, someone at Sage worked out how to set service recovery settings during installation, probably many years ago.

Yes Imeric, those settings look fine. Just remember if your PC has a huge problem any time in the future, and the MC Service cannot start for any reason, it will keep trying forever. You should notice that though from the CPU load, and/or Task Manager/Resource Manager/Services Manager.

Otherwise it is all good. I just thought you could start to accept the software (any software) isn't ever going to be perfect, and so some compromise is needed. Often, just by starting to use the software, how to get around issues becomes obvious. I understand that you are doing this, and you are doing well in identifying issues, so kudos.

As for Yaobing's (waving) short answer, I consider any answer from Yaobing as a pointer in the correct direction, rather than a complete answer. If I get a full answer I am very grateful (waving again). If I get no response I understand. Because Yaobing is the developer, and I know he is coding fixes and improvements to MC. While I love that we get direct contact with the developers, I want them to be coding most of the time. I could make a big list of things I have raised, which haven't yet had response. But I could write a pretty big list of things which have been fixed or improved as well. What I have noticed though, is that even stuff for which I haven't had any direct response or solution, later appears as a fix or change in the change log.

Finally, we could get way more support from JRiver, but then the software would cost $560, with an annual maintenance fee of $100. But that still wouldn't mean quicker fixes or improvements. For home use software, the low price and support via the forum works very well, at least for me. Which is why I contribute.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

CountryBumkin

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Re: Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 05:21:27 pm »


As per RoderickGI's suggestion I also changed the service (see pic. attached).  (I chose the same setting Sage has so it should recover on its own.. Feel free to comment if you think I shouldNt have these settigns for the service.
This is great news!

Let's keep using MC for TV!!! :):)

 I set the third failure "to restart computer". - Don't know if that is smart or dumb, but I figure if it fails three times a forth restart isn't gonna fix it.
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RoderickGI

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Re: (SOLVED) - Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 06:56:05 pm »

Yep, for a dedicated HTPC that isn't a bad idea. After all, the HTPC isn't meeting its primary purpose if MC Server isn't running. Whatever else is running couldn't be more important . . . unless you are doing some important maintenance on it, like backing up or restoring a drive, or some other recovery process. In which case you should stop the Service manually and it shouldn't restart.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

imeric

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Re: (SOLVED) - Losing first part of recording after a crash
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 10:20:19 pm »

This was a great tip RoderickGI..(I'm wondering why I didn't think about it.....Hats off! This tip should be publicized in the wiki as i twill go a long way for reliability of recordings!!)

Currently watching a recorded show...So far so good!!
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