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[canever]

hello,

I have configured 3 zones in my MC20; each zones changes the Output Encoding of the Audio Device.
The Audio Device is able of PCM, DSD in DoP and 2xDSD in DoP.
I have tested MC with the Audio Device, zone by zone, and they work well.

I have 3 tracks, one PCM, one DSD, one 2xDSD. The song for the 3 traces is the same but the Sampling Rate and the Format.

I made an Album where I collect the 3 tracks: one flac 96KHz, one dsf 2.822MHz and one dsf 5.644MHz.

If I play the "Album" I would like JRiver plays track 1, when over track 2 and then track 3 ... where track 1 is Zone 1, track 2 is Zone 2 and track 3 is Zone 3 ... and each Zone sets a different Output Encoding on the same Audio Device.

really, if I play the "Album", when MC arrives at the end of each track it stops.
And if I try the Forward it doesn' t work. Impossible to go out from one zone.
If I play track by track, MC plays well, setting the right Ouput Encoding and the Audio Device detects the changes.

The matter is with an Album with the tracks belong to different zones, where each zone sets a different output encoding.
After each track MC stops. Isn't able to play a list with tracks of different zones.

Is there a right setup? What am I loosing?

Thanks for any suggestion.

[blgentry]

I asked essentially this same question a month or two ago.  I was told that this is a known limitation of the zones system when using rules to send different audio types to different zones with different playback options.

In your case, I don't know why you need zones though.  If you set bitstreaming to DSD, then one zone should play PCM as PCM and DSD of any flavor as DSD, as long as your DAC can handle the DSD type being sent to it.

Maybe someone else has some better information or suggestions.

Brian.

[Arindelle]

I agree with Brian.

If the audio device is capable of handling all 3 types of files, you shouldn't be changing zones. (or I'm missing something?) Maybe you need specific output settings to your DAC for one of the DSD options? I'd think the DAC would switch when needed ... but I gave up on DSD a year ago so I'm just fishing

Without a stop rule with ZoneSwitch activated, this probably will give you an error or stop playback. Are you using zoneswitch? With three zones its sort of hard to setup zone switch  (frankly I'm not sure how to do that, but I think you can - with two zones it's easy but with three not sure as it not what's the word .... boolean??).

Gapless would probably not work either, and there could be a pause or crack maybe from your DAC.

Is there another reason you want to do this like specific sets of DSPs per file type?

[canever]

Read the previous post about the "matter". I hoped in some news.

I pointed out the question because the DAC I am using detect exactly the coming data.
And it shows exactly PCM or DSD and the related sampling rate that MC is playing.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ____________

In short, when there is a DSD over PCM, the DSD is "carried" on PCM frames at 176.4KHz.

When there is a .dff or .dsf playback the DAC shows exactly the Sampling Rate in MHz, and a lock to DSD.
When MC goes to a Pause after a DSD file playied, the DAC shows a PCM lock and a 176.4KHz sampling rate.
I would like to continue to see a lock DSD and 2.8MHz till a new track will play.

Anyway the behaviour is right but it is not convenient to see the display of the DAC that when a .dff or dsf file is over and MC move to pause, instead to stay locked to DSD, moves to PCM 176.4K. It is the "carrier" said at the beginning, so it is not a mistake but I would like to mask this condition.

By the zones, forcing the output encoding, the matter disappears but it is not possible to play a playlist with tracks from different zones.

 

[Arindelle]

I pointed out the question because the DAC I am using detect exactly the coming data.

ah so you mean that the DAC needs the exact output to work, it doesn't switch automatically ... sort of like non-upsampling dacs??

well, I'd try putting in a zone switch rule if you haven't already, otherwise I'll leave this to the DSD experts here. You might want to post the make and model of your DAC, might help.

[canever]

the DAC is a new entry and it will be presented at the Mucnich HiEnd in may 2016.
Already presented to the magazines in germany on december. Shortly it will appear.

the USB input is based on XMOS XS1-U8 chip and uses the Thesycon driver, set to ASIO.

I am working on a tutorial (really a part of the manual and user guide) to explain the users - usually newbies over 45 years old with no interest in the software configuration - what the DAC is able to do, and the tutorial is based on JRiver because it works both Windows and Mac OS.
More, JRiver was part of the group defined the DoP. So everything sounds good and professional.

It is a step by step guide about JRiver setup for the maximum performances, together the DAC, of the liquid music chain.
 
To the newbies it is difficult to explain why the DAC shows PCM 176.4KHz when it just played a .dsf at 2.8MHz and it is in Pause.
For the newbies it should be a mistake. So to avoid any speculation by the market I focused on the zones.

Unfortunately a playlist with tracks from different zones doesn't work, better, when should be a switch from a zone to another MC doesn't switch.

That's the whole story on this nitty gritty detail.

 

[blgentry]

You should verify that using output encoding is NOT transforming the DSD data in between into PCM.  Normally, any output encoding means that the internal DSP engine *will* be used and it only operates in PCM.  As I'm sure you're aware, going through PCM internally obviates any benefits of DSD.

Even with your separate zones, you should not need output encoding.  You should only need bitstreaming.  Have you tried just bitstreaming with output encoding turned off?

Brian.

[dtc]

It seems like the issue is with the DAC. When it stops playing it no longer senses DSD and reverts to showing the DoP frequency. So, the DAC only shows DSD when it is actively receiving DSD. That has to be the design of the DAC. It can either remember the last format (DSD) or the last sample rate (176) for display when nothing is playing. The DAC designer chose to display the sampling frequency rather than remembering and showing the last format when play has stopped. I do not see how the player can change this. It is a DAC issue. Personally, I do not really care what it displays when nothing is playing. If you think it is an issue for new users, I would simply explain the issue briefly. Trying to do zones is more complicated that explaining that the DAC actually receives DSD at a 176K sample rate.

[canever]

@dtc

... already met in the other thread about the DAC issue.

I am the designer of the DAC, and as you said I have "masked" the behaviour.
Now the DAC, when there is a pause, shows the last format locked and not what it is receiving.

On the other thread the question remained open: why JR when there is a Pause, DoP and DSD streaming, sends always PCM?
You already replied in the other thread and it is cause the "carrier" used to bring the DSD by PCM (176.4KHz is used).

Here the question is different even if discovered trying to solve the previous matter, but already replied since the beginning:
impossible to make a playlist with tracks from different zones.
Why I use the zones bring to the other thread.

Anyway thanks everybody for the replies.
Ciao.

[dtc]

FYI - I just checked my Chord Hugo and when the last track of a DSD album (using DoP) finishes its display reverts to the PCM sample rate. This happens at the end of an album not but between tracks. Note I play whole albums, not playlists. If I stop a track the display also reverts to the PCM rate. Sounds like the same behavior you are seeing.

[canever]

exactly what I am experimenting.
You are right. At the end of an album and not at the end of every track.
same for me.

Ciao

[rotho]

Are there any news about this problem ?

Because I have a DAC which can only handle DSD64, I have defined two zones with different output encodings : "Zone DSD" for DSD 64 files, and "Zone PCM" for PCM files and DSD above 64 files (which are converted to PCM).
I have also activated the Zone Switch feature : when I am in "Zone DSD" and want to play a PCM file, the player automatically switches to "Zone PCM", and vice versa.

However, when I want to make a playlist mixing DSD 64 and PCM files, it is impossible : there are two separate playlists, one for "Zone PCM" and one for "Zone DSD", and the player always remains on one of them only.

Is there any plan to solve this problem in a future version ?

[canever]

seems JRiver isn't interested to manage the trouble.

And the features should be useful for a lot of people because nowadays more than one DAC can play both DSD and PCM.

It is a peaty we can't collect in a playlist traces in different format.

[rotho]

Perhaps that will be solved with the SoX resampler in MC22  ?
Can the SoX resampler handle DSD ?
Will it be possible with SoX to define different output encodings in the same Zone ?
(I have never used SoX myself, so, sorry if it is a silly question  )

[blgentry]

Because I have a DAC which can only handle DSD64, I have defined two zones with different output encodings : "Zone DSD" for DSD 64 files, and "Zone PCM" for PCM files and DSD above 64 files (which are converted to PCM).

You should not be using the Output Encoding feature.  You should be using bitstreaming in your DSD zone.  Output encoding will force MC to convert your DSD files to PCM, and then reconvert them back to DSD after.  That's not what you want.  Bitstreaming will actually send the DSD files unaltered to the DAC.

Brian.

[rotho]

You should not be using the Output Encoding feature.  You should be using bitstreaming in your DSD zone.  Output encoding will force MC to convert your DSD files to PCM, and then reconvert them back to DSD after.  That's not what you want.  Bitstreaming will actually send the DSD files unaltered to the DAC.

Brian.

Sorry I hadn't made myself clear : by "different output encodings", I meant "different audio settings". I am of course using Bitstreaming for the DSD zone...