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[larichardson73]

I recently installed JRiver on an old laptop and hooked that up to my AV receiver via HDMI.  It took me a while to notice that JRiver is recognizing my TV, not the receiver, as the output device for sound.  I have read a little about this, and I know that HDMI can be tricky.  When listening to music, the sound cuts off if I turn off the TV.  I don't mind this. I just set JRiver to "display view" and have that showing on the TV when music is playing.  My only question is:  if the TV is listed as the output device, is the TV doing the digital to analog conversion, or is the receiver doing it?  I would like the receiver to do this.

Anybody know?  It seems strange that the TV would handle this.

[Arindelle]

don't get this?

 what audio device have you chosen in Audio Devices for the zone you are playback from ? (or the default zone Player if you have not set up Zones)

what playback device is showing in Windows?

Normally you would want the TV just as a monitor, so you would not be choosing it as the audio device (although the TV might show up as an option). You would want either your sound card, or external DAC to do the conversion ... not the TV of course. If the AV receiver has the DAC incorporated in it there are can be multiple options to set it up, I don't know what you have.

I'm assuming you have HDMI from a Sound Card to an AV receiver for muti-channel playback? If not a SPDIF output might be easier.

Have you read this and browsed any relevant links at the bottom of the page ? http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup. You might want to do that and check your basic configuration.

You are right though HDMI can be a bit dodgy sometimes if not set up right. Might be a good idea to indicate you entire signal chain including external DAC; how many playback channels, tuners on your PC; if your receiver is a pre/pro etc. if you still have issues after rechecking the WIki.

PS - you might want to try Theater View rather than just Display view for music ... display view is a bit limiting, and you can control everything form the TV screen that way.

[larichardson73]

I have chosen "Toshiba-TV (AMD high definition audio device) [WASAPI]" as the output device.  That is the only option, other than the laptop's soundcard.

Windows shows the same options.  The laptop's soundcard, and the Toshiba TV.

I have the laptop connected to a Sony AV receiver, which is connected to the Toshiba TV.  I'm wondering why only the TV is showing as an output option, and not the AV receiver.

I don't have an external dac, other than the AV receiver, which I would like to act as the DAC.

Does that make sense?

[glynor]

The video card drivers often name the output as the connected endpoint, which in this case is the TV (it is at the end of the display chain, and is what is actually displaying the video). That does not mean anything other than the name given to the output in Windows.

It should probably identify it as the AVR, and not the TV, but... They're trying to make it "easy" for people who don't understand the whole chain.

[larichardson73]

Thanks so much Glynor.  That's what I suspected.  So, the receiver is serving as the DAC, then output to speakers/headphones. 

[Arindelle]

ah I see Glynor. But is the endpoint the TV for audio?? A little confused by this as I don't use HDMI for audio connections myself

[glynor]

ah I see Glynor. But is the endpoint the TV for audio?? A little confused by this as I don't use HDMI for audio connections myself

The ultimate endpoint is the TV, and the video card driver names the output that. The device in the Device Manager can't have one name for Audio and another name for Video (it is only one device in Device Manager that serves both functions), and both nvidia and AMD switched them over to call themselves the name of the connected display a few years ago.

I think it is to "help" users who want to see the name of the display they're connecting to in the list of possible connections (and so avoids support emails). In any case, dumb as it may be in some cases, that's how it works.

Some HDMI switches that hide the EDID of the display (such as a Crestron DMS) will show up as "Crestron" or whatever in Device Manager. Basically all consumer AVR type setups are called whatever the TV connected to the Primary Output of the AVR is called.

[blgentry]

But something isn't right.  He says audio stops if he turns off the TV.

I thought I read something about needing to set up the Windows and/or MC sound devices with the TV turned off in some cases, in order for it to pick up the AVR.

Brian.

[CountryBumkin]

It's the dreaded handshaking issue.
In MC there is an option (Tools>Options>Audio>Settings) for "Disable Device from Turning Off (useful for HDMI audio)". Maybe this will help

[glynor]

But something isn't right.  He says audio stops if he turns off the TV.

This is common with AVRs due to the HDMI handshake process. It depends on:

* Your specific AVR
* Your specific video output device and drivers

Many of them do this. Sometimes you can work around it (with something like a HDMI Detective that intercepts HDMI calls on the wire) and sometimes you can't.

In any case, HDMI is a bi-directional bus. It isn't like the old analog days. The PC can see the TV at the end of the chain, and the devices in between, and there are interactions between them (unlike the old days where, best case, the PC could only see the device to which it was directly attached). If anything changes in the HDMI chain, the GPU driver has to decide what is "best" to do. A lot of them interrupt and stop playback. That's actually a pretty reasonable thing to do from a "video display" perspective (if you can't see it anymore, it should stop using the display). But in the "edge case" of using HDMI for audio-only, it can cause issues.

[imugli]

But something isn't right.  He says audio stops if he turns off the TV.

If I have this right...

He has the (Video) HDMI output of the laptop connected to a HDMI input on the AVR, then a HDMI from the AVR to the TV.
Given that HDMI video is generally passed through AVRs to the end device, the Laptop sees the TV as the Output.
If the TV is on, the HDMI connection can be routed. If it isn't, it cant.
Basically, the laptop HDMI isn't looking to offload the audio from the HDMI output on the laptop to the AVR, THEN pass video (if any) to the TV. It's looking to pass A & V to an end Video device.

There may be a setting in your Video card settings that recognises both the TV and the AVR, and let's you route sound to the AVR without the TV.

[ferday]

i have the same issue with my onkyo

The solution was to run an SPDIF as well as the HDMI and configure the zones etc. but if JRiver is outputting to the HDMI I can only achieve sound if the TV or PJ is on. 

IMO the handshake issue is in the GPU, because this doesn't happen if I use the onboard HDMI as the output. 

[larichardson73]

In MC there is an option (Tools>Options>Audio>Settings) for "Disable Device from Turning Off (useful for HDMI audio)". Maybe this will help

Yes, I have this box checked.  I also have the laptop set to never go to sleep, and never turn off.  There is no "problem" per se with playing audio.  I think that sometimes people have problems because the computer wants to shut off the display when there is no screen activity, which, in turn, shuts off the audio.  In that case, the above mentioned is helpful.  That's my understanding anyway.

The only "problem" is that I have to have the TV on in order to play audio.  I just have MC set to jump to display view on play, and have a visualization (screen saver thingy) set up.  It works fine, although it's kind of distracting to always have something on the TV when I'm listening to music.  I might try some of the workarounds listed on the forums here.  Or else, I could eventually just buy an external DAC, and connect to the analog inputs on the AVR.

I was just confused when I noticed that the TV was listed as the playback device in Windows and MC, and was worried that maybe the TV was doing the digital to analog conversion.  But that's not the case.

Thanks everyone for your replies.  It's been really helpful, and I love this forum.   

[larichardson73]

If I have this right...

He has the (Video) HDMI output of the laptop connected to a HDMI input on the AVR, then a HDMI from the AVR to the TV.
Given that HDMI video is generally passed through AVRs to the end device, the Laptop sees the TV as the Output.
If the TV is on, the HDMI connection can be routed. If it isn't, it cant.
Basically, the laptop HDMI isn't looking to offload the audio from the HDMI output on the laptop to the AVR, THEN pass video (if any) to the TV. It's looking to pass A & V to an end Video device.

There may be a setting in your Video card settings that recognises both the TV and the AVR, and let's you route sound to the AVR without the TV.

I think your summation is right.  Although, I'll just qualify by saying I'm pretty dumb with this stuff.  I don't think there is any way to "separate" the audio and video signals when you connect through HDMI.  I think it's all or nothing.  That's something I remember from another thread.  I couldn't find anything in the AVR settings that indicated it would be possible to listen to audio without having the TV on.  I think checking the video card settings is a good idea.  I'll try that eventually I think.  Mostly, I just wanted to make sure that MC was recognizing the correct device.

[imugli]

Essentially, yes it is recognising the *correct* one. It's just not the device you *want* it to recognise :-)

[fooze]

These might be helpful for someone who wants to turn their telly off and still play music through HDMI.

Go from video card to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Direct-Ibis-Bi-Directional-Passthrough/dp/B00629NHW6

Then plug your tv in one side and this in the other:

http://www.amazon.com/ElectricalCentre-fit-Headless-CompuLab-Display-Emulator/dp/B00FLZXGJ6

Dunno how many channels it would present, or even if that would be a problem. Haven't got into HDMI audio yet.

[dtc]

Can you use usb for audio playback? The new Sony AVRs support that, I believe.

[larichardson73]

I haven't tried USB yet.  It has a USB input in the front.  I think that it is meant for connecting an iPhone or other handheld.  So, if I was gonne connect a laptop to it, I'd need a male to male usb cable I guess.