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[jakpak]

Hi all,

I am encountering a strange error.  When switching between DSD and standard streaming, occasionally, the audio will just stop.  The only thing that will restore audio is reinstalling the driver for my USB connection.

I'm running Windows 7 Pro SP1 on a Dell Optiplex 960.  My DAC is a Bricasti M1 connected to the Optiplex by USB.  The error has occurred while using JRiver MC 21.0.23, switching between a dff and mp3 file.

The M1 has a display that will show "DSD" when streaming the dff, and reads "44.1" when streaming the mp3.  When the error occurs, the mp3 plays fine, displaying 44.1, but the dff produces no audio, and displays "176" instead of DSD.

I'm at my wit's end trying to figure out why this is happening.  The only thing that fixes it is reinstalling my USB driver.  But that driver continues to work for non-DSD.  Anyone have any ideas?  I could figure out capturing the USB output if that level of technical detail would help.

[dtc]

It sounds like you are doing DoP - DSD over PCM. The DSD gets wrapped into a 176 KHz PCM stream and unpacked to DSD by the DAC. It seems like the DAC is not picking up that the DoP signal is, in fact, DoP and it thinks it is a 176 PCM signal. By design a DoP file played at 176 is suppose to puts out a very low level signal, so it it does not damage you speakers. There is an option in Audio Device to set a time for hardware synchronization. You can try increasing that and see if that helps. It was added to deal with this type of situation. You could also try increasing the gap between tracks. Some DACs are just not good at recognizing the DoP signal.

[jakpak]

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to solve the problem.  The DAC hasn't experienced this kind of problem before with DoP (it's designed to play DoP), I've got no idea why it's started up now.  I didn't see the issue with MC 19, but now I'm experiencing it in both MC 20 and MC 21.  I had someone a little more tech-saavy than me look at it, and he said the sync words were changed.  I can get more information about that, if it'd help.

Oh, wait, now it's refusing to even play the file.  I haven't changed anything, I just let it run longer (while not functioning), and the file stopped, and now I get an error message: "Playback could not be started on the output 'WASAPI' using the format 'DoP 2.8 MHz 2ch'.  This ouput format may not be supported by your hardware."  I get the same error message if I try to switch to ASIO (which has been behaving the same in other playback as well). Any ideas why I would newly get that error message instead of it just not outputting audio as before?

[dtc]

I assume it is still working correctly with 176KHz PCM. If you do not have such a file, you can create one by converting a DSD to PCM in MC. You might try re-installing the Bricasti driver. You might also check to see that Exclusive Mode is still set. Another long shot would be to try a different cable.

Not sure what the "sync words were changed" means. There are two separate methods that DoP uses to identify itself and you can set that to the either the earlier version or the current one, but that is a long shot. You would have had to change it somehow.

[jakpak]

Yes, it plays everything fine besides DSD.

It's completely bizarre - I've never had the issue before, and now I've had it on two separate computers, with different cables.  It's obviously deeper than I realized at first; I tried reverting to MC20, MC19, and even MC18, but the issue persists now; and I'd never seen it before last week.  Nothing's changed in my setup or hardware, at least, not to my knowledge.

[dtc]

It may be something happened on the Bricasti.  Does it have a factory reset? You might try playing DSD from foobar or some other player.

[jakpak]

That's my other problem 
I can't seem figure out the DSD through foobar.  I thought to try that when the DSD first started failing me, but it just seems to be decoding the DSD into other formats and playing that.
I tried following these instructions, at least as often as they reflected what my screen was showing.  It just didn't pan out. http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000

[jakpak]

My friend clued me in:  There was a windows security update that all of my windows machines would have applied.  As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to test this issue with those updates peeled back.  It'd be nice if this fixed the problem, but frustrating if an "important security update" caused it...

[crenca]

I run my high res files (both DSD direct - no Dop, and traditional PCM) to a iFI iDSD through the iFI ASIO driver.  I get strange behavior switching from DSD back to PCM sometimes (no audio), and even from high res PCM back to 16/44.  I have to run in shared mode as I need the rest of my computer audio to work through this same playback chain.  In any case, instead of re-installing the driver (or reboot) I disable it, and then re-enable it - clears it up every time.  I write it all off to a wonky ASIO driver and Windows not wanting to play nice.  Just as an FYI

[jakpak]

Huh.  I haven't tried using the ASIO option, I've been on WASAPI this whole time, so I don't think I can even run it in a shared mode.  I tried your disabling trick to save time - it prompts me to restart the computer anyway "for the changes to take effect."

I peeled back all the Windows updates that were applied just before I started noticing this problem (basically everything since the start of January)... I still lose DSD.  I'm officially out of ideas.  Besides those Windows updates, nothing had changed on my systems.

[dtc]

Above you said ASIO behaved the same as WASAPI, so that is a little confusing. Either should work.

I know these are long shots, but I would try re-installing the Bricasti driver and checking the Exclusive options for your device -  under Control Panel - Sound. I know you said nothing has changed, but something clearly has, even if you do not see it. The fact that the symptoms have changed is certainly confusing.

[jakpak]

Whew, sorry for the long delay in my response - I figured out what the issue was: the volume control.  Previously, I'd been leaving JRiver MC on maximum volume, and altering the levels on the M1; since I'd been switching between DSD and standard streaming, I lowered the volume in JRiver to keep the levels similar between the two streams.  By selecting the "maximize device volume during playback" button, I no longer experience the issue I'd been having.  My tech-savvy friend explains it as "the stream was sending volume information along with the DSD information, confusing the DAC" -- I'm paraphrasing to the best of my memory.  Either way, the issue's solved for me.

[dtc]

Glad you got it working again. I am a little surprised, since when using DoP I would expect  MC to do  nothing with the volume. On my system, volume  has no effect on DSD, even when I have Enable Volume When Bitstreaming set. I do not have the Maximize Device Volume option checked.  But at least you are working again. Good news.

[RD James]

Previously, I'd been leaving JRiver MC on maximum volume, and altering the levels on the M1; since I'd been switching between DSD and standard streaming, I lowered the volume in JRiver to keep the levels similar between the two streams.

This is why it is recommended to convert DSD to the highest sample rate PCM that your DAC supports, because then you can use Volume Leveling across all tracks.
I see no benefit to bitstreaming DSD, only restrictions.