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[willrbaar]

My wife and I have some suggested improvements to the JRiver's method to set up and control TV Recordings.  My wife sets up all the recording schedules, and does it from the Theater View.  She also doesn't know anything, nor does she want to know, about JRiver expressions, rules, search capabilities or the Standard View. Our major issue is that everything is based on the TV Guide to set up a recording, and little flexibility beyond that capability. We have these three issues:

Issue 1:  We have had a few times where we needed to set up a single recording beyond the dates provided in the TV Guide.  This was because we were either 1) traveling for a long period, 2) the TV Guide covered period had shorten because of downloading issues (recent example), or 3) we had data that the Guide did not have.  We would like to see a capability were we can set up a single recording with control over the Start/End times, channel, and dates.

Issue 2:  Sports Programming and "Political Unscheduled Speeches" do a great job of shifting broadcast airing times that differ from the TV Guide, especially on weekends.  It would be nice to be able to shift the start time or duration of a scheduled recording.  We cannot do this in Theater View.

Issue 3:  Saving some of the Recording Settings as defaults can be done under Standard View (It took a long time to find this out!), but not Theater View.  Why not move these settings to the Option Menu for Television?  and allow the users to change the settings for scheduled recordings only.  It would simplify things a little and I think a little more consistent with what the Options is meant to do.
 
If I can help in some way, please let me know.

[CountryBumkin]

You have some good suggestions. I would add/ask:

1) How many days of programming are you getting now (there are ways to add more programming data such as if you are willing to use a third-party EPG collector and import the data). How many days in the future would you normally be scheduling?

2) I assume this would only work if you know the actual program has shifted in its time slot just prior the recording starting. The you "manually" shift the recording scheduled (like advance by 15 minutes). I'm not familiar with the technical aspects of this - I'm sure someone else will comment.

3) Others have suggested this too. The subscription defaults setting is a little hard to find, IMO. Maybe when JRiver gets "caught up" they will do this. I know Yaobing has a lot on his "to do" list.
 

[willrbaar]

1) How many days of programming are you getting now (there are ways to add more programming data such as if you are willing to use a third-party EPG collector and import the data). How many days in the future would you normally be scheduling?


I currently have 12 days worth of EPG.  It had been down to 3 days recently because of Rovi's poor handling of the shift over to Daylight saving time.  I don't know how much more EPG data I can get through a subscription.  Do you?   We get printed information that can go out at least a month.  We can be away for as long as 3 to 4 weeks.  Having the flexibility to modify gives the users the power to change things to meet their needs.  I agree that EPG simplifies things a lot, but it doesn't handle every situation.

2) I assume this would only work if you know the actual program has shifted in its time slot just prior the recording starting. The you "manually" shift the recording scheduled (like advance by 15 minutes). I'm not familiar with the technical aspects of this - I'm sure someone else will comment.


You are right about the advance warning on time shift is a very short time frame.  The best example is a football game that is running over, which happens a lot, plus the post game wrap up with the talking heads.  The wife can have a few things set up to record, and it would be nice to easily shift either the duration or times (or both) based on what she knows/situation.  Can't do this with the current set up.  She is still using WMC to do a lot of recording, and probably won't want to bit the bullet until this gets resolved to her satisfaction.

3) Others have suggested this too. The subscription defaults setting is a little hard to find, IMO. Maybe when JRiver gets "caught up" they will do this. I know Yaobing has a lot on his "to do" list.

Is Yaobing the programmer?  Is there anything I can do to help out?  Maybe a couple of prototype forms in C#?

[RoderickGI]

1) I don't know of any way to create a time based recording in Theatre View, whether a once off or subscription. I understand your desire to stay in Theatre View, or at least your wife's. But it is so easy to set up a time based recording using a keyboard in Standard View, isn't there any way your wife could learn to do that? A time based subscription could be set up for all your regular programs, with a reasonable amount of padding to allow for minor time shifts, and you would never have to worry about missing a regularly scheduled program when you go away for a period again (until the schedule changed).

2) You can just click OK on the program in the Guide, then select "Configure Recording", then change the pre and post padding times. A negative pre-padding time is the same as delaying the recording start, and of course a larger post padding time will delay the recording finish.

So if a program is scheduled to run from 7:30pm to 8:30pm, and there is a 10 minute pre-padding and a 15 minute post padding, then the program is delayed 30 minutes before it starts, just change the pre-padding to -20 and the post padding to 45. i.e. Subtract 30 minutes from the pre-padding and add 30 minutes to the post-padding. That will record the program with the same padding as originally planned.

Of course, because you aren't using a keyboard, that is a lot of button presses.

However, for all my programs that may well have a delayed start due to, for example, an earlier program running over time, I just put a much large post-padding time in the Recording Rule. But I have four tuners and don't record an awful lot, so don't have to worry about tuner availability.

3) Yaobing is the primary TV programmer, although others do work on TV functionality at times. I don't know whether he would appreciate prototype forms or not. But if you are a capable programmer, have you looked into what you could do with a stand alone application and MCWS? Perhaps a bit messy, but if you have very specific requirement, a custom solution can't be beat.

i.e. Press a remote button, your custom code pops up over Theatre View, and reads program data from the currently highlighted program, using MCWS. You make whatever changes you want to that data, in the way you want to make the changes, then when finished, send the changes back to MC using MCWS. Not simple, but very custom.

[willrbaar]

We could do what you suggest, but that doesn't make MC21 easier to use for us, and makes our situation more complex.  The reason I created this post is because the recording features in Theater View are lacking, especially when compared to Standard View, or WMC.  I would of thought that the JRiver developers would be interested in improving the User Interface, especially for those Users who are in a situation were they rely heavily on the Theater View UI.  I would of thought that JRiver Developers would be interested in making the MC21 UI superior to what we had in WMC.  Am I mistaken?  Should I move my post over to the MC21 posts to get the developers attention?  I am not going start programming apps to get around JRiver short comings.  That doesn't help the JRiver community.

[Yaobing]

Thank you for your suggestions.  This is the right place to post.

We will continue improve MC, including Theater View.

[RoderickGI]

The reason I created this post is because the recording features in Theater View are lacking, especially when compared to Standard View, or WMC.

My apologies I wasn't meaning to downplay your suggestions. I actually agree with you on this issue, particularly with respect to managing recordings, although that has improved a lot over the last six months. Also, with the huge improvements in Recording Rules I can't imagine providing all the Standard View capabilities in Theatre View, without using a keyboard, and particularly using the JRiver "5 button" policy. But that could be a failing of my imagination. I always fall back to a "this is how you get around that shortcoming response" in these types of posts.

Anyway, you should know that JimH, CEO of JRiver, reads every post on the forum, and as you see above, you have the attention of the primary TV programmer. Can't get better than that.

I don't know if it would add value for JRiver, and I don't think you need to prototype forms in C#, but I would be interested in mock up images of how you would see this done in Theatre View, using just the "5 buttons", Left, Right, Up, Down, and OK, plus I guess the number buttons on a remote, as it can become very complex very quickly. I would guess there would need to be different forms for different types of recordings, and edits of those recordings.

Note though that I am just a user like you, so I have absolutely no say in what JRiver does or does not do. I'm just interested in how you think it may be done. 

Maybe if this thread generates some great ideas, JRiver will adopt them.

[imeric]

Those are very good suggestions indeed!  However I do like how it's all laid out in the Standard view where you see all the current recordings, the "to be recorded" etc...It's a very nice and effective way to ensure all recordings will happen.. I prefer this over Sage.  But I also agree enhanced functionalities within the theater view would be nice!

Issue 1:  We have had a few times where we needed to set up a single recording beyond the dates provided in the TV Guide.  This was because we were either 1) traveling for a long period, 2) the TV Guide covered period had shorten because of downloading issues (recent example), or 3) we had data that the Guide did not have.  We would like to see a capability were we can set up a single recording with control over the Start/End times, channel, and dates.

I believe my  suggestion of combining the "by search rules" and AND/OR "by time" option would address some of this... But then you would do it in Standard View... Which I prefer but I agree not good for the WAF.

[willrbaar]

I don't know if it would add value for JRiver, and I don't think you need to prototype forms in C#, but I would be interested in mock up images of how you would see this done in Theatre View, using just the "5 buttons", Left, Right, Up, Down, and OK, plus I guess the number buttons on a remote, as it can become very complex very quickly. I would guess there would need to be different forms for different types of recordings, and edits of those recordings.

RoderickGI, thanks for your feedback.  This is at least a useful place to start.  I went back to both WMC and MC21 to look at how things are implemented.  WMC has implemented the "5 Buttons" plus the numeric pad approach, whereas MC21 has limited itself to the "5 Buttons" approach.  I don't think the "5 Button" Rule should be the limiting requirement because it holds back what can be implemented, or at least complicates it.  Also, when I looked at my old IR remotes, they all have numeric pads.  So, if MC21 implemented what I am suggesting, then it shouldn't lock people out because of their remotes.  However, if MC21 wanted to limit themselves to the "5 Button" rule, then I believe I have seen some implementations where a thumbwheel approach was used with the up/down arrows changing the numbers (I don't know if this is available in the Programmer's tool box).  
I think JRiver should relook at giving the numeric pad a role in Theater View.  Another capability they should consider adding is "Live TV".  We never used it much in WMC, but they are others who probably would use it.  It also gives you a quick capability to look to see if the Tuner is working when you are in Theater View.


Conceptually, these are the fields I see would be needed.

PRIMARY PANEL:
<Channel
<Date
<Frequency: (Record Once, or subscribe once every week, etc.)
<Start Time
   <Start X mins early
<End Time
   <End X mins late
<Change Presets?
<Save

PRESETS PANEL:
<Keep Length
<Recording Priority
<Record Reruns, Etc.
<Save These Presets as Defaults or This Recording Only?

SEARCH RULES: (NOT FOR THEATER VIEW or the casual user)

If I have time, I'll try to put together some form of mockup.  One of the big issues here is the screen real estate big enough to display all this, or how to display it.  The other big issue is  meshing with JRiver's setup.  It would be nice to hear something back if JRiver would even consider this change.

[RoderickGI]

I believe that JRiver is listening, and will take note of ideas that are shared.

Another capability they should consider adding is "Live TV". 

I don't understand this comment. MC does support the MCE "Live TV" button by default. Pressing the MCE "Live TV" button, or sending the correct IR command to MC, starts live TV playing the channel which was last shown. The "Live TV" button also works as a "Previous Channel" function if TV is already playing, and you were previously watching a different channel.

There used to be some issues with the function some time back, in that the IR command had to be modified to play a specific channel, as the function wouldn't play the Previous Channel, but that was all fixed some time back. Now, if the "Live TV" function in the IR Commands section of MC is set to its default, the function works fine.

[willrbaar]

I don't understand this comment. MC does support the MCE "Live TV" button by default. Pressing the MCE "Live TV" button, or sending the correct IR command to MC, starts live TV playing the channel which was last shown. The "Live TV" button also works as a "Previous Channel" function if TV is already playing, and you were previously watching a different channel.

I didn't realize that MC21 supports the "Live TV" button.  I don't use an IR remote anymore, but have moved over to IRule.  I am using the MCC Core Commands, and I believe that this functionality may be one of the Core Commands (the nomenclature isn't "Live TV") under the playback engine.  I'll have to check it out.

My previous comment on "Live TV" was in error and due to faulty memory.  I thought we could enter a channel numbers directly under "Live TV" in MCE.  I was mistaken.  I was thinking that it might be a nice thing to be able to manually enter a channel number in MC21's Theater View (not a high priority to me).  Looking at the MCC Core Commands, it looks like there is a function there that will let me do this.  Another think to look into.  Thanks for the comment.

[RoderickGI]

Yep, but not in the Playback Engine group. I think Live TV is the eighth option on the Theatre View command in the View group of MCC commands, called just "TV". So command "/mcc 22001,8".

Once live TV is playing, you can just send the channel number and MC will change to the specified channel.

But there is also an MCC command to start playing TV on a specific channel, MCC_PLAY_TV in the "other" group. So "/mcc 30002,#" will start playback of TV on the channel #.

There were some changes and fixes to this area a while back. See discussion here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101523.msg704345#msg704345