Topic: Mac experts help me with MIDI set-up help requested (Read 18305 times)

macdonjh · « **on:** March 20, 2016, 04:03:40 pm »

Mac experts, help!

I'm using a Mac Mini with OS-X Yosemite that feeds my pre-pro and I can't get 5-channel output. I've confirmed that I've ripped multi-channel data from the few DVDs I've ripped (using Make MKV) and I know that my pre-pro can accept up to 7.1 channel audio. I've looked to the Mini and under Utilities -> Audio MIDI Set-Up all options except 2-channel is "greyed out". What do I need to do to get my Mac to send 5.1 channel audio to my pre-pro? New sound card?

blgentry · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:00:24 pm »

How are you connecting to your pre/pro ? HDMI? I'm not 100% sure ,but I thought I remembered reading that multi-channel HDMI is either not supported, or different on MC for Mac.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2016, 02:31:19 pm »

Yes, HDMI. Hmm, if multi-channel HDMI is not supported by Mac, I wonder how to get 5.1 audio out of the computer? Currently my only other outputs are USB and Thunderbolt (or whatever Apple's high-speed connection is called). My pre-pro doesn't support either.

blgentry · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2016, 03:21:38 pm »

I'm honestly not sure how it all works (HDMI audio with Mac) because I've never tried. But I just read a few threads that seem to indicate that it works. Seem.

I would think that the first step would be to get OS X to output in multi-channel mode. As you said, going through Audio MIDI setup is normally the way to do this. Are you certain your pre-pro accepts multi-channel audio via HDMI? I ask because there are some AVRs that switch HDMI video, but won't process audio. I've run into this several times recently.

Hopefully someone else with more experience will chime in here.

Brian.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2016, 03:36:21 pm »

Does this help?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3639822?tstart=0

macdonjh · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2016, 08:22:50 am »

blgentry, I'm positive my pre-pro will accept and correctly decode a 5.1 signal. It works well with my Blu-Ray player, also connected via HDMI.

Awsome Donkey, thanks for the link. It hasn't helped yet, as I'm at work. But I'll try the suggestions of the posters on that forum and see if I can get it to work. What is a "mini-display to HDMI" cable? My Mac Mini has only HDMI, USB and Thunderbolt connectors.

Thank you for your help and suggestions everyone.

blgentry · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2016, 08:58:16 am »

Quote from: macdonjh on March 24, 2016, 08:22:50 am

blgentry, I'm positive my pre-pro will accept and correctly decode a 5.1 signal. It works well with my Blu-Ray player, also connected via HDMI.

Ok, good.

Quote

What is a "mini-display to HDMI" cable? My Mac Mini has only HDMI, USB and Thunderbolt connectors.

Mini display port and Thunderbolt use the same type of connector. It's used on monitors that have that kind of input. It's a different display connector standard. On Macs that don't have an HDMI port (like Macbook Pro laptops), you can plug in an adapter that goes from mini display port to HDMI and then use an HDMI display. This is the same as the Thunderbolt port on these systems.

I would expect that the "real" HDMI port on a Mac mini would transmit multi-channel audio, just the same as the mini display port.... but I'm not sure. Again, something I haven't tried.

The other part of this equation is how you are sending multi-channel audio. If you're sending DD or DTS audio from DVD, are you bitstreaming it? Or are you letting MC decode it? If MC is decoding it, it will be trying to send multi-channel PCM audio. DD and DTS, on the other hand, "pack" that audio into a compressed stream that's carried in a different way...

It might be worth turning on bitstreaming to see if that works. I'm not trying to complicate the issue here... there are just a lot of variables.

What messages do you get from MC, your pre-pro, etc? Does it "think" it's playing but it doesn't?

Brian.

akira54 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2016, 05:41:44 pm »

Quote from: macdonjh on March 20, 2016, 04:03:40 pm

Mac experts, help!

I'm using a Mac Mini with OS-X Yosemite that feeds my pre-pro and I can't get 5-channel output. I've confirmed that I've ripped multi-channel data from the few DVDs I've ripped (using Make MKV) and I know that my pre-pro can accept up to 7.1 channel audio. I've looked to the Mini and under Utilities -> Audio MIDI Set-Up all options except 2-channel is "greyed out". What do I need to do to get my Mac to send 5.1 channel audio to my pre-pro? New sound card?

I too use a Mac Mini with an HDMI connection to a surround amp accepting up to 7.2 channels. Until a few days ago I only ran it in Bootcamp mode with Windows 7 and had no problems with multichannel playback (incl. DTS etc). I now switched to pure OSX mode and have the same problem you have. As under W7 the Mini is connected to the Amp using a HDMI cable. ...

I followed up Awesome Donkey's suggestion and it works ... kind of. In the Audio Midi settings I changed the setup to 7.1 but when I play a movie with DTS sound it outputs it as 7.1 and this is now rue for whatever original sound a film has, it is all output as 7.1. Can't I set it up so the original sound stream is preserved?

macdonjh · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2016, 10:55:31 am »

blgentry/ Awesome Donkey: I've ordered a minidisplay/ HDMI cable, so I'll try that. If it works I get two benefits: surround sound from my Mac and I can ditch my HDMI splitter.

blgentry: Currently, MC21 is set-up (in DSP Studio) for 2-channel JRSS and no encoding. Bitstreaming in Sound-> options is OFF. I gave up trying to get 5.1 channel output for a while, so I haven't tried to alter my DSP Studio settings in the past weeks. I don't get messages from either MC21 or my pre-pro when playing 5.1 movies, the sound just comes out stereo (front left ad front right), even if the original sound track is mono (say 1970s TV shows).

I'll revisit this thread when my new cable is delivered and report how the change behaves. Thanks for your help.

blgentry · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2016, 11:12:22 am »

Quote from: macdonjh on March 25, 2016, 10:55:31 am

blgentry: Currently, MC21 is set-up (in DSP Studio) for 2-channel JRSS and no encoding. Bitstreaming in Sound-> options is OFF.
[...]
I don't get messages from either MC21 or my pre-pro when playing 5.1 movies, the sound just comes out stereo (front left ad front right), even if the original sound track is mono (say 1970s TV shows).

Oh, I see. Well, that setting, "2 channel" is why MC is only putting out 2 channels of information. In DSP Studio, the Output Format section can be pretty confusing. You're looking at the Channels section on the right I think. The "Channels" pull down box controls how many channels MC attempts to send. Generally speaking, you should set this to the number of speaker channels you have hooked up to your external pre-pro. So, if you have a 5.1 system, you should select 5.1 channels.

Then MC should send the proper number of channels. I hope this works for you.

I was stuck on Audio MIDI not showing you more than 2 channels, which I thought was step 1. I guess if you try this adjustment in MC, we'll know whether or not the Audio MIDI settings and display really matter or not.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2016, 02:02:26 pm »

Understood. Changing the output in DSP Studio was one of the first suggestions I got, probably from you blgentry, on this forum. However, changing the output in DSP Studio only didn't solve the problem. That's when I started exploring the hardware and OSX software as the cause of the problem. Now I'm going to try Awsome Donkey's suggestion of the minidisplay/HDMI cable hoping that it will allow me to configure OSX for 5.1 channel output.

blgentry · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2016, 02:29:13 pm »

Having just done 15 minutes of research on this, my head is now spinning...

It seems that this is a fairly well known problem, but I can't seem to find any standard answer to fix it. Several of the solutions indicate that the problem is that the Mac mini thinks the device it is connected to can only accept 2 channel audio. Some people say that the power on sequence of the devices influences this. Someone said that turning TV, then AVR, then Mac Mini finally allowed him to select 8 channel output in Audio MIDI setup for HDMI.

Another person said that his AVR had a setting called something like "TV Audio Output". When he disabled this function, the mini was able to sense that the AVR could accept multi-channel audio. With that setting ON, the mini could only "see" the 2 channel audio capability of the TV itself.

Maybe this gives you a few more things to experiment with. It's a weird problem for sure!

Brian.

akira54 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2016, 07:04:57 pm »

In our setting the MacMini always starts after the amp, so I had no problems setting the MacMini to 8 channel output. The amp acknowledges this by showing "M in 7.1". Multichannel streams play as multichannel but I am not sure what happens when I play a DTS stream. Does anyone know? When the source switches to stereo this all I get (I have set MC21's bitstreaming to ON).

Does anyone know whether it is possible to simply pas the signal through the MacMini without any alteration to the amp, the way it can be done under Windows?

Macdonjh, why don't you try Awesome Donkey's suggestion using your HDMI cable? It works for me and my setup is the same as yours (MacMini, Yosemite). The minidisplay route is only for those without a HDMI port.

blgentry · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2016, 07:48:09 am »

Quote from: akira54 on March 25, 2016, 07:04:57 pm

[...]but I am not sure what happens when I play a DTS stream. Does anyone know? When the source switches to stereo this all I get (I have set MC21's bitstreaming to ON).

Bitstreaming has many different settings. If you really want to bitstream Dolby Digital and DTS, then you should turn on *just* those options for bitstreaming under "custom". I'm not sure what it does if you select HDMI for bitstreaming.

On the other hand, there aren't very many good reasons to bitstream DD and DTS. MC doesn't a great job decoding DD and DTS into multi-channel PCM and passing those along to your AVR. I would recommend turning bitstreaming OFF entirely and trying it out. If you don't like it, you can always change it back of course.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2016, 08:25:21 am »

akira54, I'm a bit confused. Awesome Donkey's suggestion is to follow a link to a forum where use of a minidisplay/ HDMI converter is suggested. That I will try next week when my cable arrives from Amazon.

I'll also try turning my gear on in different orders. I currently follow the old-school process of source-preamp-amp. I could start the Mac last easily enough. Looks like I need to order more Pixie Dust from Markertek.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2016, 08:48:47 am »

Quote from: macdonjh on March 26, 2016, 08:25:21 am

akira54, I'm a bit confused. Awesome Donkey's suggestion is to follow a link to a forum where use of a minidisplay/ HDMI converter is suggested.

The link I posted is to the Apple Support Community containing screenshots of the Audio MIDI Setup, which is what I was referring to. akira54's right, the part about the converter is for those without a HDMI port.

akira54 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2016, 04:14:44 pm »

Quote from: macdonjh on March 26, 2016, 08:25:21 am

akira54, I'm a bit confused. Awesome Donkey's suggestion is to follow a link to a forum where use of a minidisplay/ HDMI converter is suggested. That I will try next week when my cable arrives from Amazon.

Just follow the advice but apply it to an HDMI cable, which is what I did with some good results. I certainly have multichannel now. Make sure you also set MC to multichannel output (not just within Audio Midi).

macdonjh · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2016, 11:18:51 am »

Awesome Donkey & akira54, well, shoot, I read the first bit of the Apple forum but didn't read the second half carefully enough. Now I'll have yet another cable laying around that I don't need. And I still have to reread Awesome Donkey's post again. That'll teach me not to pay attention.

macdonjh · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2016, 07:57:55 pm »

I tried:
1: Setting MC to 5.1 channel output
2: Setting Sound Output on the Mac to the only choice available that isn't internal speakers
3: Going to Audio MIDI Setup, but all choices besides 2 channel are grey and unavailable.

Then I tried:
1: Turning off my Mac and my pre-pro
2: Connecting the Mac directly to the pre-pro via HDMI (usually I use a splitter so I can connect my single HDMI output to both the pre-pro and a monitor)
3: Turning the pre-pre on
4: Starting the Mac
5: Setting MC to 5.1 channel output
6: Setting Sound Output on the Mac to "not internal speakers"
7: Going to Audio MIDI Setup and finding all choices except 2 channel grey and unavailable.

I'm stuck...

bertbul · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2016, 03:28:22 am »

Hello guys,

i am stuck with this sound issue over HDMI, the situation on my MBAir 7,2 is as follows connected to my Pioneer AVR VX-923 via mini displayport adapter bought from Amazon Proxima Direct® Mini-Displayport to HDMI:

I have a picture on the connected TV , Sound with VLC and select under Audio --> HDMI works fine even Multichannel to DVD-A --> Success

But with the same Settings of my MB the Apps Audirvana+ and JRiver MC20 nosound working, before i go crazy who can help me evtl. has solved this issue regarding this Apps. Because i have a huge collection of SACD Isos and Flac also DSD Hires Muisc (VLC is not able to play those ISOS or DSD).

THX in Advance

Dornkaat

blgentry · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2016, 07:08:15 am »

^ Have you selected the HDMI output as the sound device in MC's setup?

Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > (Select device here)

Brian.

bertbul · « **Reply #21 on:** April 25, 2016, 07:43:10 am »

yepp, done .... as i wrote vlc works like a charme .. settings in jriver evtl.anything to ajust ..?

thx

bert

bertbul · « **Reply #22 on:** April 25, 2016, 08:11:14 am »

Hi,

sorry overseen your advice ... JRiver is set to HDMI it plas but no sound ... i do not know why ... the playback button is not accesable on OS X while setting HDMI as Playback device, on the AVR i cant adjust anything it is only the other end of the HDMI Chain, the AVR is correct recoqnized by the MAC and everything is correltly set but no sound ... if i use my usb dac everything works great ....

thx

Bert

blgentry · « **Reply #23 on:** April 25, 2016, 08:30:29 am »

Quote from: bertbul on April 25, 2016, 08:11:14 am

JRiver is set to HDMI it plas but no sound

Hmm, so you see the dancing bars at the top of the MC window, but you hear no sound through your AVR.

Quote

the playback button is not accesable on OS X while setting HDMI as Playback device,

I don't know what you mean by "playback button on OS X". Pressing Play in MC should start the music. I'm assuming you did that though.

I wish I had more experience with HDMI under Mac; it's really hard for me to help very much because I'm kind of guessing since I've never done this myself.

I hope someone else will come give advice that's actually used HDMI with the Mac version of MC.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2016, 05:57:43 pm »

I received a few more suggestions elsewhere. Here is what I've tried recently:

I confirmed the following in JRiver:

Tools -> Options-> Audio -> Audio Device -> set to HDMI
Tools -> Options -> Audio -> Audio Device -> Device Settings -> Open Device with Exclusive Access is "unchecked" (integer mode is checked).

Player -> DSP Studio -> Output format -> I've tried "none" for output encoding and Dolby Digital, I keep selecting 5.1 channel output but usually find it reset to 2 channel when I reopen this window.

Still only outputting stereo from a DD 5.1 soundtrack. I still see only Stereo option in Mac OSX Audio MIDI set-up. Still hoping I can make this work somehow.

macdonjh · « **Reply #25 on:** May 10, 2016, 05:15:46 pm »

Stay tuned... I'm talking with the manufacturer of my pre-pro. This problem may be a firmware issue with the pre-pro.

macdonjh · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:55:06 pm »

Pre-pro manufacturer is going to provide me with a new HDMI PCB. Hopefully that will fix the problem.

blgentry · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:40:59 am »

^ Wow that's crazy. Keep us posted on your progress please.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #28 on:** May 27, 2016, 04:48:47 pm »

Received the new HDMI input card today and got it installed. Still no 5.1...

In MC21:
DSP Studio: Output Encoding: none
DSP Studio: Channels: 5.1 channels
Mixing: JRSS mixing
Tools -> Options -> Audio -> Audio Device HDMI (Core Audio), Open device with exclusive access in Unchecked, Integer mode is Unchecked

In the Mac:
Settings -> Sound -> Output HSR41
Applications -> Audio MIDI Setup -> Output -> 44100 Hz 8ch-24bit integer (I've reset it to 48000 Hz twice...)
Now here's the weird thing: when I go to Speaker Set-up:
Click left front and white noise comes out of left front
Click Center and white noise comes out of left AND right front
Click right front and white nose comes out right front
Click left surround and white noise comes out left front
Click right surround and white noise comes out right front
Each has a different "device channel" assigned...

I had all kinds of trouble getting anything to play at first, so I connected my Mac directly to my pre-pro, removing the powered HDMI splitter I was using. That didn't make any difference, still no 5.1 channel.

blgentry · « **Reply #29 on:** May 27, 2016, 05:41:28 pm »

^ The sonic behavior you just described sounds like your pre-pro is in a mode where it thinks it only has 2 channels connected. Do other sources (not your Mac) connected to your pre-pro play true 5.1 audio? Do any of these sources connect via HDMI?

Something is sending 5.1 audio to only 2 channels. I'm not sure if it's the Mac, or the pre-pro, or some combo...

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2016, 07:36:40 am »

blgentry, I had the same thoughts. At least now the Mac recognizes the pre-pro as a multi-channel device. I didn't check the DVD/BD player last night because it played multi-channel just fine before I changed HDMI input cards, but now it's also playing in stereo. I'll have to go back through the set-up of the pre-pro. I was pretty confident it was still a Mac issue, but now it looks to be pre-pre set-up some how.

My goodness, I might be getting close to getting this solved.

blgentry · « **Reply #31 on:** May 28, 2016, 07:48:48 am »

Quote from: macdonjh on May 28, 2016, 07:36:40 am

My goodness, I might be getting close to getting this solved.

That would be awesome! Keep us posted.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #32 on:** May 28, 2016, 12:05:39 pm »

I think I was tired last night. I'm pretty sure I had turned off the amp that powers the surround speakers. Everything was on this morning and we got Kung Fu Panda all through the theater room. So the good news is I can get stereo and surround through the universal player and stereo off the Mac Mini. The bad news is I can't get surround off the Mac Mini, and that weirdness with the channel routing (see yesterday's post) is still there.

Does that have something to do with the way JRiver is "bundling" the multichannel output thinking it has only a stereo amp to go to? Where do I set the bundling, or bucketing, or whatever it's called? I don't remember seeing that in DSP Studio, I think it's buried deeper in the menu tree.

Thanks for all your help with this.

blgentry · « **Reply #33 on:** May 28, 2016, 12:46:02 pm »

DSP Studio > Output Format > Channels

That's what tells MC how many channels to output. You might try turning JRSS mixing off. But I don't think it will make a difference.

Can other programs on the Mac play 5.1 audio through HDMI?

Oh, and of course you need to check the audio path while playing a 5.1 channel source to see what MC thinks it is doing: Player > Audio Path (or hover over the "blue light" next to the random and repeat buttons).

That should tell you exactly how many channels MC is sending and whether or not it is converting any channels.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #34 on:** May 28, 2016, 03:10:21 pm »

I haven't tried any other programs. I guess I should load a DVD into the drive and see if it plays in surround sound with QuickTime or whatever.

I did double check the audio path this morning and confirmed that the DD audio track was chosen. I'll check into DSP Studio/output format/ channels...

blgentry · « **Reply #35 on:** May 28, 2016, 04:30:21 pm »

Quote from: macdonjh on May 28, 2016, 03:10:21 pm

I did double check the audio path this morning and confirmed that the DD audio track was chosen.

What you want to look for in the Audio Path is Input, Changes, and Output. If the input is 6 channels, we are hoping that the output is 6 channels also and not being changed (mixed down) to 2 channels.

Brian.

macdonjh · « **Reply #36 on:** June 01, 2016, 06:51:06 pm »

I'll double check the path. But...

Good news, it's working now. The changes I made are:
- New HDMI input card for my pre-pro
- Changed set-up in Audio MIDI as shown in one of the posts above
- Changed set-up in MC21 Tools and DSP Studio as shown in one of the posts above
- Double checked and corrected the set-up on the pre-pro
Any way, it's all working correctly now.

Thank you so much, everyone for your help.

blgentry · « **Reply #37 on:** June 01, 2016, 07:33:06 pm »

Yay!

That's twice today I got to say that.

Congratulations. I'm glad to hear it's finally working. This is also great confirmation that HDMI on a Mac, with MC *will* pass 5.1 audio and be received by a pre-pro. Awesome.

Brian.

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Author Topic: Mac experts help me with MIDI set-up help requested (Read 18305 times)