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[metac]

guessed as much 

so what are the chances of hardware decode?

[apgood]

That is probably up to hendrik. Based on a development thread I saw on Kodi forum I think there is an intel sdk 1.8 that allows hardware decoding of 3D MVC in windows 8.1 & 10 but it is limited to Intel cpu plus intel integrated gpu that support it (i.e doesn't work if discrete AMD or nVidia gpu installed).  Based on the limited usecase it might not be worth the effort if time consuming to implement or has other limitations the reduce its appeal from a development perspective.

[RoderickGI]

However it may be attractive if an Intel NUC could be coaxed into showing 3D video through hardware decoding.

The more a NUC can do the more attractive they become for use as MC Client PCs.

[jmone]

FYI - Quick test  on my Intel Stick (2016 version) and while I did not expect it to play well, it did not kick off Frame Packed 3D at all.  Kind of got a wide horizontal banding on the screen instead (it then hung with a Black Screen after a bit).  Need to have a better play tomorrow.

[StuckMojo]

Intel gpu hardware decoding would be great. Otherwise i can't use it.

I did some tests with my Intel MeegoPad CPU Stick: (Intel HD 4200 GPU)
-It works, but stuttering like hell. 

Playing a full 3D Bluray ISO in PowerDVD 15 with MeegoPad works excellent.

Would be great if we could get gpu hardware support. 

[apgood]

However it may be attractive if an Intel NUC could be coaxed into showing 3D video through hardware decoding.

The more a NUC can do the more attractive they become for use as MC Client PCs.

Highly dependant on which nuc you get as based some of the discussions 3D hardware decoding only works on some model nuc's e.g. does not work on any of the Celeron based ones or the N3050. Really depends on what Intel have enabled for a given model processor in their windows drivers.
Note: this is based on what I have read not personal experience as I don't have a NUC or use that build of Kodi (or anyother version for that matter).

[metac]

Highly dependant on which nuc you get as based some of the discussions 3D hardware decoding only works on some model nuc's e.g. does not work on any of the Celeron based ones or the N3050. Really depends on what Intel have enabled for a given model processor in their windows drivers.
Note: this is based on what I have read not personal experience as I don't have a NUC or use that build of Kodi (or anyother version for that matter).

Thanks for the info. But i guess this isn't really any different from some PCs are only capable of Red October Standard or madvr low settings, etc.

Making this work (entirely up to Hendrik and not a priority since PowerDvd does work) would enable a JRiver Id3d (windows based almost plug-n-play  ) box.

Despite intel's best efforts to release wonky drivers/bios/etc, NUCs are almost perfect clients for MC. Ultra low power, built in IR, fanless cases available, plenty fast enough for normal HTPC duties.

[rudyrednose]

NUCs are almost perfect clients for MC.

+1
I have two first gen i3 NUCs, in the dining and living room.  On a smaller screen (50" and less) I can live without Red October HQ, and after a few years I am still very happy about the NUCs as MC clients. 

3D HW decoding support on Intel HD graphics would be nice (although only my PJ is 3D capable, and it is Radeon driven).

Again, thank you all for this development.

[TheShoe]

pretty much identical issues for me too, using a intel d54250wyk nuc (i5 ~ i3 desktop). Win10, latest HD5000 drivers, latest LAV/MadVR.

It starts OK (in 3D) for about 5 seconds then stutters badly then crashes MC 21 after a minute or two.

OSD report shows the various queues don't fill at all. Tried lowest settings for everything. Plus FSE on/off/D3D11 sync/alternate glitch in all combos. To be fair D3D11 isnt that great for 2D either, CPU/GPU queues need to be larger for smooth playback, but then forward/skip don't work too well.

No hardware acceleration is the key I think Hendrik mentioned earlier.

As a reference, powerdvd 13 works fine. but its powerdvd...

similar i guess in that it doesn't work

for me, i get this weird playback effect (glasses on or off) - let me try to describe it this way:

Imagine you have 6 frames to be displayed in order,

F1...F6

when it plays back it does it this way:

F1 / F2
F2 / F3
F3 / F4
F4 / F5
F5 / F6

...and so on.  it's quite amusing to watch and jarring at the same time as you can see frames repeated.

does JRiver kick into some other 3D mode depending on the file name?  i do have my files named: "xxxxxxx.3D.sbs.mkv" because including ".sbs." in the name tells OpenElec on a Raspberry Pi2 to switch to hardware MVC decoding;  kind of a hack to be sure but it works.

[TorqW]

Anyone else getting audio out of sync after an hour or so when playing 3D mkvs?
Using LAV and Madvr versions as of last Sunday (13th).

Have to restart the movie to get it back in sync.

Other than that - it's an amazing experience to have 3D blu- Ray's as accessible as all other films in my library.
Maybe it's my set up but it jriver + madvr looks better than my oppo 105 when playing 3D. Watched The Martian last night - a phenomenal audio visual treat.

[madshi]

Anyone else getting audio out of sync after an hour or so when playing 3D mkvs?
Using LAV and Madvr versions as of last Sunday (13th).

Have to restart the movie to get it back in sync.

Other than that - it's an amazing experience to have 3D blu- Ray's as accessible as all other films in my library.
Maybe it's my set up but it jriver + madvr looks better than my oppo 105 when playing 3D. Watched The Martian last night - a phenomenal audio visual treat.

Do you have the madVR option "use alternative glitch handling mode" checked or unchecked? Try checking it.

[TorqW]

Where do I find that option? Using 0.90.15 and I can't see it anywhere.
Thanks again.

[Beamer]

Anyone else getting audio out of sync after an hour or so when playing 3D mkvs?
Using LAV and Madvr versions as of last Sunday (13th).

Have to restart the movie to get it back in sync.

Other than that - it's an amazing experience to have 3D blu- Ray's as accessible as all other films in my library.
Maybe it's my set up but it jriver + madvr looks better than my oppo 105 when playing 3D. Watched The Martian last night - a phenomenal audio visual treat.

After installing the correct madVR and LAV filters for 3D I noticed that audio went out of sync after a pause on 2D content.  In addition JRiver would no longer go into exclusive screen mode.

After reverting to my original filter setup and re-booting, audio sync is fixed and exclusive mode now functions.

[metac]

After installing the correct madVR and LAV filters for 3D I noticed that audio went out of sync after a pause on 2D content.  In addition JRiver would no longer go into exclusive screen mode.

After reverting to my original filter setup and re-booting, audio sync is fixed and exclusive mode now functions.

Same here for the pause then audio sync issue. Reverting to default.

[madshi]

Would be good to know whether the issue comes from the new LAV or madVR build?

[Hendrik]

New LAV comes by default with MC 21.0.58

[Beamer]

Same here for the pause then audio sync issue. Reverting to default.

I do not pretend to understand why but this solution appears to resolve the exclusive mode and sync problem:

1: Install all filters required for 3D
2: Uninstall LAV filters using Programs / Uninstall (leave the JRiver filters in place)
3: Install LAV and uncheck everything except the 3D filter
4: Re-boot

This works for me but your mileage may vary !

Please be advised that I have NOT tested 3D operation, Only 2D at this point.

I wonder if there is a conflict between the JRiver filters and those installed by the package



 

[Hendrik]

You don't need to do anything to LAV anymore with MC 21.0.58, it ships a recent LAV on its own including the 3D plugin, so all you would need for 3D is to update madVR.
I have been running the latest LAV (ie. the one that comes with MC) and madVR 0.90.15 for a while and not noticed any problems in 2D playback.

PS:
If you uncheck everything but the 3D feature in the LAV installer, it will in fact do nothing at all, except "install" the readme file. The 3D feature is a plugin to LAV Video, so if thats not enabled, its plugin is of course also not installed.

[Beamer]

You don't need to do anything to LAV anymore with MC 21.0.58, it ships a recent LAV on its own including the 3D plugin, so all you would need for 3D is to update madVR.
I have been running the latest LAV (ie. the one that comes with MC) and madVR 0.90.15 for a while and not noticed any problems in 2D playback.

PS:
If you uncheck everything but the 3D feature in the LAV installer, it will in fact do nothing at all, except "install" the readme file. The 3D feature is a plugin to LAV Video, so if thats not enabled, its plugin is of course also not installed.

Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand why it still works

Alas I'm still on MC20 

[Beamer]

Just installed MC21 but exclusive mode does not appear to work on 2D

[Hendrik]

MC by default ships a madVR configuration with exclusive mode disabled, did you make sure its actually enabled?
Also, how did you determine its actually not turning on?

It works fine here.

[Beamer]

Sorry   I wrongly assumed that the upgrade would take the parameters from my old MC20 install.

I confirm it works in exclusive mode.  I don't see the MVC 3D file, does it need to be added manually?

[Hendrik]

We try to preserve the madVR settings as best as we can, but a major update will often not manage that, unfortunately.
Not sure what you mean with MVC 3D file. The LAV that comes with 21.0.58 should include it (libmfxsw32.dll). madVR doesn't need any extra file.

[Beamer]

We try to preserve the madVR settings as best as we can, but a major update will often not manage that, unfortunately.
Not sure what you mean with MVC 3D file. The LAV that comes with 21.0.58 should include it (libmfxsw32.dll). madVR doesn't need any extra file.

21.0.58 up and running. Thanks for your help and clarification.

[TorqW]

Does anyone else suffer from exclusive mode only kicking in once the mouse is moved (when watching DVDs over the network)?

[stewart_pk]

I have not. But I find Exclusive Mode more trouble than it's worth as every time it starts and stops with mouse movement my projector detects this as some sort of change. And if you've ever used a JVC projector switching frame rates or settings is a like 10-15 wait. I looked at the CPU percentage and it seemed identical between Exclusive Mode On/Off so I'm not really sure what the point of it is anyway.

[TorqW]

Thanks Stewart - yes I'm using a jvc projector too.

Do you use d3d11 or the default d3d9?

Just wondering which is best to use.

Also - I'm going to assume there's no change in quality no matter what I use.

It may be a psycho visual effect, but I always felt image quality degraded slightly the minute dxva processing kicked in.

Any other jvc peculiarities you've noticed? (I keep the Clear Black set to off as I find it introduces a non-filmic digital feel)

[stewart_pk]

Thanks Stewart - yes I'm using a jvc projector too.

Do you use d3d11 or the default d3d9?

Just wondering which is best to use.

Also - I'm going to assume there's no change in quality no matter what I use.

It may be a psycho visual effect, but I always felt image quality degraded slightly the minute dxva processing kicked in.

Any other jvc peculiarities you've noticed? (I keep the Clear Black set to off as I find it introduces a non-filmic digital feel)

I think I've used both D3D11 and D3D9 and they both work and I can't tell a difference.

For 3D in JRiver I don't think DXVA is applicable because there is no hardware support, video is decoded by the CPU.

No not really. If I put on Clear Black on Low which I have it on now it has such a subtle effect, but I left it on as it's suppose to increase sharpness only in dark areas. I think I can see a slight improvement with it on Low. I have 4-K EShift Off for 1080P content as I find it softens the image in a bad way. For 2D I have Clear Motion Drive Off as I don't like it but for 3D I have it on Low as I think it provides a very nice smoothing effect with no noticeable artifacts.

[Hilton]

I wasn't sure where to put this but here seemed like as good a place as any.

I've created a "send to" script in MC21 to send my 3D ISO rips to 2 dvdfab virtual drives for makemkv to autorip and create my 3D MKVs.

makemkv by Hilton, on Flickr

My Custom Default Profile for makemkv
 

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<profile>
    <!-- profile name - Default -->
    <name lang="mogz">:5086</name>

    <!-- Common MKV flags -->
    <mkvSettings
        ignoreForcedSubtitlesFlag="true"
        useISO639Type2T="false"
        setFirstAudioTrackAsDefault="true"
        setFirstSubtitleTrackAsDefault="true"
        setFirstForcedSubtitleTrackAsDefault="true"
        insertFirstChapter00IfMissing="true"
    />

    <!-- Settings overridable in preferences -->
    <profileSettings
        app_DefaultSelectionString="-sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang),+sel:havemulti,+sel:multi,+sel:stereo,+sel:havecore,+sel:lossless,+sel:forced,+sel:video,+sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang"
    />

    <!-- Output formats currently supported by MakeMKV -->
    <outputSettings name="copy" outputFormat="directCopy">
        <description lang="eng">Copy track as is</description>
        <description lang="ger">Track 1:1 kopieren</description>
    </outputSettings>

    <outputSettings name="lpcm" outputFormat="LPCM-raw">
        <description lang="eng">Save as raw LPCM</description>
        <description lang="ger">Als RAW LPCM speichern</description>
    </outputSettings>

    <outputSettings name="wavex" outputFormat="LPCM-wavex">
        <description lang="eng">Save as LPCM in WAV container</description>
        <description lang="ger">Als LPCM im WAV-Container speichern</description>
    </outputSettings>

    <outputSettings name="flac-best" outputFormat="FLAC">
        <description lang="eng">Save as FLAC (best compression)</description>
        <description lang="ger">Als FLAC speichern (höchste Komprimierungsstufe)</description>
        <extraArgs>-compression_level 12</extraArgs>
    </outputSettings>

    <outputSettings name="flac-fast" outputFormat="FLAC">
        <description lang="eng">Save as FLAC (fast compression)</description>
        <extraArgs>-compression_level 5</extraArgs>
    </outputSettings>

    <!-- Default rule - copy as is -->
    <trackSettings input="default">
        <output outputSettingsName="copy"
                defaultSelection="$app_DefaultSelectionString">
        </output>
    </trackSettings>

    <!-- Save LPCM mono or stereo as raw LPCM -->
    <trackSettings input="LPCM-stereo">
        <output outputSettingsName="lpcm"
                defaultSelection="$app_DefaultSelectionString">
        </output>
    </trackSettings>

    <!-- Put multi-channel LPCM into WAVEX container-->
    <trackSettings input="LPCM-multi">
        <output outputSettingsName="wavex"
                defaultSelection="$app_DefaultSelectionString">
        </output>
    </trackSettings>

</profile>

ISOmountE batch file for virtual drive E:

Code: [Select]

SET INPUT1=%1

SET ISOFileNamePath=%INPUT1%

SET ISOmount="C:\Program Files\DVDFab Virtual Drive\vdrive.exe"

SET makemkv="C:\Program Files (x86)\MakeMKV\makemkvcon.exe"

%ISOmount% /M:E %ISOFileNamePath%

timeout /t 5 /nobreak

%makemkv% --minlength=3600 -r --progress=-same mkv disc:0 all w:\

pause

ISOmountF batch file for virtual drive F:

SET INPUT1=%1

SET ISOFileNamePath=%INPUT1%

SET ISOmount="C:\Program Files\DVDFab Virtual Drive\vdrive.exe"

SET makemkv="C:\Program Files (x86)\MakeMKV\makemkvcon.exe"

%ISOmount% /M:F %ISOFileNamePath%

timeout /t 5 /nobreak

%makemkv% --minlength=3600 -r --progress=-same mkv disc:1 all w:\

pause

[Hendrik]

As of 21.0.65, MC includes all required parts for 3D playback out of the box, which includes a new option to enable 3D playback, which means if you've previously used it, you'll need to enable that option to continue using it.
Full setup instructions have been posted here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103931.0 .. that thread will be unlocked as build 65 becomes available. If you have any feedback about the instructions, just mention them here for the time being.

[Hilton]

Very Nice work Hendrik and madshi!!!! 

[Hilton]

Quick video of my autorip script in action.

Desktop 03.23.2016 - 23.53.51.11.DVR by Hilton, on Flickr

[madshi]

If you have any feedback about the instructions, just mention them here for the time being.

3 very minor things. Please feel free to ignore:

1) You're using the following phrase (twice): "[support for natively playing] 3D Blu-rays and MKV files directly made from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV". While totally correct, on the first reading I thought for a moment it meant: "3D Blu-Rays and MKV files -> both directly made from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV". In order to avoid any misunderstandings, maybe it could be changed to "3D Blu-rays and 3D MKV*) files", and in the foot notes you could write "*) 3D MKV files must be MVC MKV files created directly from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV"?

2) requirements: "Native 3D output requires HDMI 1.4 and Windows 8.1 or newer". Not sure if most MC users understand what "frame packed" means. Technically more specific would be "Frame packed 3D output" instead of "Native 3D output". But maybe "Native" is better to understand for the average user?

3) requirements: "The system to recognize the TV as 3D (Stereoscopic 3D options in the systems Display Settings dialog)". True, but only for "frame packed" or "Native" output.

Maybe the following would make it clearer?

requirements:
* Media Center 21 Build 21.0.65 or newer
* Red October HQ and a system capable of running it
* A 3D TV and matching glasses

additional requirements for frame packed / native 3D output (these requirements don't apply for SBS):
* HDMI 1.4 and Windows 8.1 or newer
* The system to recognize the TV as 3D (Stereoscopic 3D options in the systems Display Settings dialog)

[CountryBumkin]

@Hilton,
I don't quite understand what your script is doing. You said it sends the movie to "makeMKV" to create a 3D file.

Is this the purpose - because I just open the movie with the makeMKV program and create a 3D rip one movie at a time. I don't have anything against automating any process, but you went to a lot of trouble to make this script, so I assume it does more or I'm not understanding the full benefit of your script. Or maybe you just like to program - which is good too.

[Hilton]

@Hilton,
I don't quite understand what your script is doing. You said it sends the movie to "makeMKV" to create a 3D file.

Is this the purpose - because I just open the movie with the makeMKV program and create a 3D rip one movie at a time. I don't have anything against automating any process, but you went to a lot of trouble to make this script, so I assume it does more or I'm not understanding the full benefit of your script. Or maybe you just like to program - which is good too.

It's a lot quicker and I have a lot of 3D ISOs already in MC21 so I can quickly convert them and leave it running in the background. I know there is a batch converter for makemkv too but at least this way I can speed up the process and still have some control and visibility of what's going on.  Theoretically I could also set it up to do 5 or more at a time.   The script only took an hour and I learnt more about makemkv in the process.

PS. It was also quite tedious to manually select the titles and options required as the default makemkv profile is rubbish.

[Hendrik]

Wonder if we should tell Hilton that the next MakeMKV version will likely preserve more 3D metadata than the current one, or wait until he is done converting all his ISOs?
I think waiting is probably best.

[Hendrik]

3 very minor things. Please feel free to ignore:

Thanks for the feedback, I modified the requirements to make the distinction between native/frame-packed and all other modes more clear.

[Hilton]

Wonder if we should tell Hilton that the next MakeMKV version will likely preserve more 3D metadata than the current one, or wait until he is done converting all his ISOs?
I think waiting is probably best.

Thanks mate... I think.... 

[Hendrik]

Speaking of, MakeMKV GUI can at least directly open ISO files, do you really need to mount them?

[Hilton]

As of 21.0.65, MC includes all required parts for 3D playback out of the box, which includes a new option to enable 3D playback, which means if you've previously used it, you'll need to enable that option to continue using it.
Full setup instructions have been posted here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103931.0 .. that thread will be unlocked as build 65 becomes available. If you have any feedback about the instructions, just mention them here for the time being.

One other thing. I had to disable the Intel IGPU on my CPU to get 3D to work with Lav/MadVR on the Nvidia card.  I never had to disable this before using other 3dplayers but the IGPU seems to interfere somehow and 3D never gets invoked because it's now using DX11 instead of native Nvidia 3D play.

[Hilton]

Speaking of, MakeMKV GUI can at least directly open ISO files, do you really need to mount them?

Did not know that. I hadn't dug very deep into makemkv before today.

PS.
Quite right the iso: option reads the ISO without mounting.


I've got 10 files converting at once just by right clicking in MC21 on the videos I want to convert with my script.  Thanks Hendrik.

Code: [Select]

SET INPUT1=%1

SET makemkv="C:\Program Files (x86)\MakeMKV\makemkvcon.exe"

%makemkv% --minlength=2000 -r --progress=-same mkv iso:%INPUT1% all w:\

pause



[Hendrik]

That was no joke earlier btw, if you have a long list of 3D ISOs that you want to convert to MKV, its probably a good idea to wait for the next version so the extra metadata isn't lost.
We already got confirmation that one piece of metadata is definitely going to be fixed in the next MakeMKV version (the eye-order of the views), and hoping for subtitle depth metadata to also make it, although the dev has been quiet of late.

The current version expires end of march, so its likely a new version will be released soon.

[Hilton]

That was no joke earlier btw, if you have a long list of 3D ISOs that you want to convert to MKV, its probably a good idea to wait for the next version so the extra metadata isn't lost.
We already got confirmation that one piece of metadata is definitely going to be fixed in the next MakeMKV version (the eye-order of the views), and hoping for subtitle depth metadata to also make it, although the dev has been quiet of late.

The current version expires end of march, so its likely a new version will be released soon.

Thanks I'll just keep the ISO's instead of deleting them and when the eye order and sub depth comes out I'll re-rip since it's pretty easy now.  At least I know what to look out for now! Thanks again.

[JimH]

I started a thread on AVSforum:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2376530-3d-blu-ray-using-madvr-lav.html

If you, Hendrik or madshi, have any problem with it, or want to change anything, please let me know.

I also added a post in our thread there:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1352282-jriver-media-center-owner-s-thread-73.html#post42624194

[madshi]

No problem at all. Welcome, actually.

[RoderickGI]

Just to clarify the setup.

It appears that for the first time not all settings are available in MC for this new feature, unlike with RO HQ previously, which for many was set and forget. A user must make settings changes in madVR to make 3D playback work.

Hence the new feature:
21.0.65 (3/23/2016)
4. Changed: Added a link to the madVR settings from the Video settings page.

So rather than having to play a video then right click on it to access madVR settings, a user can now access them directly via this new function.

Correct?

That may need some clarification in the instructions. While this development has been particularly geeky (a good thing), a lot, if not most people will just want to use it, and not learn much to set it up.

Suggestions for wording changes:
Change "Options -> Video" to "MC Options -> Video", because now users are changing settings in two applications, so it would be good to be specific about which application the changes are being made in.

Change "properties -> 3D format: auto for HDMI frame-packed" to "properties -> 3D format: auto" because the actual setting is "auto" and there is no setting or mention of "HDMI frame-packed".

Maybe change "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV are supported at this time, other 3D file formats, <snip>" to "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV, both of which use the Frame Packed 3D output format, are supported at this time. Other 3D file formats, <snip>" if you wish to mention frame packing is the supported format.


Anyway, great work thanks guys. This will improve the WAF quite a bit . . . once I add a discrete graphics card and upgrade to Windows 10. 

[Hendrik]

Maybe change "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV are supported at this time, other 3D file formats, <snip>" to "Only unmodified 3D Blu-rays or MKV files created from 3D Blu-rays with MakeMKV, both of which use the Frame Packed 3D output format, are supported at this time. Other 3D file formats, <snip>" if you wish to mention frame packing is the supported format.

The output is unrelated to how the files are encoded.

[RoderickGI]

The output is unrelated to how the files are encoded.

Okay, so my understanding of the requirements leave something to be desired as well. 

That just shows that either "HDMI Frame Packed" doesn't need to be mentioned, or that some further clarification is required.

[Hendrik]

That just shows that either "HDMI Frame Packed" doesn't need to be mentioned, or that some further clarification is required.

Both the encoding and the output mode are important, they are just not related to each other.
You can decode a H.264 MVC encoded file (ie. a 3D Blu-ray) and output it as SBS, or you could decode a SBS file and output it as HDMI 1.4 3D (ie. "frame-packed") - note that the second is not something MC supports yet, though.

[stewart_pk]

I'm being pedantic, I know

* A 3D TV and matching glasses

* A 3D TV or Projector and matching glasses