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[Hilton]

Hi All,

I have a reasonable collection of DVD movies and music concerts and am about to go through the process of ripping them. (Ive been mostly focussed on Blu Ray and Music for some years now)

I'd like to know how to get the best image quality for upscaling DVD to 1080P (and later on to 4K).

I have a GTX 760. In MadVR it cant do much more than nnedi3 16nuerons for chroma with Jinc image upscaling and SuperRes refinement 1.  There are still some obvious artifacts at the 120" screen size im using and Im not happy with the quality.

I was wondering if ripping and transcoding to 1080p with handbrake and some image refinement might be a better way to go. (obviously at the expense of time and disk space)
Disk space is cheap, and time, well I've waited this long to pull the DVDs out, I can wait a while. I also have a very high end workstation that can make mince meat of the transcoding.
Of course I could get a beast of a video card but I was trying to create a situation where it looks good on other TVs around the house (40">65") that dont have the benefit of powerful media PCs.

So what are peoples thoughts and experiences with these 2 different approaches?

Cheers
Hilt.

[AndrewFG]

I would be tempted to rip at the original format. And then you could use whatever latest technology to upscale it when playing. Otherwise you might risk to have a conversion on ripping and a second on playing. Which would surely not be ideal..

[jmone]

I have a bunch of older shot Music DVD's as well and the source quality on some of these is just terrible (Meat Loaf - Bat of of Hell comes to mind).  Nothing is going to make a some of those DVDs look good.

[Hilton]

I have a bunch of older shot Music DVD's as well and the source quality on some of these is just terrible (Meat Loaf - Bat of of Hell comes to mind).  Nothing is going to make a some of those DVDs look good.

Yeah thanks Nathan, I think from some quick testing I just did that one of the discs just has some quite bad mastering on it and it causes strange interlacing and combing issues. (A Toni Braxton music video dvd)

I just ripped a track from the Fleetwood Mac Tango in the Night concert with Xmedia Recode and another copy of the track with handbrake with a tiny amount of deblocking.
The MadVR live upscaling direct from the disc is actually the best but it still occasionally has de-interlacing or combing effects that the ripped copies dont seem to suffer from.
The de-interlacing issues is what's putting me off the most.

There's plenty of film noise and the concert certainly isnt very sharp but it looks right for the time, and brings a certain character with it.  
I think it's about as good as its going to get on a 120" screen. (apart from the de-interlacing issues)

So.... What's the secret settings to completely remove the de-interlacing artefacts?

The de-interlacing artefacts are mostly visibly around the musicians heads and faces when they make fast movements. (it looks like deinterlacing cant handle the movement in small areas)

From my understanding the best deinterlacing method is usually adaptive vector/motion and weave.  Should I just switch to DXVA and let the GPU take care of it or should I force film mode in MadVR when I see the motion deinterlacing artefacts?

[Hendrik]

Offline processing can produce higher quality, since its not processing time constrained, but you would need to do quite a bit of research into the tools and processing options available to clear up the potential artifacts and setup a high quality upscaler.
Don't expect to find a finished tool that just does everything for you, most people that try to do such things probably manually setup filtering in AviSynth or VapourSynth.

So unless you really want to go down this route, ripping in original is probably best and easiest, as no quality is lost (as it might be in a "bad" upscale), and you can tune the settings for playback at any time.

[jmone]

Sorry - I did not pick up it was about the de-interlacing in particular.  

This was a big issue for me a few of years ago (I found that either VA or YADIF was the go), but could not for the life of me (at the time) remove combing from my DV-AVI Home Videos so in the end did a manual conversion of all of them to H264 Progressive.  That said, I believe the latest versions of filters are very good with de-interlacing (Hendrik would be able to confirm but I saw some posts about another Deinterlacing option that was being developed for madVR as we speak).  Anyway, had a quick look at an original DV-AVI and the H264 Progressive converts and the look the same to me!

[blgentry]

Here's the thing:  If you do any transcoding (handbrake) or deinterlacing or upscaling, you've lost the original.  I could never figure out a way to make Handbrake rips that were of equivalent quality to the original DVD.  On many DVDs, it wasn't noticeable.  But then on others (mostly fast motion) it was SUPER obvious that it was now soft and lacked "pop".

Ripping with MakeMKV, to the original video format fixed all of those problems for me.  Then you'll have a true original copy you can use for playback, or as a source for doing later post processing (upscaling, deinterlacing, etc).

Brian.

[RD James]

It sounds like you're already creating a conversion when ripping, which might be the source of your problems.
Always rip DVDs with a tool like MakeMKV which retains the original MPEG2 video. Tools like Handbrake re-encode the video to H.264
Any conversions you do to video can only lose quality from the original.
 
Offline processing theoretically could give you better quality than madVR, but in my experience few tools offer the quality image processing that madVR has.
The bigger issue is that you've now created a copy and have lost the original.
Say you spend 24 hours per disc processing an offline copy to create the best possible quality 1080p video that you can.
What happens when you upgrade to a 4K display? Then an 8K display?
You're processing a processed video again.
 
As long as you are ripping with MakeMKV, I find that deinterlacing problems with concert DVDs can usually be solved by tagging the file correctly.
Most concerts tend to be video-type material instead of film-type, but you can specify either.
Just add [deint=video] or [deint=film] to the filename to force one of the two modes in madVR.
 
I'd also suggest that using NNEDI3 for chroma may not be the best use of limited GPU resources.
NNEDI3 is the best upscaler for chroma, but chroma scaling is usually the hardest to see the benefit from.
If using a lower quality chroma scaler lets you use better luma scaling, I'd use that.
If you can get NNEDI3 working for luma, that makes the biggest difference for DVDs. I would turn down everything else to get that working.
I'd also suggest disabling super res. I find that just exaggerates the video artifacts that you're trying to avoid in the first place.
 
Setting up a separate profile in madVR for SD content and HD content can help a lot with this.
My system can upscale DVDs using NNEDI3 but not HD content. Creating a profile with this rule makes it easy to set that up.

Code: [Select]

if (uncroppedSrcHeight<=576) "SD" else "HD"

[Hilton]

Thanks for your input guys. Appreciated!

I've worked out one of my issues is the ol' madvr not detecting film for DVDs.
Forcing film mode for movies and some of my DVD concerts has fixed most of the deinterlacing issues and allowed me to run NNEDI3 32 neuron chroma and 32 neuron image quadruple with Jinc.
No dropped frames and 85% GPU utilisation. Who knew the little GTX 760 had it in it.

Image quality is now remarkably better!