Topic: Can I control Id with iPhone or iPad where there's no wi-fi network? (Read 15930 times)

richard-ec2 · « **on:** April 19, 2016, 06:26:37 am »

Let's say I buy a JRiver Id for one reason only - to use with headphones when I'm travelling. I control it with JRemote on an iPad or iPhone.

Now let's say I go to some place where there's no wi-fi network. How then can I control the Id?

astromo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2016, 03:50:58 pm »

Get yourself a portable WiFi router. This is what I've got for travel purposes:
https://www.asus.com/au/Networking/WL330NUL/
Also great for those old school hotels that offer an ethernet cable. This particular unit just needs a USB power source that potentially could come from a spare port on the Id.

However, I've not tried to get it working with the Id but it shouldn't be too difficult. From this review:
http://www.techhive.com/article/2150772/network-storage/asus-wl-330nul-travel-router-review-the-world-s-tiniest-temporarily-insecure-router.html
transfer speeds are reported to drop to around from 20Mbps up close to 3Mbps through a wall and 9 feet of distance. I'd expect that that should be OK for most hotel rooms given that you're only streaming audio.

There are other travel routers out there. Over to you to research further. Like most things in life, your final decision will probably be a compromise on features based on your needs and equipment constraints.

Whatever you end up doing, it would be great if you reported back on your progress.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2016, 09:02:23 am »

Many thanks for the helpful reply, which was very interesting. I didn't realise you could get such tiny routers.

I think I should have emphasised that I'm thinking of a situation where there's absolutely no internet connection of any kind, nor any Wi-Fi access - for example, visiting an elderly relative for the weekend who has never owned a computer and has no internet connection to their home, or visiting a remote holiday cottage where there's no internet or Wi-Fi access. I'm not sure from reading the product description whether that little Asus device would work in that situation - it seems to me that it's aimed at connecting multiple devices to a single internet connection, not connecting multiple Wi-Fi devices to each other. I wonder if it would work if it had no internet connection?

Since posting I also learned that it was possible to use your PC into a local wireless hotspot, using its internal Wi-Fi card to communicate with nearby devices. I tried it on one PC and it did work but the signal was weak and unreliable. That may have been a problem with the network card on that PC so I'm going to try it with another.

Meanwhile, however, another big problem that's occurred to me is that the JRiver Id has neither screen nor keyboard and therefore once you're out on the road you have no way of accessing it, so if the slightest thing went wrong you'd be stuck. I'm beginning to think that what I'd hoped would be a one-box solution might in fact involve carrying around a ton of stuff - screen, keyboard, router, iPad, the Id itself, its power brick, an external DAC and headphone amp and a pair of headphones!

DJLegba · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2016, 11:14:28 am »

There should be an app for your iPad that will let you do remote control on the Id (although I don't know for sure as I don't have an Id). But I'm curious why you're not looking at a more portable travel setup such as the Pono.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2016, 11:24:26 am »

The Pono player and the Id aren't that much different in size. In a travel bag, I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference in volume or weight.

DJLegba · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2016, 11:36:26 am »

Interesting. Would the OP still need a portable WiFi device? I assume he'll have his iPhone/iPad with him anyway.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2016, 11:48:12 am »

You would need some kind of WiFi network.

mwillems · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2016, 12:23:28 pm »

So just as an FYI and technical side-light:

JRemote and Gizmo require a wi-fi connection between the JRiver instance being controlled (in this case the Id) and the phone/tablet doing the controlling, but you do not necessarily need an external wi-fi router or an internet connection to get that working depending on your hardware. Full disclosure, I don't own an Id, but I have used JRiver on a headless raspberry pi in places where there was no wi-fi or internet access using the two methods described below. I should also clarify that I did this using an android phone not an iphone, so there may be some differences. The first method below should work out of the box with the Id, the other would require a change on JRiver's end.

Two alternatives, the easy one first:

1) If your phone has a "mobile hotspot" or tethering functionality you're golden. Most modern phones have the option (assuming your carrier permits). It effectively turns your phone into a wi-fi router. On my Samsung Note, the SSID and password are the same each time. So I configure my headless MC box to auto-connect to the wireless network that my phone provides when "hotspot" is turned on. When I want to control my headless MC box where there's no wi-fi, I just turn on my phone's hotspot, my JRiver box auto connects and JRemote and Gizmo work perfectly. The one bit of fiddling is that if you use your Id on lots of different wi-fi networks, your access key may not work correctly just at first, so you might need to specify the IP address of the Id/JRiver box in JRemote, but on my phone at least it shows you the IP of the connected devices on the same page where you activate the hotspot and its the same every time, so it was a one and done. This should work out of the box with the Id unless there's something I don't know about the Id handles wireless networks.

2) This one would require some tinkering on JRiver's side, but in the same way that most phones can be a mobile hotspot/access point, many commercial wi-fi chips can also act as an access point/router instead of a receiver. Richard mentioned this above in reference to a normal PC, but a surprising number of chips support both and with modern cards it works fairly well. Assuming the wi-fi chip in the Id supports it, JRiver could potentially code a switch or configuration option that would put the wi-fi card in the Id into access point mode. Then any device with a wi-fi receiver (i.e. your phone) could connect to the Id as though it were a router, and JRemote and Gizmo would work. To be clear, this isn't entirely theoretical, I did this with a headless raspberry Pi in my office for 6 months or so. I turned it's usb wi-fi card into an access point, and then when I came into the office my phone was configured to automatically connect to the wi-fi, and JRemote and Gizmo worked a treat from there. The linux network scripting involved is non-trivial for an end-user, so I wouldn't advise anyone to try and hack their Id into doing it, but it is potentially an option for more advanced users, and it's something for the devs to mull.

I used both methods daily for approximately 6 months each, and both worked great with my little headless MC box. Hope this adds to the discussion.

Last, but not least, if there's anything you need to do that you can't do in JRemote or Gizmo, I understand that the Id now supports remote access, so you could also use your phone to remote in and fix any issues.

astromo · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2016, 03:19:38 pm »

Useful comment mwillems.

The potential advantages of a travel router is that it may avoid some of the tweaking by the user that you relate in alternative 2 and would reduce the draw on the smart phone battery in alternative 1. These may or may not be issues but are probably worth considering.

As long as you can locate the router WiFi ID and code in the pass key on whatever device that needs to be on the off-the-grid LAN, you're away with a travel router.

However, if the system concept is to work in minimalist mode via headphones, then just listen to the smart phone directly. The compromise there would be that the user would not necessarily be listening to HiFi audio formats and certainly not through an audiophile DAC.

I go back to my opening reply, which admittedly is a statement of the obvious but true nontheless:

Quote from: astromo on April 20, 2016, 03:50:58 pm

Like most things in life, your final decision will probably be a compromise on features based on your needs and equipment constraints.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2016, 05:03:56 pm »

Very interesting comments. To answer a couple of points:

I don't think a Pono or any other portable player would work because the aim of this exercise is to have a means of carrying around your entire lossless music library and the Pono wouldn't have enough storage. Plus, I would like to keep the JRiver or JRemote interface.

The iPhone has the same limitations, plus a not very high quality sound card.

And no streaming or internet-dependent option would work because I expect to be out of reach of the internet or Wi-Fi in most cases.

Mwillems, that's a good idea of yours, using the phone (or iPad) as a personal Wi-Fi hotspot - I hadn't thought of that. Plus, as you say, there's also the alternative of using the Id as a Wi-Fi hotspot and it would also be possible to use a remote desktop to access the Id.

My big worry, though, is this. Say you're on the road. Each time you move from one place to another, you have to shut down the Id because it has to be unplugged from the mains and doesn't have any battery. You get to your next destination, plug it in and, with a bit of luck, the Wi-Fi connection to the iPad works and so does Remote Desktop and JRemote. But what if it doesn't? What if the Wi-Fi doesn't start up or there's some other glitch? You're then completely helpless for the rest of your trip unless you can find access to a keyboard and a screen. I know from having tried the PC-based personal hotspot that the connection is disabled every time you shut down the PC so you would need to be very sure that you had a way around that.

Having said that, it sounds from your experience as if it was pretty much trouble-free over a long period. I wonder, though, if you were shutting down the Id (or rather, Raspberry) every night and starting it up again the next day, in headless mode, and always getting a reliable Wi-Fi link?

Astromo, I agree, I'll never get exactly what I want but it'll be interesting to see how close I can get.

mwillems · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2016, 09:44:59 pm »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on April 21, 2016, 05:03:56 pm

My big worry, though, is this. Say you're on the road. Each time you move from one place to another, you have to shut down the Id because it has to be unplugged from the mains and doesn't have any battery. You get to your next destination, plug it in and, with a bit of luck, the Wi-Fi connection to the iPad works and so does Remote Desktop and JRemote. But what if it doesn't? What if the Wi-Fi doesn't start up or there's some other glitch? You're then completely helpless for the rest of your trip unless you can find access to a keyboard and a screen. I know from having tried the PC-based personal hotspot that the connection is disabled every time you shut down the PC so you would need to be very sure that you had a way around that.

Having said that, it sounds from your experience as if it was pretty much trouble-free over a long period. I wonder, though, if you were shutting down the Id (or rather, Raspberry) every night and starting it up again the next day, in headless mode, and always getting a reliable Wi-Fi link?

To answer briefly: I shut down the Raspberry almost every night, and it worked perfectly 99% of the time once I got the configuration nailed down (read not changing). The pi as access point was reliable but required a lot of tinkering to make it reliable. The phone as the access point (via hotspot) was 100% rock solid and worked immediately, it's much easier. The phone mobile hotspot case is no different than a laptop or phone connecting to a wireless router. The "tricky" part is the access point, which since it's happening on your phone (which has a screen and interface) can be easily troubleshooted if something goes wrong. All the Id has to do is automatically connect to a known wireless network exposed to it, which is generally a fairly robust feature of a wireless chip (roaming is its thing).

My advice if you go this route is to to test everything thoroughly to ensure you're comfortable it will work. FWIW, I don't use my headless Pi for travel, I use it in my office (where there is no wi-fi and I'm not allowed to connect to their wired network with personal equipment). When I travel I take a laptop, an external hard drive, and a portable DAC, because I have to take a laptop with me anyway. YMMV.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 22, 2016, 02:26:51 am »

Quote from: mwillems on April 21, 2016, 09:44:59 pm

To answer briefly: I shut down the Raspberry almost every night, and it worked perfectly 99% of the time once I got the configuration nailed down (read not changing). The pi as access point was reliable but required a lot of tinkering to make it reliable. The phone as the access point (via hotspot) was 100% rock solid and worked immediately, it's much easier. The phone mobile hotspot case is no different than a laptop or phone connecting to a wireless router. The "tricky" part is the access point, which since it's happening on your phone (which has a screen and interface) can be easily troubleshooted if something goes wrong. All the Id has to do is automatically connect to a known wireless network exposed to it, which is generally a fairly robust feature of a wireless chip (roaming is its thing).

My advice if you go this route is to to test everything thoroughly to ensure you're comfortable it will work. FWIW, I don't use my headless Pi for travel, I use it in my office (where there is no wi-fi and I'm not allowed to connect to their wired network with personal equipment). When I travel I take a laptop, an external hard drive, and a portable DAC, because I have to take a laptop with me anyway. YMMV.

That all makes perfect sense to me. Better to use the iPhone to create the local WiFi hotspot and then, if you had Remote Desktop installed on the Id, the "only" thing that could go wrong is if the Id's WiFi doesn't fire up when the unit is switched on, which isn't a high risk.

I could experiment with this at home using an iPhone and a laptop, just to get a higher comfort level before taking the plunge.

The key to this has been the idea of using the iPhone to create the hotspot, which has definitely made the setup look more doable.

So let's see now - the portable setup would be:

Id (an Intel NUC with JRiver and Remote Desktop installed, plus entire lossless music library)
Power brick for Id
External sound card
Headphones

Also, an iPhone or iPad with JRemote to control the Id and provide a local Wi-Fi hotspot but to be fair, I'd be carrying these anyway.

I think this looks more appealing than carrying around a conventional laptop PC, which would be too large and heavy for what I want. A Microsoft Surface Pro 4 with 512GB of SSD might just about work but I prefer the JRemote interface on a small screen and it would be incredibly expensive.

It's a pity there's no way around the external sound card because the setup would be much neater without one. But I think it would be essential for a hi-fi quality sound so I'm looking at possibly the iFi Nano, which even does DSD:

http://www.amazon.com/Nano-iDSD-Battery-Powered-Portable-Decoder/dp/B00HI8WXVG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Any other suggestions welcome. The headphones could be Audeze LCD-2 on some trips.

mwillems · « **Reply #12 on:** April 22, 2016, 10:22:24 am »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on April 22, 2016, 02:26:51 am

I think this looks more appealing than carrying around a conventional laptop PC, which would be too large and heavy for what I want. A Microsoft Surface Pro 4 with 512GB of SSD might just about work but I prefer the JRemote interface on a small screen and it would be incredibly expensive.

I currently use an SP4 as my travel laptop. Not cheap, but is lovely to use. Theater view with the touch skin is quite nice on the surface FWIW. It isn't cheap though.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2016, 02:54:29 pm »

Quote from: mwillems on April 22, 2016, 10:22:24 am

I currently use an SP4 as my travel laptop. Not cheap, but is lovely to use. Theater view with the touch skin is quite nice on the surface FWIW. It isn't cheap though.

It is tempting and I keep wavering between the Id and the Surface Pro. Not having JRemote on the Surface Pro has been a negative for me - I think JRiver might be a bit fiddly on a small touch screen - but I've never tried theatre view so maybe I should give that a go before finally deciding.

There's no hurry because the latest generation of NUCs seem to be defective and everyone's waiting for Intel to come up with a fix. There's lots of chat about it on the web, as the Amazon reviewers point out:

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC6i5SYK-BOXNUC6I5SYK-Silver-Black/dp/B018NS910U/ref=sr_1_10?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1461354392&sr=1-10&keywords=nuc

But I think the Id uses the earlier generation and as far as I know there are no problems with those.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2016, 08:33:36 am »

I'm reopening this thread because I've hit a wall trying to get my Wi-Fi hotspot to work and I'm hoping someone, notably mwillems (!), can help.

Here's the setup. All my music files are loaded onto a (headless) Intel NUC PC with Windows 10 Pro, and so is MC21. Remote desktop function is switched on.

I want to control the Intel NUC and MC21 using my iPad 3 which is loaded with JRemote and Microsoft Remote Desktop Client.

Let's assume I'm in a location with no Wi-Fi and no internet.

I switch on Personal Hotspot in my iPad settings. Temporarily attaching a screen and keyboard to the Intel NUC, I see the iPad pop up as a wi-fi connection on the Intel NUC and I connect with it, entering the password. I have a strong, healthy connection and everything looks fine.

However, if I now try to connect to the Intel NUC using Remote Desktop, I can't. I very nearly can - Remote Desktop sees and recognises the Intel-NUC and it spends at least 10 seconds trying to establish the connection - but in the end it always gives up, with the usual error message "Unable to connect to remote PC. Please verify Remote Connection is..." etc etc.

If I try to connect with JRemote, it's the same deal. It makes no difference whether I use the access code or the IP address - it either rejects the connection as unacceptable or just times out.

Both connections work faultlessly if I simply use my home Wi-Fi network instead of Personal Hotspot so it has to be a problem with the way I'm trying to control the PC using Personal Hotspot.

I just can't figure this one out. Can anyone help?

Edit: I should have said, I have tried this setup both with iPad and iPhone and with two different PCs, always with the same result.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2016, 04:47:25 pm »

After spending nearly a day on this, most of it on Google searching unsuccessfully for an answer, I've finally figured it out.

I don't think you'll find this anywhere else on the web so I'm claiming this as a first!

How to access a PC from a personal hotspot on an iPad or iPhone without any connection at all to either a Wi-Fi network or the internet:

The key to this is understanding that when you're using the personal hotspot feature on an iPad/iPhone, the iPad/iPhone is actually working as a tiny wireless router and therefore it's also working as a tiny DHCP server, handing out IP addresses to any device it connects with.

So when it connects with your PC, its DHCP server automatically reconfigures your PC's wireless adapter with a whole lot of new settings - a new IP address, a new subnet mask, a new default gateway, a new DNS, the whole lot.

All of these settings are completely different from the ones normally found on your wireless adapter so if you try to connect using the normal settings or even just the PC's name or access key, you're doomed to failure. The one sure way of connecting is to discover what new IP address your iPhone/iPad has given to your wireless adapter and then use that to connect with Remote Desktop, JRemote etc.

That's it, really. I'm sure you all know how to find out the IP address of your wireless adapter but please allow me to point out the obvious which is that your personal hotspot must actually be connected and communicating with your PC at the moment when you do this or you'll be harvesting the wrong information.

As a guide, I believe the IP address you can expect to find will be 172.20.10.X, where the final X is a number between 2 and 15. That's because 172.20.10.1 is the default gateway and the poor little iPhone/iPad only has 15 numbers to give out.

Hope this helps someone. Another option, of course, is to use your PC as a hotspot and there's an interesting piece of software called Connectify that looks as if it would do this very well, but I haven't tried it yet.

mwillems · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2016, 06:06:31 pm »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on May 04, 2016, 04:47:25 pm

After spending nearly a day on this, most of it on Google searching unsuccessfully for an answer, I've finally figured it out.

I don't think you'll find this anywhere else on the web so I'm claiming this as a first!

How to access a PC from a personal hotspot on an iPad or iPhone without any connection at all to either a Wi-Fi network or the internet:

The key to this is understanding that when you're using the personal hotspot feature on an iPad/iPhone, the iPad/iPhone is actually working as a tiny wireless router and therefore it's also working as a tiny DHCP server, handing out IP addresses to any device it connects with.

So when it connects with your PC, its DHCP server automatically reconfigures your PC's wireless adapter with a whole lot of new settings - a new IP address, a new subnet mask, a new default gateway, a new DNS, the whole lot.

All of these settings are completely different from the ones normally found on your wireless adapter so if you try to connect using the normal settings or even just the PC's name or access key, you're doomed to failure. The one sure way of connecting is to discover what new IP address your iPhone/iPad has given to your wireless adapter and then use that to connect with Remote Desktop, JRemote etc.

That's it, really. I'm sure you all know how to find out the IP address of your wireless adapter but please allow me to point out the obvious which is that your personal hotspot must actually be connected and communicating with your PC at the moment when you do this or you'll be harvesting the wrong information.

As a guide, I believe the IP address you can expect to find will be 172.20.10.X, where the final X is a number between 2 and 15. That's because 172.20.10.1 is the default gateway and the poor little iPhone/iPad only has 15 numbers to give out.

Hope this helps someone. Another option, of course, is to use your PC as a hotspot and there's an interesting piece of software called Connectify that looks as if it would do this very well, but I haven't tried it yet.

The issue you ran into was what I was referring to in my post above when I said

Quote

The one bit of fiddling is that if you use your Id on lots of different wi-fi networks, your access key may not work correctly just at first, so you might need to specify the IP address of the Id/JRiver box in JRemote, but on my phone at least it shows you the IP of the connected devices on the same page where you activate the hotspot and its the same every time, so it was a one and done.

I can see how if you didn't realize that the phone's hotspot function was creating an ad hoc network/router that might not have rung any bells, and I apologize for not calling that hurdle out more clearly. Different devices will use different IP ranges, so it's important to actually check the IP on the devices in question. Glad you got it working

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2016, 02:22:12 am »

Yes, that's exactly right - I had tried all kinds of ways of entering static IPs and so on but the one crucial thing I'd failed to understand was that when the personal hotspot or ad hoc network was actually running, it created a whole NEW set of network settings and THOSE were the ones you had to use. I can't see anywhere on my iPad or iPhone where it reveals the settings being given out by the personal hotspot - maybe you're using an Android phone. I only stumbled upon it by accident when I was noodling around checking the status of the network adapter on my PC and saw some really weird settings, then suddenly realised they were there because I'd accidentally left the personal hotspot switched on and the personal hotspot was creating them.

For anyone else, there are many way to check the IP address (eg ipconfig /all in command prompt) but one easy way is to go to Control Panel, go to Network and Sharing Centre, go to Change Adapter Settings in little letters at the top left, right click on the adapter labelled Wi-Fi, click on Status, and click on Details.

Mwillems, thank you very much indeed for picking up on this (and for all your earlier help). If only I'd had the sense to wait overnight for a response, you'd have set me straight in a flash and I would have saved myself an enormous amount of time and trouble!

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2016, 08:29:35 am »

Mwillems, I thought I was all right now but in fact I'm still struggling. I can connect with Remote Desktop but I still have two problems connecting with JRemote:

1. Using this technique - no internet connection or Wi-Fi and just the iPad tethered to the PC via Personal Hotspot- I can't use an access key with JRemote - I can only use an IP address. That's OK because I now know how to find the IP address - but JRemote also demands a port number. The normal port number does not seem to work with this setup, so what port number am I supposed to put in this space?

2. The problem with using the IP address to log in is that every time you switch on Personal Hotspot on the iPad, its DHCP server gives the PC a slightly different address. I can't access the PC without a correct IP address so how do I get around the fact that it changes every time? I don't really want to set a weird static address on the PC because then it won't be possible to access it wirelessly on any other network.

mwillems · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2016, 09:17:07 am »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on May 05, 2016, 08:29:35 am

Mwillems, I thought I was all right now but in fact I'm still struggling. I can connect with Remote Desktop but I still have two problems connecting with JRemote:

1. Using this technique - no internet connection or Wi-Fi and just the iPad tethered to the PC via Personal Hotspot- I can't use an access key with JRemote - I can only use an IP address. That's OK because I now know how to find the IP address - but JRemote also demands a port number. The normal port number does not seem to work with this setup, so what port number am I supposed to put in this space?

The default port is 52199; if you haven't changed it and the ip address is correct that should work.

Quote

2. The problem with using the IP address to log in is that every time you switch on Personal Hotspot on the iPad, its DHCP server gives the PC a slightly different address. I can't access the PC without a correct IP address so how do I get around the fact that it changes every time? I don't really want to set a weird static address on the PC because then it won't be possible to access it wirelessly on any other network.

That is a bummer. I don't have any idevices so can't test ehre: my android phone both assigns the same IP address to the same device every time and displays what address it has assigned automatically on the page where I enable mobile hotspot (so if it were to change for some reason I could easily discover it from the phone and so I can see if an unauthorized device has connected). If the iphone neither assigns a consistent address nor tells you what ip it has assigned you're in a bit of a bind unfortunately. Perhaps there's an app or utility for the iphone that will provide this info? The phone obvously "knows" what address it has assigned, so it should be discoverable. If there's no way to access the information that's truly unfortunate.

EDIT:

Looks like there are some apps that might do it, see e.g. a thread on apple's forums requesting this exact feature with suggested workarounds: https://discussions.apple.com/message/27149028#27149028

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2016, 12:26:54 pm »

OK, one step at a time. First, the port.

I discovered that, although the wired adapter was working fine, in fact the wireless adapter wasn't giving me access even with my conventional Wi-Fi network. I then discovered to my surprise that it was Windows Firewall preventing a connection, even though it was permitting connections through the Ethernet adapter. I'd always assumed the firewall was for the whole computer but is there a separate firewall for wired and wireless?

So anyway, I cleared the firewall for the wireless adapter and then I found I could make connections with JRemote through my conventional Wi-Fi network. But I still can't connect using the Personal Hotspot! Is it possible there's ANOTHER firewall for each adapter setting? The strange thing is, I can get through with Remote Desktop so it's not the connection itself.

Listener · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2016, 12:42:45 pm »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on April 21, 2016, 09:02:23 am

Many thanks for the helpful reply, which was very interesting. I didn't realise you could get such tiny routers.

I think I should have emphasised that I'm thinking of a situation where there's absolutely no internet connection of any kind, nor any Wi-Fi access - for example, visiting an elderly relative for the weekend who has never owned a computer and has no internet connection to their home, or visiting a remote holiday cottage where there's no internet or Wi-Fi access. I'm not sure from reading the product description whether that little Asus device would work in that situation - it seems to me that it's aimed at connecting multiple devices to a single internet connection, not connecting multiple Wi-Fi devices to each other. I wonder if it would work if it had no internet connection?

Since posting I also learned that it was possible to use your PC into a local wireless hotspot, using its internal Wi-Fi card to communicate with nearby devices. I tried it on one PC and it did work but the signal was weak and unreliable. That may have been a problem with the network card on that PC so I'm going to try it with another.

Meanwhile, however, another big problem that's occurred to me is that the JRiver Id has neither screen nor keyboard and therefore once you're out on the road you have no way of accessing it, so if the slightest thing went wrong you'd be stuck. I'm beginning to think that what I'd hoped would be a one-box solution might in fact involve carrying around a ton of stuff - screen, keyboard, router, iPad, the Id itself, its power brick, an external DAC and headphone amp and a pair of headphones!

Why don't you use a laptop with adequate disk space for your music? You get keyboard, screen and power brick. You would not need a router.

Install MC on the laptop and play your music from it using the audio output connector to connect to your headphones or a stereo system. If you want better sound, the Audioquest Dragonfly Black for $ 100 is very small and plugs into a USB port on the laptop. The Dragonfly Red is a step up for $ 200.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2016, 12:53:54 pm »

Quote from: Listener on May 05, 2016, 12:42:45 pm

Why don't you use a laptop with adequate disk space for your music? You get keyboard, screen and power brick. You would not need a router.

Install MC on the laptop and play your music from it using the audio output connector to connect to your headphones or a stereo system. If you want better sound, the Audioquest Dragonfly Black for $ 100 is very small and plugs into a USB port on the laptop. The Dragonfly Red is a step up for $ 200.

Because that would be giving up!

Seriously, it's almost the solution but not quite, or at least, not for me. Small laptops are painfully slow and don't have much storage, while the more powerful ones are too large and heavy. Plus, you can't use JRemote on them - you would have to use MC itself which is OK but not all that user friendly on a small screen. The Microsoft Surface Pro solves some of these problems but not all of them and creates a new problem all of its own - it's incredibly expensive for one with enough storage.

I think I will be very happy with my Intel NUC setup - if I can just get it working!

Listener · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2016, 01:24:56 pm »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on May 05, 2016, 12:53:54 pm

Because that would be giving up!

Seriously, it's almost the solution but not quite, or at least, not for me. Small laptops are painfully slow and don't have much storage, while the more powerful ones are too large and heavy. Plus, you can't use JRemote on them - you would have to use MC itself which is OK but not all that user friendly on a small screen. The Microsoft Surface Pro solves some of these problems but not all of them and creates a new problem all of its own - it's incredibly expensive for one with enough storage.

I think I will be very happy with my Intel NUC setup - if I can just get it working!

You can get a laptop with the same processor that is in the NUC or with a considerably more powerful processor. Your comment seems to be about netbook laptops of years past.

You said nothing about the amount of storage space you will need. No problem getting a laptop with 500GB or even 1 TB these days.

Small screen? I have used MC on a 13.3" laptop for years and find the UI works well.

You can use JRemote with a laptop in exactly the same way you use it with an Id. You'l have the same need for a WiFi network.

mwillems · « **Reply #24 on:** May 05, 2016, 01:51:42 pm »

Quote from: richard-ec2 on May 05, 2016, 12:26:54 pm

OK, one step at a time. First, the port.

I discovered that, although the wired adapter was working fine, in fact the wireless adapter wasn't giving me access even with my conventional Wi-Fi network. I then discovered to my surprise that it was Windows Firewall preventing a connection, even though it was permitting connections through the Ethernet adapter. I'd always assumed the firewall was for the whole computer but is there a separate firewall for wired and wireless?

So anyway, I cleared the firewall for the wireless adapter and then I found I could make connections with JRemote through my conventional Wi-Fi network. But I still can't connect using the Personal Hotspot! Is it possible there's ANOTHER firewall for each adapter setting? The strange thing is, I can get through with Remote Desktop so it's not the connection itself.

Windows maintains separate firewall settings for public and private wi-fi access points as I recall, and may maintain separate ones for each interface. It's likely that the hotspot is being recognized as a "public" wi-fi point which is causing windows to use the other firewall options. I would make sure that JRiver is exempt from all firewall settings in windows using the guide on firewall issues in the wiki. I would additionally test it while connected to the hotspot.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 05, 2016, 02:02:14 pm »

Quote from: Listener on May 05, 2016, 01:24:56 pm

You can get a laptop with the same processor that is in the NUC or with a considerably more powerful processor. Your comment seems to be about netbook laptops of years past.

You said nothing about the amount of storage space you will need. No problem getting a laptop with 500GB or even 1 TB these days.

Small screen? I have used MC on a 13.3" laptop for years and find the UI works well.

You can use JRemote with a laptop in exactly the same way you use it with an Id. You'l have the same need for a WiFi network.

Sure - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with laptops at all, just that I couldn't personally find one that suited my own personal preferences quite as well as the NUC. I would have been happy to consider one if it was as small as a netbook with at least 500GB or preferably 1TB of storage and a processor of i5 or better with plenty of RAM, but I looked for quite a while and the only thing I could find was the Surface Pro which was too expensive (for 500GB). And if I wanted to use JRemote, I'd have to carry around my iPad as well!

The thing with my setup is, if I'm already carrying around my iPad anyway, the only extra thing I have to carry is the tiny NUC, so it works quite well for me.

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 05, 2016, 02:12:34 pm »

Quote from: mwillems on May 05, 2016, 01:51:42 pm

Windows maintains separate firewall settings for public and private wi-fi access points as I recall, and may maintain separate ones for each interface. It's likely that the hotspot is being recognized as a "public" wi-fi point which is causing windows to use the other firewall options. I would make sure that JRiver is exempt from all firewall settings in windows using the guide on firewall issues in the wiki. I would additionally test it while connected to the hotspot.

Many thanks, mwillems. I tried turning off Windows Firewall altogether but still couldn't get through. Finally, though, I made a connection - by filling in my username and password below the IP address and port number in JRemote. I don't why this is necessary because I've never previously needed to do it in any context but anyway, that seems to be the answer and it turns out to be nothing to do with ports after all.

So that's the "port" problem solved - which was actually a firewall problem and then a password problem.

Next, the static IP. I think I'm going to leave this for a while to see if the iPad Personal Hotspot really is handing out different IP addresses every time. Today's addresses all seem to have been the same so I'm hoping I'm mistaken in thinking they're different from yesterday's. So I'll try using it for a while and see what happens.

I do at last have a working system now so thanks very much once again for all your help. No doubt I'll be back for more!

richard-ec2 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 18, 2016, 01:43:07 pm »

I said I'd try using it for a while to see what happens and I'm just posting this update to say it's remarkably stable and working very successfully. The IP address has turned out not to be a problem after all. The network adapter remembers the last IP address it was given by the iPad Personal Hotspot and every time I switch on the setup, the network adapter asks for - and gets - the same IP address from the Personal Hotspot that it received every previous time. So it's never a problem connecting with JRemote.

I think the only thing that might spoil this would be if I used the network adapter with a different network, because then it would receive a new IP address from the new network and might forget the one it received from the Personal Hotspot. But the worst that could happen in that case would be that, next time I wanted to connect to the Intel NUC using Personal Hotspot, I'd have to connect using Remote Desktop to find out what new IP address it was getting from Personal Hotspot. That wouldn't be a problem because Remote Desktop seems able to connect using the computer's name and doesn't require an IP address.

I haven't taken it out on the road yet but I now have a high level of confidence in the setup and feel it should work very well. I'm planning to make it a dual purpose device - when at home it will sit in my hi-fi rack working as a music server and renderer, and when I'm going out on the road I'll just unplug it and put it in my pocket and have my entire lossless music library with me wherever I go.

mwillems · « **Reply #28 on:** May 18, 2016, 01:51:54 pm »

Great news! Glad it's working.

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