Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[altsouza]

Hello,

I have a subset of my lib, about 500 songs of mp3 material I use for my portable mp3 player.
I used the conversion process with volume leveling only option to normalize the volume of the songs (definitive conversion).
Sometimes I have to re-do the conversion process as i add new songs.
I ask if doing it many times will degrade the sound quality of the songs.
I did no find another way to volume leveling of the songs without using the conversion+dsp process.
Any help is welcome.
Thanks
Antonio

[ferday]

Are you converting on the fly into the device?

Or are you converting from one type (flac) to another (MP3)?

[altsouza]

I am converting from mp3 to mp3, replacing the original files.
I am not sure, but there are no "volume leveling" stand alone process.
I only get it using convert format, and choosing dsp volume leveling only.
I think i am not actualy converting the file, but only normalizing it.
I just want to be sure!
Thanks

[altsouza]

I am not converting on the fly, i am converting to my computer's hd, and syncing to the device

[ferday]

oh snap.  that's not good at all

you can't convert mp3 to mp3 without loss

you should be using the 'convert on the fly' through the handheld sync, it just converts the tracks on the fly to your device without saving anything and leaving the originals intact

the actual volume levelling doesn't have any loss (it just generates a value to use) but converting lossy to lossy is really bad

[RoderickGI]

I am converting from mp3 to mp3, replacing the original files.

As Ferday says, I think that is very bad. It is possible that what you have done is just changing the volume bits in the files, but as you have used the Convert Format tool, it has probably re-encoded the whole file.

I am not sure, but there are no "volume leveling" stand alone process.
I only get it using convert format, and choosing dsp volume leveling only.

There is a "Apply Volume Leveling" [sic] option in the Handheld Device audio conversion options. I don't know what version that was implemented in, but I am using MC21.0.75. You should be using that option, and when you do, my understanding is that the volume levelling information that is stored as tags in the MC library is actually applied to the files, which are then sent to the handheld device. This is done so that devices that can't use the volume levelling information to adjust volume still get the benefit of volume levelling.

You can then choose to sync directly to your iPod, or sync to a directory on your hard drive then sync that directory later to your iPad using whatever software you want to use. For example I used to sync to a directory, then drag and drop the contents of the directory into iTunes, and sync that with my iPhone.

There is also an menu option under Files>Export to iTunes & iPhone, which does what it sounds like, but I don't think that will handle the volume levelling, as it doesn't use the handheld options.

Read this post and the information it links to: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97847.0

[altsouza]

Thank you all,

I tried to Sync to HDD folder (with dsp volume level) but I could not.
There are no options to do this.
Please, let me know

Thanks

Antonio

[altsouza]

Hi,

I got how to sync to HHD Folder (you create folder  like a virtual device). I marked DSP (Volume leveling), but the end result was NO VOLUME LEVELING.
The newly added songs are much louder than the rest!!

I only got it when I actualy convert the file!!!!

Let me know

Antonio

[altsouza]

Forgot to mention that I need Volume Leveling to use with my TomTom Sports Watch, not with a Apple Device

[RoderickGI]

I may have to try a specific test later, because I thought this was working, and I use it sometimes. Can't do it now though.

[altsouza]

Hi Roderrick,
Have you tested???

I also tested a Apple Device I use in my Car (via USB connection), and got the same results , No volume leveling!!

Thanks

Antonio

[RoderickGI]

Sorry, this one slipped my mind.

I'll put this on the list of things to do, but can't promise it will be soon. We'll see.

[altsouza]

Hi,
I found that apple devices have the soundcheck option i did not know exists.
Sorry, I consider myself a digital music power user, but i did not know that.
It partialy solved my problem, for apple devices at least. But the problem continuos for my tom tom runner watches (rudimentary music player).
Thanks
Antonio


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[MusicBringer]

May I jump in here please.
I have the same requirement.
I have many JRiver Analysed Flac Files [Analyse Audio] that have been Volume Levelled.
How do I transfer these flacs complete with their Volume Levelling Information to a MicroSD Card that is used in a Music Player Device - perhaps a phone, perhaps a tablet, or a DAP.
thanks,

[Vocalpoint]

I have many JRiver Analysed Flac Files [Analyse Audio] that have been Volume Levelled. How do I transfer these flacs complete with their Volume Levelling Information to a MicroSD Card that is used in a Music Player Device - perhaps a phone, perhaps a tablet, or a DAP.

Just a note that "analyze audio" does not change any physical FLAC file - nor does it "level" it in anyway. It simply writes volume tag info - that I believe - ONLY MC can use.

So transferring FLACs "complete with volume info from MC" to any other player - will have zero effect whatsoever.

The only "device" that can use MC "levelled" material is something like the iPod that actually gets "Soundcheck" data written when converting a file from MC.

I know that works since I convert all my MP3s from MC to my iPod and they are all good volume wise.

VP

[blgentry]

Any player that supports Replay Gain will read the Replay Gain tags from JRiver analyzed files.

I'm currently using an Android device as a portable with FLAC files transferred from my main library to a micro SD card.  I'm using the paid version of Rocket Music Player which includes Replay Gain support and it seems to work quite well. 

Brian.

[Vocalpoint]

Any player that supports Replay Gain will read the Replay Gain tags from JRiver analyzed files. I'm currently using an Android device as a portable with FLAC files transferred from my main library to a micro SD card.  I'm using the paid version of Rocket Music Player which includes Replay Gain support and it seems to work quite well.  Brian.

FLAC has replaygain? Wow. Learn something everyday. I had thought RG was only baked into MP3 only....

VP

[MusicBringer]

I'm currently using an Android device as a portable with FLAC files transferred from my main library to a micro SD card.
Brian.

Hello Brian, I should be grateful if you would tell me your method.
I have a Fiio X3ii and a new 128GB micro SD card.
In my library I have earmarked a couple of thousand tracks that I wish to put on the micro SD card.
thanks,

altsouza, thanks for starting this 

[blgentry]

^ It's pretty basic.  I just put the SD card in an SD card reader and attach it to my computer.  It shows up as a drive.  Then I build a handheld sync definition that points to that drive.  In the sync definition, I select one or more playlists that contain the files I want to sync to the card.

Then, after it checks the card, I press sync and it copies all of the music files and the playlists to the card.

I have a FiiO X1 that I'm no longer using.  I found a few things I had to compensate for when I was using it.  I'm not sure if they are the same on the X3, but here they are (from memory):

1.  Playlists *must* be in the root of the file system.  They can not be in a directory.  So you have to change the Playlists folder in your handheld sync definition to be the root folder ( \ ).
2.  The FiiO can't read some characters in file names.  IIRC umlats and other special characters can't be read.  So it would skip all of my Motley Crue files because of the special characters in the O and U in their name.  Motley Crue spells their name with foreign characters, even though they are a US old school metal band.  So I had to rename some of my files so the FiiO could find them.
3.  Same thing as above, but inside of the playlist files.  This should be handled automatically:  When you rename a file in MC, the playlist will follow.
4.  A small amount of my embedded cover art was not recognized by the FiiO.  I believe I tracked this down to the cover art being PNG format.  I replaced the few I found with JPGs and it all worked.

Good luck on your sync.  You might want to start a new thread on this if you have any questions or trouble.

Brian.

[altsouza]

Hello,

Thank you people.
For my car's ipod, it seems to be ok. Soundcheck works for 95% of the songs.
For my tom tom runner watch, I think I would have to use the mpgain software, to normalize all the tracks.
Unfortunely mpgain change the files (modify them).
I don't think tom tom reads replaygain info.

Thanks

Antonio



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[RoderickGI]

I may have to try a specific test later, because I thought this was working, and I use it sometimes. Can't do it now though.

Okay, I did a few quick (well, not so quick in the end) tests and the answer is pretty straight forward. I think you have seen what will happen already Altsouza.

Assumptions:
1. Transferring audio files to a Handheld device or a HDD folder for use on a Handheld device.
2. The Handheld device doesn't use any of the Volume Leveling tags to control volume. So the R128 and RG Volume Leveling tags are ignored.
3. You want to normalize all the tracks, which means that the volume levels in the tracks must be changed as tags aren't honoured, which means that the files have to be converted on the fly when writing to the Handheld device or HDD folder.


I always believed, because I had read it in the forum at some time, that any DSP effects defined in the Handheld sync process were applied to the tracks as they were transfered over to the handheld device. What I hadn't twigged to was that you had to force a conversion to happen to ensure the DSP effects were applied. If there is no other reason to convert the audio tracks, then having DSP effects defined doesn't seem to be enough to trigger a conversion of the audio file and apply the volume adjustment defined in the "Volume Level (R128)" tag.

However, if you specifiy the Handheld Option "Conversion>Audio>Mode" as "Specified Output Format", then a conversion will take place every time, and the DSP effects will be applied to the audio file.

To test I edited the "Volume Level (R128)" tag to several values, synced a couple of files to the Handheld, then played the original and synced/converted file in Windows Media Player independently on MC. My understanding is that Windows Media Player doesn't support either EBU R128 or Replay Gain, so it should play the audio file volume as it is from the audio file.

At -50 LU (Loudness Units) the converted tracks were silent in Windows Media Player. I played them in MC as well, just to see how they went, and MC skipped over the whole tracks because I had "Do not play silence" set in my Options.

At -20 LU the converted tracks were very quiet, noticably quieter than the original tracks. MC played then quietly as well.

When I checked the tags in the converted tracks I noticed that the "Volume Level (R128)" tag had been deleted in each. So MC (more correctly our smart developers) is smart enough to apply the Volume Leveling DSP to the audio files, and then clear the "Volume Level (R128)" tag so that if a player can use that tag, the effect doesn't get applied twice.

The attached image shows the important elements of what I tested. Note that I did not turn on Adaptive Volume as that tends to hide the effect of Volume Leveling by a large amount, or at least should try to. I had to assume that if the Volume Leveling DSP is applied to the audio file, then any other DSP would also be aplied.

So Volume Leveling is being applied to Handheld Synchronisation, as long as a file conversion is required or forced. I have to assume that the rules around Volume Leveling over a Playlist are respected during a Handheld sync, since the Handheld sync uses Playlists to select files.

Does that make sense Altsouza? Will this do what you want for your Tom Tom player? Try it and see.

[MusicBringer]

This is most interesting. I am keen to hear what Altsouza makes of it.

RoderickGI, tell me what happens to music files - Flacs - that have been R128 Volume Leveled by MC and are copied - drag and drop - to a Micro SD Card that is then used in a DAP. Does the Volume Level (R128) tag information go with it.
I suspect you are going to say no, the Volume Level (R128) info stays in the MC library database.

I don't want my Flacs "converted by MC" before they reach the Micro SD Card. Surely any conversion will impact music quality.
To control volume, my DAP is ReplayGain friendly, so could read the R128 information, I guess?
thanks,

[blgentry]

I don't want my Flacs "converted by MC" before they reach the Micro SD Card. Surely any conversion will impact music quality.
To control volume, my DAP is ReplayGain friendly, so could read the R128 information, I guess?

I do this with my player.  The replaygain tags are included inside the file, so they go with the copied file.  My player reads the replaygain tags and volume levels the songs appropriately.  There's nothing extra to do at all.  Other than turning on replaygain support in your player. 

Brian.

[MusicBringer]

The replaygain tags are included inside the file, so they go with the copied file. 

So the MC Volume Level (R128) info is in the replaygain tag, and included inside the file?
Thanks for your help.

And I want to hear how Antonio is getting on...

[blgentry]

So the MC Volume Level (R128) info is in the replaygain tag, and included inside the file?

It's not quite that simple, but close.  Here's what I know:

A.  When MC runs volume analysis, it computes both the R128 values and the "regular" replaygain based values.  All of these get written into MC's database.  All marked tags get written to the media files too, if the media files support those tags.
B.  MC's tags get "marked" individually, in MC's "manage library fields" tool, to be written to files.  It's a check box, per field.  Many of the volume level tags are marked to be written to media files, including Replay Gain
C.  I'm not aware of which players might read an R128 volume level tag.  I wouldn't think that any of them would be compatible with the way that MC writes those tags, as it's not exactly standardized.
D.  But the Replay Gain tag that MC writes, should be usable by many, many different players.  The player I'm using seems to read this tag, because it's definitely doing volume leveling in a way that sounds "right".

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

RoderickGI, tell me what happens to music files - Flacs - that have been R128 Volume Leveled by MC and are copied - drag and drop - to a Micro SD Card that is then used in a DAP. Does the Volume Level (R128) tag information go with it.
I suspect you are going to say no, the Volume Level (R128) info stays in the MC library database.

If you drag and drop your audio files from MC to an SD Card... They will be copied to the SD card. That is all.

All your tags will still be there, as that is just a file copy. That is, all your tags that have been saved to the audio file will be there, as Brian explained.

I don't want my Flacs "converted by MC" before they reach the Micro SD Card. Surely any conversion will impact music quality.
To control volume, my DAP is ReplayGain friendly, so could read the R128 information, I guess?

I described the Handheld Sync Options that allow conversion while audio files are transferred to a handheld device. They are Options. You don't have to turn them on. I had to force the conversion using the Option "Conversion>Audio>Mode" as "Specified Output Format". So I was telling MC it had to use the output format I specified. In this case, to include the DSP processing. The other options are;
"Specified Output Format only when necessary" and "Specified Output Format only when necessary (including high bitrates)". If you specified one of these, and then tried to sync a 6 channel audio file to a handheld device that only supports stereo, I suspect MC would convert the file to stereo during the transfer. I haven't tested that bit of functionality.

The whole point of the conversion options in Handheld Sync is to make sure that the files transferred are compatible with the target device. It would be no good transferring your pristine 6 channel 192/24 files to a device that only supports stereo 44.1/16 audio, would it? Yes, of course any conversion will have some impact on music quality. That is to be expected. But your original files remain untouched when you sync to a handheld device, at the source. You have complete control over whether files are converted or not.

[altsouza]

I will make some tests, and get back next week.
Thanks to all