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[AudioBear]

JRiver MC and Tidal, trying to resuscitate this horse. Rally time!
« on: Today at 12:30:21 pm »
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Link to Tidal request form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1B6eZwN_7L1hcoKjJ73kvs9ApvLiJ7Wld2dQ2Y3xIH2I/viewform?c=0&w=1&fbzx=3179985177610552928

The message I posted:

Hello Tidal Dev Team!

I would like to see, as would many others, an integration with JRiver Medai Center.  I know the developers at JRiver have a way to integrate with Tidal currently but hit a bump in the road.  I believe this bump could be smoothed over with a little massaging on both ends.

Contact:Jim Hillegass;  jimh at jriver

Thank You
Tidal and JRiver MC advocate, Shane

[imugli]

I believe the "bump" was caused by Tidal wanting pretty much veto control over the UI experience.

Don't see this happening any time soon...

[JimH]

Here's why we're not doing more work on streaming soon:

Why Streaming Struggles

Maybe it will be better in the future.

[daveg]

I am a little perplexed as to why these streaming services will not allow integration into other programs.

Perhaps I have no business sense, but getting more eyes on your product is a good thing...no? Does it matter how it is being accessed, as long as they are getting paid. I use spotify, and will continue to...but if Tidal was incorporated into JR, I for sure would give it a try, but otherwise, have no interest.

[Matt]

For whatever it's worth, we had made a really nice first step to integration with Tidal.

Then they said "No way" and told us that wasn't allowed.

It confused me.

[Arindelle]

For whatever it's worth, we had made a really nice first step to integration with Tidal.

Then they said "No way" and told us that wasn't allowed.

It confused me.

hmm now I'm really curious what bothered them!.  I suppose you can't elaborate could you?  I almost thought that Dr. Who might have been devlopped for Tidal use. Being able to play a cloud based file, but tagged like a local file in one's library would be pretty seductive for people who don't subscribe to these types of services.

Off-topic but more related to Jim's link, I had a chat with someone connected to Qobuz awhile back (similar to  Tidal) .. seems like they make more revenues by charging third parties to integrate their API, than they do subscriptions.

[ssands]

The music business is failing to understand the power of streaming, as witnessed by their use of exclusive releases, that is, releasing material on one service only. The immediate reaction to that was a huge spike in piracy. People, rightfully, don't want to pay for multiple streaming services just so they can listen a particular artist. Recently, Kanye West released his new album on Tidal only, with a grand announcement that it would only be on Tidal. It was massively pirated. So, quickly, it was released on other services. It was a dumb move from the beginning, and shows that the business (and some artists) just don't get it.

There will be consolidation in the industry and it's not really clear how the services will differentiate themselves. Audio quality will converge as bandwidth issues continue to resolve.

But I don't know anyone that wants to pay for multiple streaming services, unless there is a real distinction - and I don't know what that is (but maybe Daniel Ek does!).

Anyway, I've collected music for 40 years and really like knowing that it is my music and won't be affected by a service going out of business, an artist pulling their catalog from the service, or an internet outage, or some DRM scheme being broken. It's a nice way to check out new music and find artists I didn't know about (e.g., spotify playlists). But I can still play LPs I bought 40 years ago, along with DATs, CDs, and digital downloads.

[AndyU]

I am really enjoying my Qobuz subscription, it is incredibly good value for money, and the choice of music is superb. It is particularly good if, like me, you like to listen to classical music. I reckon I'm listening to it at least as much as I am using MC. It does seem to be integrated with some other media players but I'm sure the guys at JRiver could do a better job, especially if they took the integration through to JRemote. The one big doubt in my mind though is the issue of audible watermarking.

[BillT]

I am really enjoying my Qobuz subscription, it is incredibly good value for money, and the choice of music is superb. It is particularly good if, like me, you like to listen to classical music.

As a classical music listener I tried Qobuz last year and found it decidedly lacking. Specifically the search facility was virtually useless, especially if you wanted to hear a particular performance. The classical catalogue didn't seem particularly comprehensive either, although, no doubt, it's a lot better than the likes of Spotify.

Maybe it's improved since then, but with nearly 50 years worth of acquiring physical recordings I don't need a streaming source!

Can't say that £20 a month for "CD quality" streaming strikes me as very good value for money either; probably OK if you stream constantly as background music, but that's not the way I listen.

[rec head]

I think that streaming companies fear that once the content is on a PC it is easy to copy/pirate. It is stupid because if something isn't easy for everyone to get it will be pirated immediately regardless of how it is distributed.

I stopped trying to stream video on my HTPC a while ago because the quality of the stream is much worse than even a Chromecast.

[AndyU]

As a classical music listener I tried Qobuz last year and found it decidedly lacking. Specifically the search facility was virtually useless, especially if you wanted to hear a particular performance. The classical catalogue didn't seem particularly comprehensive either, although, no doubt, it's a lot better than the likes of Spotify.

Maybe it's improved since then, but with nearly 50 years worth of acquiring physical recordings I don't need a streaming source!

Can't say that £20 a month for "CD quality" streaming strikes me as very good value for money either; probably OK if you stream constantly as background music, but that's not the way I listen.

Fwiw I listen to music the same way as I listen at a concert; to the exclusion of all else, usually with my eyes, shut. £20 a month is a small amount to pay for the choice and quality of the Qobuz catalogue; the search could be better for sure, but it's an unhelpful exaggeration to say it's virtually useless. I manage to find plenty of stuff with trying too hard. Searching Amazon or any vendor of CDs is no better. And the new releases alone, which are presented well, not to mention nicely integrated with Gramophone magazine,  are worth the subscription. I'm still months behind listening to what were new releases, which would have cost me £100s to buy! I'm also finding that streaming/Qobuz is changing my listening habits: listening to a lot of new material and new performances is more like going to concerts - instead of falling back onto the comfort blanket of familiar performances I get to experience  the excitement and special intensity of listening to something for the first time. Background music it most definitely is not.

[Mike48]

As a classical music listener I tried Qobuz last year and found it decidedly lacking. Specifically the search facility was virtually useless, especially if you wanted to hear a particular performance. The classical catalogue didn't seem particularly comprehensive either, although, no doubt, it's a lot better than the likes of Spotify.

Yes, Tidal has similar problems for classical music. The cataloging is abysmal, with even the composer of a piece not possible to find out in a considerable fraction of cases. Searching is hit or miss, since conductor, composer, etc., are not cataloged.

It is also terrible for jazz, as you can't find out who the sidemen are on any given album or track.

A library never touched by a librarian!

If the cataloging were good, I think I'd pay the $20 a month, just to try new (to me) music I might not want to hear often.

[Mike48]

For whatever it's worth, we had made a really nice first step to integration with Tidal.

Then they said "No way" and told us that wasn't allowed.

It confused me.

It would confuse me, too. Their own software is horrible, especially if you're not interested in the newest pop releases. How lovely it would be to have their library with a decent front end.

[JimH]

I don't want to say anything negative about Tidal, but few of the streaming services have a bright future long term.  Only the deep pocket companies like Apple and Google will be likely to sustain their offerings.

If they wanted to offer to fund our development, we'd consider it.  As it is, we would need to spend a lot of time and money to build something that would primarily benefit the streaming service.

We've done such work many times in the past.  Very few of those went anywhere.

I'm sorry not to be able to offer a more optimistic outlook, but we need to be very careful about where we spend our development resources.

[ssands]

Only the deep pocket companies like Apple and Google will be likely to sustain their offerings.

Given today's news about Amazon offering a separate video service, it wouldn't surprise me if, in the near future, they also start an audio streaming service. They already have a huge library, and they have the computing power and know-how. They do need a good front-end though.

[AudioBear]

just an FYI,  I have a subscription to Thirdman Records Vault service which is Jack White's label.  Due to Whites involvement with Tidal members of his vault service can get a premium Tidal subscription for $5/month.

[glynor]

I don't want to say anything negative about Tidal, but

I will. Tidal is not likely to be long for this world.

Please Note: Despite my admin status here on the forum, I do not work for and do not speak for JRiver.

[mojave]

Tidal on Saturday Night Live

[JimH]

Tidal on Saturday Night Live

Wonderful!