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[Tom Russell]

Tom here.

I posted about moving my misnamed files a couple of weeks ago. I want to thank JimH and blgentry for their help. I decided to use their advise as I could but I also decided it was my problem of my own making and I would work through it as far as I could go. I'm there now, one step away from getting all of this stuff into a proper form.

I am to the point where I have every album complete, properly tagged, and with cover art in JRiver. In addition to each complete album, there are a bunch of extra song files under each album. All of the files are in .wav format. What I think I want to do is mark all of the extra song files and move them to a fresh, empty folder on an external hard drive, to be looked at once more prior to ultimately deleting all duplicates. Then, I want to mark all of the JRiver library and copy the library to  A fresh Windows folder to make an edited proper back-up. When I think about actually doing this, I can't see what the relationship between JRiver and my Windows file structure is. Obviously, editing in JRiver doesn't change anything about the Windows files. I realize that the reason the files imported into JRiver were in such a mess was the confusing (to the computer and JRiver) naming I did but I don't understand why JRiver imported the files in many different ways. It's clear that JRiver didn't see the files as I, or Windows, see them. This is my confusion. I can't see how I can mark files - songs - that are shown in JRiver and move them to folders shown in Windows Explorer. They seem totally separate entities to me.

I have seen a move and copy tool but I don't understand exactly what it wants me to do. I know their are all sorts of tools that are, no doubt, very useful but I don't really understand any of the tools I have opened. I particularly don't understand the expression language. I have seen several examples of expression language and I have no idea where the language used comes from. Perhaps at some point I will learn more about using these tools but for the present they don't help me. For the time being, hopefully there is an easy way to move these files .

Thanks for all

Tom

[JimH]

The best way to learn about a tool is to try it on a few files.   Rename, Move, Copy shows you the before and after if you hover your mouse over an entry.  The wiki has a topic on this.  Try searching for "Library Tools".

MC doesn't move files around unless you tell it to.

[blgentry]

I'm there now, one step away from getting all of this stuff into a proper form.

Congratulations!

I am to the point where I have every album complete, properly tagged, and with cover art in JRiver. In addition to each complete album, there are a bunch of extra song files under each album.

It would be really helpful if we could see what you are describing.  Post a screen shot or two showing what you're describing here.  I'd like to see columns showing Album, Artist, Name, and maybe file name.  That should help us figure out what's going on.

I'll write more about your other questions and ideas tomorrow.

Brian.

[blgentry]

Then, I want to mark all of the JRiver library and copy the library to  A fresh Windows folder to make an edited proper back-up.

That's not a bad idea.  We can go over the Rename, Move, and Copy tool a bit.  That's what it's designed to do.  It's a big tool that does a lot of things, so it can be sort of strange at first and seem like it has too many options.  But with a little guidance, you'll understand it in no time.

When I think about actually doing this, I can't see what the relationship between JRiver and my Windows file structure is. Obviously, editing in JRiver doesn't change anything about the Windows files. I realize that the reason the files imported into JRiver were in such a mess was the confusing (to the computer and JRiver) naming I did but I don't understand why JRiver imported the files in many different ways.

The big thing with your collection is that your files are all WAV format. Most file formats like FLAC, MP3, AAC, and others have tags *inside* the files which identify Artist, Album, Song Name, Track #, etc.  We call this "metadata" or metadata tags.  WAVs didn't originally have any support at all for metadata tagging.  Some has been added, but it's hacky:  It's not standardized and it's not super portable from one media program to another.

So with WAV files, you kind of have to try to infer the metadata (album, artist, etc) from the filename and/or directory names.  This makes it kind of hard.  This is why MC didn't import your files in a very logical manner.  I had originally suggested that you use the Fill Properties From Filename tool and tell MC what parts of the file name contained which fields (album, artist, etc).  I hope you were able to do that for at least some of the files to make your job easier.

The good news about all of this is that you are nearly done.  You actually don't need to move files around if you don't want to.  MC's database now knows about all of your files and that won't change.  MC makes library backups automatically, which you could use to recover from a disaster.

If you want to make your file and directory naming very standardized, regular, and consistent, we can definitely use the Rename, Move, and Copy files tool to put everything into a nice consistent directory structure with file names exactly as you want them.

I'd say let's get your mystery files sorted out first.  Then, once those are dealt with, if you want to move all of your "good" files around, we can definitely help you do that.

Brian.

[Tom Russell]

Brian

The attachment I used was too large and the forum it wouldn't send it. It sent the post but not the attachment.

The post  isn't shown where I expected it to be. I thought it would follow your reply in a thread. That would make for an easier read. Hopefully, this image will be adjacent to the post that refers to it.

Anyway, here is a smaller file to attach. I hope it has sufficient resolution for an easy read.

Tom

[blgentry]

Great screen shot.  This makes it very easy to see what's going on.  In this case, with the Chris Whitley album, you have 3 copies of every file:

1. The one you added meta data for, which is in:  R:\audio files 169GB\Pauls CDs\
2.  Another copy in:  R:\EAC files 242GB\EAC new rips 2014\
3.  Another copy in:  R:\EAC files 242GB\new EAC 07-2014 97.8GB\

I'm guessing you have those 3 copies for most or all of the duplicates, but I have no way of knowing.

You might want to do some spot checking and see.  Once you figure out where the duplicates are, then you can decide which ones to keep.  If they are all the same, then it's easy.  I see you are calling them "rerips", which implies they might be different in some way.   Anyway, once you get it figured out, we can help you remove those duplicates from MC's library.  Optionally, we can move those files somewhere else, or we can delete them.  Moving is probably smarter.

Brian.

[Tom Russell]

Brian


That attachment probably doesn't make much sense...

Well... I wrote a reply to your response to me this morning and tried to post it. It said my attachment was too large and the attachment was removed. It looked to me like the message was sent without the attachment, hence the additional post with only the smaller attachment. I thought that post was sent sans attachment but I can't find that post. I assume the post I wrote is gone as it would either be under your post as a reply or at the top of the line.

Nothing earthshaking was in the post. Just clarifying what I am after. I don't have time to compose another post right now. In the meantime, I briefly looked at your new post. Busy posting morning! I understand about the wav file metadata thing. I have a lot of other files to enter into JRiver. They are on a MAC and are all in AIFF. Just so you'd know.

The main reason I went with JRiver is that is accepts Windows, Mac, wav, Aiff, etc. I'm tired of fighting. I want all of my files to get along.

I'll redo my post later tonight.

Thanks

Tom

[Tom Russell]

Brian

Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to get this back on track.

On to more confusion. I would usually try to make it easier to see who is saying what to whom by showing quotes from your replies in another color or another font. When I do this, I don't see any visual confirmation that I have done anything. This is what started the problem I had with my last post. It was apparent that I had attached an image to my post, as the file path was shown, but I couldn't see the attachment. Now, in this post, when I change the color or the font, nothing is different. I can't see the changes I have made. I've never worked in a word processor that works like this. Without confirmation of what I've done, it is awkward for me to use. There must be some simple thing here that I am missing. Not being able to style as I usually would, for this post, I'll try using titles and spacing to show what belongs with what. Very Awkward.

Brian said;
 In this case, with the Chris Whitley album, you have 3 copies of every file:

1. The one you added meta data for, which is in:  R:\audio files 169GB\Pauls CDs\
2.  Another copy in:  R:\EAC files 242GB\EAC new rips 2014\
3.  Another copy in:  R:\EAC files 242GB\new EAC 07-2014 97.8GB\

I'm guessing you have those 3 copies for most or all of the duplicates, but I have no way of knowing.

Tom replies;
Yes. I knew there were 3 copies. These are the 3 folders I initially loaded into JRiver. The unusual names actually do tell me the origin of the files. This goes back to a big editing project that will finally end with the properly edited files in the JRiver library. Almost there. JRiver did see the files a bit differently than I thought it would but this is not a big problem. As far as the content, I know what is what. The 2 "mystery" duplicates are the files I will ultimately discard and the files with the edited metadata will comprise the JRiver library.

What I want to do, what I don't know how to do, is to move some of these files to a Windows folder. This goes back to me being unable to see the relationship between JRiver files and Windows files. Initially, I want to cut and paste selected duplicate files from where they currently reside in JRiver to a new fresh folder in Windows. These will ultimately be deleted from the computer but I think it is premature to delete them at this time. I want to make certain that I don't delete my only copy of a song file.  Then, I want to copy the resulting JRiver library into a new fresh folder in Windows to use as a back-up. There is probably a tool in JRiver that makes back-ups easily. Simply put, I want to transfer files between JRiver and Windows. I don't know how to do this.

The only other procedure I need to do is to load the files from my Mac into JRiver and do the same thing I did with the Windows files. I use Pure Vinyl/Pure Music, which uses iTunes as it's file structure. Those Mac files are in a proper order, at least according to iTunes view of proper. All of those files are .AIFF. I assume that once I understand the procedures that move files between JRiver and Windows, I'll use the same procedures to navigate between JRiver and Mac.

Brian said;
If you want to make your file and directory naming very standardized, regular, and consistent, we can definitely use the Rename, Move, and Copy files tool to put everything into a nice consistent directory structure with file names exactly as you want them.

I'd say let's get your mystery files sorted out first.  Then, once those are dealt with, if you want to move all of your "good" files around, we can definitely help you do that.

Tom replies;
I looked at the Rename, Move and Copy files tool. It looked like it was about moving files within JRiver. If this tool will move files between JRiver, Windows computers, and Mac computers, that would be great.

I don't think of any of my files as "mystery" files. I can see how someone else might look at some of my stuff and think it a mystery.

Thinking about what I have written here as I write it, maybe I have over complicated all of this. Maybe the easiest best way to do this is forget about the intermediate step of moving the duplicate files back into Windows and simply delete them from the JRiver library. Then, use a back-up tool that I am certain must exist in JRiver to make the library back-up. Then, on to Mac.

Enough for now. I'm excited. I think I'm close to accomplishing something that has been out there for a long time. Wow!

Many, many thanks

Tom

[blgentry]

On to more confusion. I would usually try to make it easier to see who is saying what to whom by showing quotes from your replies in another color or another font. When I do this, I don't see any visual confirmation that I have done anything.

Try using the insert quote button instead.  It looks like a thought bubble.  Its in the toolbar just above all of the smileys.  You do something like this:

[ quote ] stuff that brian said here [ /quote ]

I put in extra spaces so that MC wouldn't process that, so you could see the quote tags.  You can just type them in, or use the insert quote button like I said.

After you've typed some stuff and used tags to alter it, you can press the Preview button at the bottom and it will show you what it will look like before you post it.  Edit, preview, edit, preview... and when you've got it right, post it.

More in the next reply.

Brian.

[blgentry]

Yes. I knew there were 3 copies. [...] The 2 "mystery" duplicates are the files I will ultimately discard and the files with the edited metadata will comprise the JRiver library.

Ok great.  Sounds like this is going to be easier then.

What I want to do, what I don't know how to do, is to move some of these files to a Windows folder. This goes back to me being unable to see the relationship between JRiver files and Windows files.

Some fundamentals then:

When you import files into JRiver, they don't move.  They stay *exactly* where they were on disk.  JRiver just knows about them and begins keeping track of them.  In your screen shot that we referenced, each file has a file name.  That is where the file is stored on disk.

You can tell JRiver to move files around on disk if you want to.  There are good reasons to do so.  But know this:  Moving files around on disk won't change the JRiver view AT ALL.  It will look identical, except that the file name will change.

This is because JRiver organizes files by METADATA:  The Album, Artist, Song name, etc.  It doesn't really care much about file names.  It keeps track of them.  But it does not use file or folder names to organize files.  It uses metadata to organize files.

I looked at the Rename, Move and Copy files tool. It looked like it was about moving files within JRiver. If this tool will move files between JRiver, Windows computers, and Mac computers, that would be great.

The Rename, Move, and Copy tool moves files around on disk.  It does not (strictly speaking) move files from computer to computer.  The purpose of this tool is to help you move or copy files in an organized way.  It won't change what JRiver sees, but it can help you make your disk structure be very logical.  This is helpful because when we look at Windows Explorer, it's easier to find things when the are organized.  Again, moving files around won't change JRiver's view of the files at all.  This is just a tool to help *externally* organize the files in the file system (disk).

You might not have any need for the RM&C tool at all.  That remains to be seen.

Maybe the easiest best way to do this is forget about the intermediate step of moving the duplicate files back into Windows and simply delete them from the JRiver library.

I think that's a good approach.  Just remove the duplicates from JRiver's library.  As long as you know where they all are on disk, you can deal with them externally:  Outside of JRiver.  Leaving just one good copy of everything in JRiver's database (what you seen on screen in JRiver).

Then, use a back-up tool that I am certain must exist in JRiver to make the library back-up.

You can use the RM&C tool  to make a copy of everything in the library.  Or portions of it.  Personally I don't do that, but you can.

Let's work on your Mac transfer issues after all of the above has been sorted out.

Brian.