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[Tinnitus]

In previous versions it was possible to turn of skinning.

Im running a htpc in my livingroom and controling it with a remote for playback or from a second pc in the office throug VNC. This way i dont need any mouse or keyboard in the livingroom  

I just have a little problem with screen updating. MC just seems to be hanging there and i have to move the window or minimize/maximize MC to get a screen update. This only happens with MC, not with any of the other programs that i run.

All i want to do is to be able to turn off skins since i really dont care much for this kind of feature anyway  

So is it stil possible to turn it off or will it be when 9.1 is released?
(im using 9.226 - by the way)

[Phil Lee]

This has been discussed a lot on the board. You can read the most recent thread here:

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1058790735

Basically MC9.1 can only be run with skins and there are no plans to change that.

[dragyn]

I wouldn't be posting nude pics on these boards. The ppl at JRiver will be looking at that all day instead of fixing bugs.

[Tinnitus]

Thank you  

Skins are here to stay and we don't have the ability to turn them off now.  (JimH)
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=di splay;num=1058790735

Well i dont care if they are here to stay im sure there's plenty of people who wants them so im all for it.

I just dont want to use them

So - does "we don't have the ability to turn them off now" mean its gonna be possible in a future release?

[Tinnitus]

Sorry about the pic - i just thougt it went well with the subject (and i think its only semi nude)  

[DocLotus]

The skinning in 9.1 is now inherent to the design meaning that the standard Windows frames (i.e the standard frames around most all windows) are gone.

The Minimize, Maximize, & Close buttons in 9.1 are now actually part of 9.1 & not part of windows so you do not want to be able to turn skinning off.

In the very first versions of 9.1 you could turn all skinning to off but you then got a rude surprise... the top Windows border was gone with the Minimize, Maximize, & Close buttons missing as they were part of Windows top taskbar.

Removing the standard Windows frames in 9.1 gave more room to other things such as the neat controls at the top & the menus where the standard Windows top task bar used to be.

The only down side I have noticed is that if you are using StarDocks WindowBlinds it no longer works with 9.1 as there is no longer a Windows frame to skin.  That has not bothered me as the skins provided so far with 9.1 look really good to me.

I have had no performance hits with WindowBlinds at all. They use something called predictive skinning meaning that the skin is only re-written every fourth or so screen refresh thereby making a skinned Win XP as fast as a non-skinned (or Classic) XP.  So a skinned screen can be as fast a non-skinned screen if done right as StarDock has proved with their WindowBlinds 4.0.

One Note: predictive skinning is only on WindowBlinds 4.0 which runs only on Win XP (another good reason to update your computer & operating system)

StarDock worked very closely with Microsoft in the development of Win XP & are sanction by Microsoft.  In fact, they have made several special skins for Microsoft that can be found on several Microsoft sites as "official skins".

I have not noticed any performance hits with the skinning on my system but if you are running a really old (and slow) system I suggest you consider updating as an old system will not run Win XP very well.  Even if you are still running Win 98 or ME you will have to update sooner or later as Microsoft no longer supports 98 & ME is not far behind.  The other thing is that many new programs coming out will no longer run on 95, 98 or ME but only on  XP or newer.  An example of this is Microsoft's upcoming version of Office... it will run ONLY on XP (and I assume 2000).

Updating your system will provide you with much improved overall performance letting you do things that are now impossible with an old, slow system.

[Doof]

You might try updating your video drivers.

[Tinnitus]

Hi Doc
Thanks for the reply. I dont think you quite understand what my problem is thoug.

I have 3 pc's, all running XP with SP1, in the house connected as a small office network.

two is in the office and one is set up as a HTPC in my livingroom connected to my TV and stereo. It is set up to run MC in hairstyle mode. This one i normaly control with a remote for musik, movie and picture playback etc.

But sometimes i need a little more hands-on control so i use a remote desktop program called VNC to connect one off my office pc's to the one in the livingroom. With this setup i dont need to have a mouse, keyboard or an extra screen in there i can control everything from the office.

The problem is of course that connecting through a network/internet connection is not fast and the screen updates take longer time. but i only have problems with MC. WMP is updating the screen fine and so is all of my other programs.

This is probably not because of any "wrong doing" from MC but it still leaves me with a smaller problem and an option to turn off the skinning (like we used to have) would cure me right away

In VNC there is an option to use 8bit colors or pixels fro the screen for slow networks, i tried this but it didnt help , and by the way my network is not slow. Im using the media server on the two office pc's and i dont have a DVD drive in the livingroom HTPC (still) so im streaming musik and movies through this network and its working like a charm.

Here is a picture of my remote screen:

When i first call up a dialog (in the picture you might recognize the options dialog) nothing apears or maybe just a button or two. But i can kinda paint the dialog back with the mouse. It was good entertainment the first couple of times but it starts to be a pain

So this long story aside my question was can i turn off the skin (please) and the answer apperently is no?

Here is a picture of the HTPC, its built into an old clock, dont worry about the half finished look its a work in progress and I am gonna finish it eventually - painted, with the numbers back on and the clock working - eventually  

[Tinnitus]

You might try updating your video drivers.

They are still shining, thats how hew they are.

[Doof]

I missed the part where it's the remote session that's acting funny. I take it if you were to hook a monitor up to the HTPC the skins would work fine...

Probably what's happening is that most of these remote session software packages use some form of windows acceleration or predicting with regards to how to draw the objects they're rendering. Since MC doesn't use the Windows API at all, the software is at a severe disadvantage. So you're probably right, disabling skins would be best in this case. But unfortunately it's not an option.

Are you trying to do any kind of actual library maintenence on the HTPC? Or just playback? Could the WebRemote work for your purposes?

[Tinnitus]

Hi doof
I have to go now but ill answer you later today...

[Tinnitus]

I missed the part where it's the remote session that's acting funny. I take it if you were to hook a monitor up to the HTPC the skins would work fine...

Exactly!

Are you trying to do any kind of actual library maintenence on the HTPC? Or just playback? Could the WebRemote work for your purposes?

I use the media server to connect to the HTPC from the two other pc's and i want to do all the maintenence remotely from that.

This is working perfect. I have been using MJ since version 7 and i only resently (maybe 3 months) changed to MC because i wanted to have a "complete" system for the HTPC.

I have never used the media server before though. I just didnt need it before. Also i dont know what the webremote is? i made couple of searches here in the forum but didnt come up much wiser?

Is it something i need - could benefit from?

[DocLotus]

>>> WMP is updating the screen fine and so is all of my other programs. <<<


I assume that WMP is skinned?

Have you tried the other skins for WMP?

Do they all work ok?

Does MC work ok when NOT in HairStyle mode?

It may be a combination of HairStyle & the slow network.  I know they are still updating HairStyle.

Have you tried the latest build of MC 9.1 for a better HairStyle?

[Tinnitus]

I assume that WMP is skinned?
Have you tried the other skins for WMP?
Do they all work ok?

Well actually no i didnt try them but i think its also not importent. I want to run MC and not WMP i just jused it as a point of reference.

Does MC work ok when NOT in HairStyle mode?

Well I probably didnt make this clear. I use the Hairstyle mode for playback when im controling the HTPC with my remote.
The problem only arise when i connect to the HTPC from one of my other computers. I only do this when i want to make som serious library maintenence and its always from the default layout - not hairstyle.

Im pretty sure the problem comes from the skinning but if its not possible to turn it of i will survive - not happy but i will survive

It may be a combination of HairStyle & the slow network.  I know they are still updating HairStyle.

Yeah i cant wait for what this is gonna evolve into in the future...

Have you tried the latest build of MC 9.1 for a better HairStyle?

Jup - 9.1.226 is my current running version.

[Tinnitus]

Can you use Microsoft's Remote Desktop?

Never tried it do you think its gonna make a difference?

If not, there are some options within VNC for polling. See if you can it up to poll fullscreen instead of just "window". Some of the other settings may be helpful too.

Yeah i always use it full screen. I also tried the other options for optimizing the connection including setting the screen update to 8bit pixels like they recomend for slower networks nothing helps. But like i mentioned before the only program that is giving me this problem is MC?? go figure.

Also, in case you haven't heard of it, TightVNC is a slightly better VNC.

I heard about it - didnt try it though - but im pretty sure its not VNC causing this since all the other programs are behaving fine...?

[DocLotus]

The reason I asked about running WMP with other skins is to see if it makes any difference in performance using various skins.  If it does then it is diffently a skinning issue.  If it does not then I don't know.

I think we have to come up with some way to determine if it reallly is related to skins or something else in MC 9.1.

Have you tied all three MC skins?  Do they all run the same?

You could also try a version of MC before 9.1 as skinning could be turned off & back on.

[Doof]

So you're running MC's Media Server on the HTPC, and then connecting to that from the other two PC's correct?

In that case, forget everything I just said.

Do the other PC's work alright with MC if you're accessing a library local to them? Like something other than the HTPC's library?

I was assuming before that you were running MC through some remote desktop type of software. But now it sounds like you're running a local copy of MC and connecting a to a remote media server. In that case, the culprit is the local machine again, and it could be back to the video drivers. What are the specs on the local PC (not the HTPC). And what kind of video card?

[Tinnitus]

Just tried to connect to the HTPC through a third pc. I still get a similar sluggish result but it seems that there actually is a difference. So maybe it is my video drivers. I will have to look into that tomorrow...

[Veazer]

...I have had no performance hits with WindowBlinds at all. They use something called predictive skinning meaning that the skin is only re-written every fourth or so screen refresh thereby making a skinned Win XP as fast as a non-skinned (or Classic) XP.  So a skinned screen can be as fast a non-skinned screen if done right as StarDock has proved with their WindowBlinds 4.0.

I agree, the "skinning engine" for Windowblinds 4 is very fast and I wish MC used it. It would be a faster program and people probably wouldn't have these other issues that have occured since 9.1...

As for the remote control issue, you might want to try "NetOp" although it is not a free program. I was a Systems admin and occasionally had to do remote work on the servers. I tried VNC, netmeeting, PC anywhere, etc. and I had by far the most success with NetOp. It is very fast and was less likely to have screen glitches like you have shown. http://www.netop.com

Also, you might just enable the media server and use web administration. I personally have not been able to get it to work (it just crashes the media server app) but others seem to have had success. Look at the 5th post on this thread:http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1059319221;start=4#4

[Tinnitus]

As for the remote control issue, you might want to try "NetOp" although it is not a free program.

Ok thanks - i will check it (im also gonna try out the XP remote desktop option just to make sure i didnt miss something).

Also, you might just enable the media server and use web administration. I personally have not been able to get it to work (it just crashes the media server app) but others seem to have had success. Look at the 5th post on this thread:http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=di splay;num=1059319221;start=4#4

I use the media server allready for managing the library, importing media etc but also for playback in the office and kithcen. But if i need to change options i need to access the program directly. Since this is a new setup i expect that when i finaly get the things up and running i wont need the remote desktop all that much.

The feature mentioned, in the above thread, seems very nice. I dont need it for my setup i guess but it would be nice to use at work or elsewhere.

Just open the options menu in tools and select startup
Enable the Media Server and select a port (The default 8080 is fine.
On your remote pc (in my case the laptop) type in the Playing PC's IP address followed by the port. (In my case 192.168.0.4:8080)
Then bam you've got a webpage with playing now, media library, playlists, and a controls section for forward, back, shuffle, et al.

I cant make it work though? I expect you have to connect to the IP address through a browser like IE?
Or is this the media server that you have to connect from MC?

[Veazer]

I cant make it work though? I expect you have to connect to the IP address through a browser like IE?
Or is this the media server that you have to connect from MC?

I can't get it to work either, and this makes it a little less useful . As soon as i enter the address in IE on the client computer it causes the media server to report errors. Here's what I get on the server side:

08/06/03 20:59:30 - received a connection
08/06/03 20:59:30 - Current Connections: 1
08/06/03 20:59:30 - ready for another connection
08/06/03 20:59:30 - sharing thread started
08/06/03 20:59:30 - sending 400
08/06/03 20:59:30 - Invalid Media Server protocol attempted.
08/06/03 20:59:30 - sharing thread exiting