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[JohnnyFire]

So, this morning, I got a reply from Microsoft support in regards to my start menu not working after the anniversary update.  Their "Official Word" [bleah] is that the start menu problem I am experiencing is categorically not their fault.  I need to uninstall Malwarebytes, Avast, ASC, Dropbox, AND JRiver MediaCenter.  "These applications do not work with Windows 10.  You need to take your issues up with the developers of these products"

After that load of crap,  My wife has made the unilateral decision that since she has to use my computer that I "will" be uninstalling JRiver.  It does not matter that I use JRiver for all of our media.

I just love being between a rock and a hard place.

 

i believe this mate in my situation only jr cause this but i love the app so much....

[DJLegba]

Do you and your wife have separate logons to the shared computer? If so, create a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer when you wife logs on. If not, create a desktop icon that runs a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer.

[Elric]

JRiver is by far the best application for music and other media that I have ever come across.  I really don't want to uninstall it.  

(I also don't want my wife making my life a living hell for a week because I refuse to do what she wants.)

Anyone have some advice?

[Elric]

Do you and your wife have separate logons to the shared computer? If so, create a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer when you wife logs on. If not, create a desktop icon that runs a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer.

Yes we have separate accounts, but she is having the same problem that I am.  And cycling explorer.exe does not fix the problem.

[JohnnyFire]

JRiver is by far the best application for music and other media that I have ever come across.  I really don't want to uninstall it.  

(I also don't want my wife making my life a living hell for a week because I refuse to do what she wants.)

Anyone have some advice?

have you tried a clean windows 10 latest update setup with usb creator?

[terrym@tassie]

JRiver is by far the best application for music and other media that I have ever come across.  I really don't want to uninstall it.  

(I also don't want my wife making my life a living hell for a week because I refuse to do what she wants.)

Anyone have some advice?

I am currently completing testing (thanks chris635) on a new version of my scripting solution (original version is referenced in my signature), the new version will reset Windows 10 processes only when MC has been actually playing for more than 30 minutes and doesn't require MCWS to be running. It is a single vbscript that sits in the background.
It may help you keep the peace with your loved one

[chris635]

I am currently completing testing (thanks chris365) on a new version of my scripting solution (original version is referenced in my signature), the new version will reset Windows 10 processes only when MC has been actually playing for more than 30 minutes and doesn't require MCWS to be running. It is a single vbscript that sits in the background.
It may help you keep the peace with your loved one

Yes, terry@nz is really working on something good for us. Testing is ongoing, so hang in there.

[Elric]

Thing is, the Start Menu doesn't work right from the boot. with nothing else running.  I don't get it.  And I certainly don't see how it's MC's fault.

[terrym@tassie]

Thing is, the Start Menu doesn't work right from the boot. with nothing else running.  I don't get it.  And I certainly don't see how it's MC's fault.

OH I see , my script will not fix that. I think unfortunately you may be one of the many 'Anniversary Update Victims', the Websphere is unfortunately full of horror stories.

Not having a Start Menu from boot is definitely NOT a symptom of the MC/Windows10 interaction problem that I see. (Start Menu and Apps crashing after MC has been PLAYING for longer than about 40 minutes).

If you uninstall MC does the Start Menu reappear?

[chris635]

Thing is, the Start Menu doesn't work right from the boot. with nothing else running.  I don't get it.  And I certainly don't see how it's MC's fault.

I agree with terry@nz. I did a fresh reinstall after the update with the new build.

[RD James]

Manually restarting Explorer isn't a proper fix either.
I have a number of applications that disappear from the system tray when you do this, which makes them inaccessible, and some programs don't behave correctly after restarting Explorer either, unless you restart them. (losing the current session)
I have to fully log out/in or reset the PC.
 
I wonder if the way that JRiver implements the taskbar media controls affects this too, as I've disabled the shell extensions and still have problems after JRiver has been running for a while.

[Elric]

@terry@nz  I Had been using your scripts before the Aniversary Update.  They had been really helpful.  I look forward  to the new iteration.

[terrym@tassie]

Manually restarting Explorer isn't a proper fix either.
I have a number of applications that disappear from the system tray when you do this, which makes them inaccessible, and some programs don't behave correctly after restarting Explorer either, unless you restart them. (losing the current session)

Totally agree, that is why my new script solution terminates only suspended W10 processes (including Modern Apps) and leaves all traditional applications and the system tray intact. It also only does this after MC has been playing for long enough for the problem to occur.
I can leave MC open for days importing, tagging etc and the Start Menu and Modern Apps are completely unaffected so there is no point terminating W10 processes unless MC has been playing for 40 minutes or so.
I will hopefully post the new version soon.

[terrym@tassie]

@terry@nz  I Had been using your scripts before the Aniversary Update.  They had been really helpful.  I look forward  to the new iteration.

Glad the original script was helpful, new one soon.

As regards your Start Menu problem have you tried creating a new user account and logging in with it?

You also might like to try the following from an Administrator command window:

Code: [Select]

sfc /scannow
if the above gives errors or doesn't complete try

Code: [Select]

Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup

Wait for it to complete then run

Code: [Select]

Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
Good luck

Terry

[Elric]

Glad the original script was helpful, new one soon.

As regards your Start Menu problem have you tried creating a new user account and logging in with it?

You also might like to try the following from an Administrator command window:

Code: [Select]

sfc /scannow

New user had the same problem, and SFC found no errors.  I have tried rolling back the install, but it appears anniversary ate the rollback...

I really don't want to do a bare iron re-install ... just loading all the apps again...ugh... 

I am still trying to find solutions before nuking.

[Elric]

I finally succeeded in rolling back the anniversary update.  My start menu works again. I can right click it and launch all (any of) the contexts again!!!

*EDIT* 0300 my time.

Nope stopped working again after the next reboot.  Right-click on the start menu and none of the listed contexts actually work....

And it starts working again after another reboot

[RD James]

The anniversary update improved things with regard to the start menu/taskbar not responding, it just didn't fix them. You're better off having it installed.

[JohnnyFire]

The anniversary update improved things with regard to the start menu/taskbar not responding, it just didn't fix them. You're better off having it installed.

its not true the anniversary update fix the start menu in most cases, you just need a clean setup or a succesful upgrade!
i believe its the app compability causes this caused only with JR and 1 or 2 more apps....

[Elric]

The anniversary update improved things with regard to the start menu/taskbar not responding, it just didn't fix them. You're better off having it installed.

I hear you, but the start menu right-clicked contexts didn't work for me under the AU which was not better for me.  I mentioned up above, after the response I got from MS my wife made a unilateral decision that I would be removing MC from _my_ computer simply because she has to use my computer.  That was not an acceptable solution.

I can live without the AU until it gets fixed.

[RD James]

Wouldn't it be easier to set up a separate user account for her than removing JRiver?

[Elric]

She IS running as a separate user. (And no creating a new admin acct did NOT fix the issue.)

[RD James]

Make sure you have the shell extensions disabled.
If JRiver isn't running, it seems like another program must be causing this?

[millst]

I'm going to be so excited that one day when dism or sfc actually fixes a problem I'm having. You know what they say about your first time...

-tm

[Elric]

Make sure you have the shell extensions disabled.
If JRiver isn't running, it seems like another program must be causing this?

Please read my posts, starting with Reply #49.

As far as shell extensions it was one of the first things I tried. It did not change anything.  Rolling Windows back to build 1511 DID fix the problem.  So, no, the AU release is not a solution for me right now.

[terrym@tassie]

I'm going to be so excited that one day when dism or sfc actually fixes a problem I'm having. You know what they say about your first time...

-tm

Well, those sfc and dism commands above have just recently fixed my own Anniversary Update issues, but I wasn't remotely excited because it wasn't my first time........for that and many other things, it's the one benefit of growing old

[patented_licks]

Here's a workaround: use Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/). I've been using it for years as a substitute for the Windows start menu, and it has been rock solid. Have been on Win 10-64 since a month after its release.

[scgt1]

Well the new problem since the Anniversary update is the whole dang taskbar comes up blank. No icons non zip ziltch. No windows start button no quick access buttons, time nothing. Clicking where those icons would be does jack either. Man MS is doing good with this forced on product. 

[michael123]

It's a Windows 10 issue, that's well known.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100712.0

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104591.0

Since updating to the latest Insider build (which is likely the Anniversary Update RTM that comes out next week), I've yet to encounter this issue again.

It is likely a JRiver bug than a Windows issue, I have it only on the machines with JRiver installed.
And yes, sadly, it continues after upgrading to recent Windows version

[JimH]

Read the threads on this here and search on the Internet.  It isn't a JRiver bug.

[JohnnyFire]

kyour might check those steps in the link in the cause you need a wordaround

http://www.urtech.ca/2015/05/solved-windows-10-start-menu-and-modern-apps-do-not-function

[JohnnyFire]

the dropbox client also cause this

https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/203581953-DB-cause-Windows-10-Critical-Error-Start-Menu-failure

i dont blame any app, but maybe a incompability or something...
the os at it self not always is the core of the problem

[astromo]

Here's a workaround: use Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/). I've been using it for years as a substitute for the Windows start menu, and it has been rock solid. Have been on Win 10-64 since a month after its release.

Finally an echo of my suggestion back at Reply #14.

I recently forced the Anniversary update for Win 10 and here's the status report:

• Before - No issues
• After - No issues

For some here, it may be worth avoiding domestic aggravation to try something that 2 other users find useful. Just sayin' ..

[chris635]

Finally an echo of my suggestion back at Reply #14.

I recently forced the Anniversary update for Win 10 and here's the status report:

• Before - No issues
• After - No issues

For some here, it may be worth avoiding domestic aggravation to try something that 2 other users find useful. Just sayin' ..

Yes that gets you around the start menu problem. It doesn't for any modern apps you use, as they crash as well because they are suspended like shellexperiencehost.exe and searchui.exe.
terrym@nz is working on a viable solution that works perfectly. terrym@nz should be publishing soon. Making sure everything works correctly.

[astromo]

Not sure what's defined as a "modern app"?

If that's any of the M$ Win10 Apps, then that would explain why I've got no collateral issues. My installations avoided the M$ account since Win8 and I've set up as a local installation only. I took a sceptical view of M$'s motives with the account philosophy and I've also avoided the M$ Apps as a result by default.

Not such a bad choice in hindsight given this kind of report:

• Security Issue in Windows leaks Login Data

Regardless of whether it has validity, the approach that I've taken means that I've got one less cyber-security concern to worry about (at least I think that's the case).

[Frobozz]

Finally an echo of my suggestion back at Reply #14.

I recently forced the Anniversary update for Win 10 and here's the status report:

• Before - No issues
• After - No issues

For some here, it may be worth avoiding domestic aggravation to try something that 2 other users find useful. Just sayin' ..

Any of the alternative start menus will "fix" the problem. The Microsoft Start Menu will still crash, but you'll not notice if you're only using an alternative start menu to launch applications. Any of the alternative start menus, like Classic Shell, Stardock Start10, StartIsBack, or others, will continue working even while the Microsoft start menu and other parts of the explorer shell are not responding. I consider using an alternative start menu to be more of a kludge style fix than a proper fix.

I've been using StartIsBack as a start menu replacement. StartIsBack continues to work even while the official Microsoft start menu, or other parts of the explorer shell, is not responding.

[chris635]

Not sure what's defined as a "modern app"?

If that's any of the M$ Win10 Apps, then that would explain why I've got no collateral issues. My installations avoided the M$ account since Win8 and I've set up as a local installation only. I took a sceptical view of M$'s motives with the account philosophy and I've also avoided the M$ Apps as a result by default.

Not such a bad choice in hindsight given this kind of report:

• Security Issue in Windows leaks Login Data

Regardless of whether it has validity, the approach that I've taken means that I've got one less cyber-security concern to worry about (at least I think that's the case).

Modern app being...

   WinStore.exe
   Calculator.exe
   Microsoft.MSN.Weather.exe
   SystemSettings.exe (this is an app and it will fail too.)
 
Just to name a few, oh and Microsoft edge. I do use some apps. Not everyone does, thats why they don't notice it as much. So yes a third party start menu will cure start menu problems, but the moment you try to use any of these apps, it will crash.

This isn't so much a start menu problem. It is problem with how apps get suspended (think of hibernate, when you close out the app, it starts back up and goes to sleep if you will).
   

[astromo]

Thanks Frobozz and chris635 - the insight provided is appreciated.

[chris635]

Thanks Frobozz and chris635 - the insight provided is appreciated.

Look at the screen shot I made, you can see all apps suspended in dark gray. The start menu resides in the ShellExperienceHost.exe and SearchUI.exe. Once you click on the start menu, these two come out of the suspended state. Any of the other apps will do the same if you are using them. Once you stop using them, some close out then reopen into a suspended state, others go right into the suspended state. The problem is JRiver MC and Windows 10 are not communicating well once this happens. Now it should not happen with MC open and not playing, but once you start playing something, within 30 to 50 min, the crashes will start.


terrym@nz is simplifying his script to terminate all suspended apps (with no errors). Testing is ongoing and looks promising.

[daveg]

Seem like this is system specific. But a couple weeks ago I was browsing around and found something that seems to work (for me at least). Can't remember where I found it either.

Anyways, I scheduled the following to run every night...  taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F

I realized yesterday that my start button had worked for 2 weeks...but it didn't work yesterday. So I manually ran it, and voila...menu popped right up.

Hope this might help some others..

[jesseinsf]

Where do I start. First off, this has been happening since the Betas of Windows 10. Secondly, Microsoft is Blaming JRiver and JRiver is blaming Microsoft. It's been 2+ years now and no one is working with Microsoft to resolve this issue. Lastly, no one should have to run Scripts and no one should have to pay $50 for something that causes a malfunction to surface with the Operating System. The only reason why I keep using JRiver is because I am a loyal customer to a media player that has Awesome features. This issue is not going to go away anytime soon.

[chris635]

Where do I start. First off, this has been happening since the Betas of Windows 10. Secondly, Microsoft is Blaming JRiver and JRiver is blaming Microsoft. It's been 2+ years now and no one is working with Microsoft to resolve this issue. Lastly, no one should have to run Scripts and no one should have to pay $50 for something that causes a malfunction to surface with the Operating System. The only reason why I keep using JRiver is because I am a loyal customer to a media player that has Awesome features. This issue is not going to go away anytime soon.

That's because the argument has been framed completely wrong. Most every one has been complaining about the start menu not working. This is not the real issue. The problem is with suspended apps. The start menu is tied to SearchUI.exe and ShellExperienceHost.exe. These get suspended as well as the WinStore.exe, Calculator.exe. Microsoft.Photos.exe...etc. Any app that gets suspended will crash after about 30 to 50 min of playing something in MC (MC can be open not playing and this will not happen). This happens with Foobar, and Media Monkey. It does not happen with itunes or VLC. terrym@nz is almost done with his new script..(I have also been testing it). It will terminate any suspended app after a certain time frame. terrym@nz can elaborate further once he releases it. I think most people will be impressed with his work.

[jesseinsf]

That's because the argument has been framed completely wrong. Most every one has been complaining about the start menu not working. This is not the real issue. The problem is with suspended apps. The start menu is tied to SearchUI.exe and ShellExperienceHost.exe. These get suspended as well as the WinStore.exe, Calculator.exe. Microsoft.Photos.exe...etc. Any app that gets suspended will crash after about 30 to 50 min of playing something in MC (MC can be open not playing and this will not happen). This happens with Foobar, and Media Monkey. It does not happen with itunes or VLC. terrym@nz is almost done with his new script..(I have also been testing it). It will terminate any suspended app after a certain time frame. terrym@nz can elaborate further once he releases it. I think most people will be impressed with his work.

my point was that we should not have to run any scripts, it should just work after 2 years.

[chris635]

my point was that we should not have to run any scripts, it should just work after 2 years.

I agree with you, however this is the only option as of now.

[mx4789]

Happy to report that one of the more recent (anniversary?) updates seems to have solved the issue for me.

[glynor]

So, this morning, I got a reply from Microsoft support in regards to my start menu not working after the anniversary update.  Their "Official Word" [bleah] is that the start menu problem I am experiencing is categorically not their fault.  I need to uninstall Malwarebytes, Avast, ASC, Dropbox, AND JRiver MediaCenter.  "These applications do not work with Windows 10.  You need to take your issues up with the developers of these products"

We swear, it isn't us. It is mere coincidence that all of those applications (and many others), which work fine on previous versions of Windows, and even those that don't hook into the explorer.exe process at all, somehow manage to deadlock it. Windows 10 works perfectly when you remove all of the applications you want to use it with.

And it absolutely has nothing to do with the fact that we fired our entire QA department midway through the development of Windows 10. Nope. Not at all. Nothing to see here.

Even that nonsense would be somewhat excusable if they'd published something for developers saying: Here's how you support Windows 10 without making explorer.exe deadlock. If that document exists somewhere buried on MSDN, I don't know where it is (and, apparently, neither does DropBox, Avast, Adobe, Valve, and a ton of other developers).

Nonsense. The Anniversary update is shaping up to be a crapshow. They broke all the webcams. They broke their own controllers. It bluescreens when you just simply plug in a Kindle. Oh, and they forgot to include a whole set of required DLLs and broke PowerShell.  How in-all-that-is-holy did that make it through QA? Oh yeah, you fired them. 

[blgentry]

^ Nice to see you posting again Glynor.  I (we) have missed you. 

Brian.

[glynor]

Soon my Internetz will be resurrected!

But, still have about a month and a half before that... 

[amsco15]

My experience with this issue goes back to Win 7.  For me, this is not a new problem unique to Win 10.  This issue is a couple years old at this point.

[chris635]

Hello Forum Members,

   terrym@nz has recently started a new thread with a newer start menu, app problem solution. Works great.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html

[amsco15]

Just discovered that terrym@nz has written a script that works around this problem.  I'll give it a try this weekend.  Fantastic work. 

The problem on my machine was reduced with the Anniversary version of Win 10 (click start twice) but fully resurrected with the Creators Update.  Would be nice if JRiver incorporated such a script to solve a problem I only experience with JRiver.