Topic: Volume leveling via Gizmo/jremote (Read 15751 times)

dafloydman · « **on:** July 19, 2016, 07:49:37 am »

hi all ,
i have asked this question before and there appeared to be no solution
to what in my opinion is a bread and butter feature , i gave up trying to sync my phone
due to constant resync issues upgraded my cellular data and now find myself adjusting the volume for
virtually every track , hardly a great look for something i refer to as the best media player on the planet..

Anybody agree with me.?

Alright since jrmc cant do this via gizmo i have a thought ....
if i rip my entire library of flac to mp3 and choose volume level in the convert parameters
to create stack for each item is there a way to make gizmo/jremote play the volume leveled version
instead of the original flac while still updating play counts as if the flac has been played.

As of this post modification i have had 105 views and only one comment, does that mean that volume leveling despite being a basic requirement of any media player not important ,
to the other users of jrmc. If this is important to you can you consider adding your voice to this thread as maybe then the devs will prioritise this.

Talk about competitive disadvantages if the developers cant give me something if not volume leveling then at least work to fix the bugs in syncing a note 3 (note 2 and sgs3 also had the same problems ) I hate to say it but things like this make apples closed eco system
look attractive .

To the development team .

Don't get me wrong i am a massive advocate of this application to the point of even buying
licenses for others who like it but are short of cash . I have not done this for any other application but as it stands i am becoming open to finding another solution , if you lose just one customer (i.e me ) for a reason like this that is surely valid ( for audiophile software ) then you might want to view this a serious thing ,
please don't be offended by this as it really is driven by one of your loyal customers
care for what you have created .

Regards
Floyd

defenz0r · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2016, 11:02:49 am »

I do agree with you. This problem is so fundamentally, it should not exist in first place.
And if there is a solution for some reason we cannot simply find, it's due bad usability.
This Software is like a riddle sometimes.
Even if there is a Wiki, it doesn't change the thing that you have to search the correct term, even if your question to solve is the same.

If i were you, i wouldnt convert to a lower quality file format.
I would make a new Folder and copy the wanted music inside it. Then maybe use ReplayGain and change the value of the sound level in there.
But do nothing to lessen the quality of your library.

Besides, do you have the same Performance issue like me? http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106013.0
Taking resize action inside of JRiver will Lag my Mouse. And its just not responsible whyever.

dafloydman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2016, 03:46:20 pm »

"I do agree with you. This problem is so fundamentally, it should not exist in first place."
Hi Defenz0r . Its great that someone else actually sees this as important , certainly wish
the developers did as well.

I wanted to use the stacked copies of the music as even though there are 2 copies of the
same file in my library it is kind of viewed as one file esp for number of played etc.
and when i play the same file at home where volume level is not an issue it will default to
the original flac anyway.

As far as the problem you listed no problem here

defenz0r · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2016, 04:34:06 pm »

I dont unerstand, means that your problem is solved for now?

dafloydman · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2016, 05:00:39 pm »

no that was referring to the resize issue you asked about.

This problem has been going on as long as i have used jriver , i was advised to
buy a jriver id to solve it. the thing that concerns me most is that when i post this question
(i have before ) judging by the response , very few people seem to think it matters.
which is weird when it is really such a basic expectation to not have to adjust your volume with
every track. I can only assume that people who are using gizmo/jremote are listening to one album
at a time and therefore don't have the issue.

My attraction to jriver is that i can use one media player for everything if i was to leave it behind this
would be a pretty good reason .

ps i only use jremote for streaming as trying to sync my phone ( which solved the volume issue in the conversion
process) note 3 was just a pain in the ass , resyncing 10000 files with no solution in sight .

dafloydman · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2016, 06:11:17 pm »

Jim
Can you respond to this and explicitly say

JRiver will not sync to a lot of samsung phones .

Volume leveling audio via streaming is not important to us
just keep your phone handy and adjust the volume with every track.

If you want to use your media publicly ie cafe music
buy a jriver id or use a professional service. Because our
audiophile software is not up to the task

blgentry · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2016, 09:04:29 am »

Quote from: dafloydman on July 19, 2016, 05:00:39 pm

This problem has been going on as long as i have used jriver , i was advised to
buy a jriver id to solve it. the thing that concerns me most is that when i post this question
(i have before ) judging by the response , very few people seem to think it matters.
which is weird when it is really such a basic expectation to not have to adjust your volume with
every track.

I think the number of people that use JRemote for streaming is teeny tiny compared to those that use it as a pure "remote control". The streaming feature of JRemote is somehow "special" in that it is not a DLNA stream. So the DLNA options that allow volume leveling don't apply. I'm not sure what it uses. But it seems like the streaming feature of JRemote was sort of a "throw in" type feature; meaning that it wasn't really designed for full functionality or sound quality. It's probably just intended for casual use, as opposed to "this is the primary way I listen to music".

But maybe the answer to your requirement is below...

Quote

ps i only use jremote for streaming as trying to sync my phone ( which solved the volume issue in the conversion
process) note 3 was just a pain in the ass , resyncing 10000 files with no solution in sight .

What's the issue with syncing your phone? I've done this with several devices and had no problems. I *HAVE* had to work around how MC detects devices. In some cases, with Android phones, I've had to sync to a local hard disk folder, and then use Android File Transfer to copy the contents of that folder to the phone. It's two steps, but it works fine.

For my more "serious" Android music device, I use a separate micro-SD card and MC syncs directly to it with no issues at all. It's just storage, so that's how it should be.

Maybe if you give some details, we can help you get syncing to work, which might fix your problem in a different (and really better) way.

Brian.

dafloydman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2016, 02:54:06 pm »

thanks for responding brian really appreciate it .
The syncing issue on a samsung galaxy note 3 is that it attempts to resync my entire list
specified in my handheld options.
I have done the other way you mention to a hd and then copy it , but if i do that it doesn't
update my play stats which is one of the criteria that my smartlists .

If i could have a custom view in my library that was able to play the stacked files ( the converted
and volume leveled files ) that i think would work i think but not sure if it is possible.

it also seems that playing via web gizmo would work for V.L but i have not been able to get it
to consistently work.
cheers .

RD James · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2016, 02:28:42 pm »

+1 for Volume Leveling and other DSP options for Gizmo clients.

Desja55 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2016, 11:18:54 pm »

I noticed that JRiver is streaming in .wav format compared to Sonos who is streaming in .flac format.
Maybe this is why volume leveling and DSP cannot be acheived with JRemote and Gizmo.

See attached screen captures. All my files are in .flac format in my library.

jctcom · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2016, 06:01:23 pm »

+1 for volume levelling via JRemote. I use JRemote for streaming whenever I am out and about and also when I want to wear headphones around the house. Volume levelling would be an appreciated function.

Carl

lynes88 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2016, 02:51:23 pm »

It was always a head scratcher why volume control would not work while using Gizmo. I set the volume on my receiver knowing that while on my patio it will need to be ready for that listening but it would be nice to be able to adjust from my Samsung Galaxy S6 phone... just sayin. Is it user error?

dafloydman · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2016, 04:22:17 pm »

If nothing else , its great to hear that others want this cheers &
thanks for adding your voice

blgentry · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2016, 04:35:38 pm »

You know, it's possible to do this using another piece of software, Bubble UPNP.

You can run Bubble as a DLNA renderer on your Android. Then run Gizmo as the remote control for MC. Tell MC to send audio to the Bubble renderer (which plays to your Android). Configure a DLNA profile with Volume Leveling. Done. Gizmo for control, Bubble for rendering, MC for DLNA based volume leveling.

The free version of Bubble will play as a DLNA renderer for 30 minutes, then stop. Plenty of time to prove to yourself that it works (or does not). I just tried it with Volume Leveling on and off, and it *definitely* does volume leveling properly when set to on, using Bubble as the renderer.

Just an idea.

Brian.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2016, 11:24:41 pm »

That should also work if you use Bubble as the DLNA Controller and Renderer. That would save having to use two bits of software on your device to play music.

The MC DLNA Server will (should) then provide the volume leveling and play count recording. (Untested)

But with either solution you would be using Bubble as the player, and not Gizmo or any other JRiver product.
Plus you would be streaming from MC, and not playing local, synced versions of your media files. So you will be using data on your phone plan.
If you have modified views for Gizmo, they should appear similar in Bubble when it is acting as a DLNA Controller, so all good there.

dafloydman · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2016, 03:38:13 am »

This sounds hopeful , i have been looking at it a few days ago and gave up .
but now you have both given me fresh hope . Brilliant.
So can i expect it to update playcounts as well ?
Thanks so much guys really appreciate your expertise on this and thanks for taking the time
Will report back
Cheers

dafloydman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:14:39 am »

I have been trying this , when i am on wifi all is good play counts , vol levelling. ( yippee )
Although it is not converting from flac as per my dlna settings .
When i turn off wifi and go cellular then i can no longer connect
Any help would be great .

Just to confirm brian.
are the vl settings done in JRiver dlna or somewhere within Bubbleupnp?

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:23:40 am »

Please see the topic called Network Access on our wiki.

blgentry · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:55:19 am »

Quote from: dafloydman on July 27, 2016, 04:14:39 am

When i turn off wifi and go cellular then i can no longer connect

Ahhh, darn it. I responded to this mostly about the Volume Leveling. I didn't read the whole thread again, which is all about you wanting to use JRemote outside of your house. I don't think DLNA streaming works outside of a local network. If it does I'm not sure how to configure it.

Quote

are the vl settings done in JRiver dlna or somewhere within Bubbleupnp?

Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA server > (click on profile) > Audio > Advanced > Volume Leveling > (checked) . Then restart MC and your client.

I'm back to wondering if we can help you just do a regular sync, using lists that don't use play count as a parameter. It sounds like you want "fresh music" all the time. Maybe there's a better way to try to determine this, that would work with handheld sync.

Brian.

DJLegba · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:01:05 am »

Quote from: blgentry on July 27, 2016, 06:55:19 am

Ahhh, darn it. I responded to this mostly about the Volume Leveling. I didn't read the whole thread again, which is all about you wanting to use JRemote outside of your house. I don't think DLNA streaming works outside of a local network. If it does I'm not sure how to configure it.

Wouldn't a VPN connection work? Most newer routers support OpenVPN, and you can get an OpenVPN client app for your phone.

dafloydman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:25:39 am »

Thats all good Brian.
I appear to have gotten Rodericks suggestion working which as you also
suggested uses bubbleupnp ( vl works nice and play counts )
I have installed bubble on mac computer and connected through bubble.
it would have been nice to be able to use jremote in tandem but cant seem to
get sound when i have bubble as a zone .
This has been great advice and it is the furthest i got . Thanks again

Also the ability to download to my device . which is a nice addition

sounds like i have some reading of open vpn as well

RoderickGI · « **Reply #21 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:42:45 pm »

DLNA discovery wouldn't work on an open internet connection. However DLNA may work over the internet once the connection parameters are known and established on your device.

But I agree that using a VPN would be better when outside your LAN.

A quick search shows that people have been using (trying to?) BubbleUPnP over a VPN for five years or more! But further searching shows that it may be necessary to use the BubbleUPnP Server to make it easy. I suspect though that just the correct Port Forwarding in your router to the MC Server, and perhaps specifying the server IP address directly, rather than using DLNA discovery, will get you connected. However, on Android there may be issues. Regardless, there seems to be a lot of information on the internet about getting it all working.

My Windows 10 Mobile has a VPN built right in. Neat. No extra software required. It's even available in the quick access notifications area, so easy to quickly turn on. Sweet.

Let us know how you go solving this one Dafloydman. I'm sure other users will want to know.

blgentry · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:13:16 pm »

I don't mean to be "that guy", but my solution to this problem is to use a dedicated player application on a dedicated device with a selection of music that I like. Volume leveling is built in to the app. All the music is local, so it will play when I'm in the Congo, Key West, or in my secret lead lined bunker.

I'm currently using an older Android device with an SD card and a Pono. Both work really nicely.

Brian.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #23 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:29:19 pm »

That is my preference too Brian.

But that doesn't solve the number of plays issue, and sometimes it is nice just to see what you can achieve with technology.

dafloydman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2016, 12:28:24 am »

Hi Guys .
Some of what you are saying is over my head but I did get it going thanks go to both of you guys.
It involved installing the bubble server on my mac through terminal . and then copying the relevent
settings which are all on the bubble upnp site onto my android handset.
Once connected i then get the choice of media servers i then of course connect to jriver.
I have used it all day at work
with all of my play counts updating , and all at the same volume which is absolutely brilliant .

I cant use jremote for this which just means that i cant rate tracks as i am listening ( something i sometimes do )
but that is still easy enough when i get to a computer and sort through the last played smartlist. , having said that it
would be great if i could somehow use jremote through bubble but still really happy with the result.

Another pretty attractive thing about bubbleupnp is that in the preferences it allows to actually keep the streamed files
( in there converted format )on
your device which i have done, this will be useful at those times that i dont have a network connection ( very seldom )

So in short so far it is great and it is goodbye to syncing phones
Again , Thanks alot to both of you .
Cheers
Floyd

RD James · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2016, 10:26:05 am »

I'd still like to see Volume Leveling and DSP options made available for Gizmo clients since I'm using JRemote on iOS and don't want to be switching between a separate remote and client software just to get music working.
Having a DLNA client always running in the background on your phone seems like a good way to kill battery life too.

jctcom · « **Reply #26 on:** July 28, 2016, 01:17:55 pm »

Quote from: RD James on July 28, 2016, 10:26:05 am

I'd still like to see Volume Leveling and DSP options made available for Gizmo clients since I'm using JRemote on iOS and don't want to be switching between a separate remote and client software just to get music working.
Having a DLNA client always running in the background on your phone seems like a good way to kill battery life too.

Also it doesn't look like BubbleUPNP is available for IOS. Though there may be something similar. Still this as well as the ability to save music locally should all be built into JRemote. The ability to save music locally has been requested for quite some time. many other apps do it and it would be nice if my (Our) main music server / client had the ability to do it.

Carl.

RD James · « **Reply #27 on:** July 28, 2016, 01:24:20 pm »

Quote from: jctcom on July 28, 2016, 01:17:55 pm

Also it doesn't look like BubbleUPNP is available for IOS. Though there may be something similar. Still this as well as the ability to save music locally should all be built into JRemote. The ability to save music locally has been requested for quite some time. many other apps do it and it would be nice if my (Our) main music server / client had the ability to do it.

I'm assuming that BubbleUPNP runs as a service on Android (I have no experience with Android devices) which is not something that's possible to even do on iOS.
So you would be running separate client and remote apps on Android simultaneously, instead of having JRemote just stream audio directly.

dafloydman · « **Reply #28 on:** July 28, 2016, 05:30:40 pm »

When running ios does soundcheck normalise volume when using jremote?

RD James · « **Reply #29 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:59:12 pm »

Quote from: dafloydman on July 28, 2016, 05:30:40 pm

When running ios does soundcheck normalise volume when using jremote?

No, JRiver doesn't tag files with SoundCheck data.
I don't know if that would apply in JRemote anyway.

dafloydman · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2016, 07:35:15 pm »

That's a bummer , before i was told to try bubble i was considering getting an iphone if that
had of worked.
As far as ios i have seen a few recommendations on this page
https://community.wd.com/t/best-upnp-dlna-streaming-app-for-ios/92615

I is a bit of a bummer having to use a seperate app , but after a day of enjoying music at a consistent
volume i've got used to it already.

I suspect jremote/gizmo will never actually download due to potential copyright issues.
If so i can't say i blame them.

jctcom · « **Reply #31 on:** July 28, 2016, 08:04:00 pm »

Quote from: dafloydman on July 28, 2016, 07:35:15 pm

I suspect jremote/gizmo will never actually download due to potential copyright issues.
If so i can't say i blame them.

There are no copyright issues when you are downloading your own music from your own collection. Other wise Itunes and tonnes of other apps that allow you to copy your music to your iPhone (Or other portable device) would not exist.

Carl

dafloydman · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2016, 09:59:17 pm »

of course , but my thinking was if i share my library with someone else. But
sure i could well be wrong

jctcom · « **Reply #33 on:** July 28, 2016, 10:04:43 pm »

Quote from: dafloydman on July 28, 2016, 09:59:17 pm

of course , but my thinking was if i share my library with someone else. But
sure i could well be wrong

But no one is talking about sharing their library with someone else? We are talking about downloading our music to our portable devices.

In my case it is only for playing when I am outside of Canada or cannot get internet access for some reason as normally I use JRemote to stream from my NAS to my iPhone and play via internet. But internet is not always available.

Carl

RD James · « **Reply #34 on:** July 28, 2016, 10:37:19 pm »

Quote from: dafloydman on July 28, 2016, 07:35:15 pm

As far as ios i have seen a few recommendations on this page
https://community.wd.com/t/best-upnp-dlna-streaming-app-for-ios/92615

But you can't run a DLNA client as a service on iOS so you can't run JRemote and play music to your phone using these apps.
And I wouldn't want to run a DLNA client as a service on a mobile device because that would kill battery life.

Quote from: dafloydman on July 28, 2016, 07:35:15 pm

I suspect jremote/gizmo will never actually download due to potential copyright issues.
If so i can't say i blame them.

There was talk of this being in development for JRemote a while ago, but then JRiver bought the developer and the app hasn't been updated in almost a year so I think they might have killed it off.

dafloydman · « **Reply #35 on:** July 28, 2016, 10:55:03 pm »

Quote from: jctcom on July 28, 2016, 10:04:43 pm

But no one is talking about sharing their library with someone else? We are talking about downloading our music to our portable devices.

Carl

That's true but of course (with an access key ) there would be nothing stopping anyone from doing so no?
I am not saying it is true but still it seems to me like it could make sense , and as such was just a suggested possibility .
If you really want to know for sure talk to the developers , in the meantime i will be using bubbleupnp , thanks to the
great input in thread
Surely anymore conversation about this particular point is speculative & excessive , but if you find anything from the
developers it'd be great if you could post it in this thread

jctcom · « **Reply #36 on:** July 29, 2016, 12:17:49 am »

Well since Bubbleupnp is not an option for me and other iPhone users (Nor I believe is there any other similar app that could do the job since Apple probably does not allow such a service to run in the background)

The only viable solutions are either for JRemote to get a much needed upgrade to use the already included volume information in our databases (If you have run analysis on your audio files) or sadly to use an app from a different company.

I for one would really like to use JRemote.

Carl

dafloydman · « **Reply #37 on:** July 29, 2016, 12:20:25 am »

Great i hope it comes , really happy to hear that there are others that want
it , because i was beginning to think that no one cared about it

scolumbo · « **Reply #38 on:** July 29, 2016, 12:05:15 pm »

Quote from: jctcom on July 29, 2016, 12:17:49 am

Well since Bubbleupnp is not an option for me and other iPhone users (Nor I believe is there any other similar app that could do the job since Apple probably does not allow such a service to run in the background)

The only viable solutions are either for JRemote to get a much needed upgrade to use the already included volume information in our databases (If you have run analysis on your audio files) or sadly to use an app from a different company.

I for one would really like to use JRemote.

Carl

There is another option - switch to Android devices. Not to sound facetious, but the main driving factor for my switch to Android a couple of years ago was the ability to use BubbleUPNP and a couple of other apps, and BubbleUPNP was right at the top of the list. A great app. I still own an iPad Mini that I'll switch when I'm ready to upgrade but I've slowly extricated myself from iOS and couldnt be happier. I realize that's a big step if you're heavily invested in Apple products.

By the way, love the reference to the greatest prog rock bands of the 70s and 80s (Yes and Rush) and today (Porcupine Tree). I just wish Steven Wilson would get the band back together and give us more PT.

jctcom · « **Reply #39 on:** July 29, 2016, 12:14:17 pm »

Quote from: scolumbo on July 29, 2016, 12:05:15 pm

There is another option - switch to Android devices. Not to sound facetious, but the main driving factor for my switch to Android a couple of years ago was the ability to use BubbleUPNP and a couple of other apps, and BubbleUPNP was right at the top of the list. A great app. I still own an iPad Mini that I'll switch when I'm ready to upgrade but I've slowly extricated myself from iOS and couldnt be happier. I realize that's a big step if you're heavily invested in Apple products.

By the way, love the reference to the greatest prog rock bands of the 70s and 80s (Yes and Rush) and today (Porcupine Tree). I just wish Steven Wilson would get the band back together and give us more PT.

I have a couple of android tablets and have a lot of friends with android phones. I have to say even with the apple restrictions the apps on the iphone are far superior to those on android and far more stable. I have yet to see an android phone that runs as fast and reliably as my iPhone 6S (Or my i5 before that or the i4 and i3 before that). So aside from the iphone apps that I use on a daily basis that are not available on android just for speed, reliability and the far superior apps available on the iPhone in general I would not go to an Android phone.

Carl

JimH · « **Reply #40 on:** July 29, 2016, 12:18:17 pm »

Quote from: jctcom on July 29, 2016, 12:14:17 pm

I have yet to see an android phone that runs as fast and reliably as my iPhone 6S (Or my i5 before that or the i4 and i3 before that).

Horse feathers.

jctcom · « **Reply #41 on:** July 29, 2016, 12:55:30 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 29, 2016, 12:18:17 pm

Horse feathers.

Hey I'm not a mac person per se. Don't own one and probably never will. But I love my iPhone aside from the attempts of Apple to force me to use iTunes etc...

Carl

JimH · « **Reply #42 on:** July 29, 2016, 01:14:58 pm »

It's all good.

scolumbo · « **Reply #43 on:** July 29, 2016, 04:23:43 pm »

Didn't really mean to start an iOS vs. Android debate. There are people that love one or the other, and I appreciate that everyone has a choice. Me, I'll never go back to the walled garden iOS ecosystem.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Volume leveling via Gizmo/jremote (Read 15751 times)

defenz0r

defenz0r