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[murray]

Guys ever since I moved from Kodi to JR I've had a really frustrating on-going problem....
It doesn't happen every time but its hit and miss, maybe 50% of the time.

As some know I make up play lists of video files (2 channel PCM) that I attach to the front of our BD features for our film club.

As they sail through they appear as input two channel PCM on the front panel of my Processor, all good, then this changes to whatever the feature is....HD audio, DD, DTS, Atmos, etc etc...
This is how it should be and I'm happy when it is, but then out of the blue sometimes one of the PCM 2 channel files gets locked into 7.1 channel input, WTF!!!!
When this happens its terrible as the dialog wont come from the centre channel through the upmixer on my AVR
Why this happens I have no idea, Ive spent months and months trying to figure it out but there is NO way I can get it back from 7.1 to 2 channel PCM manually...
The only way I can is to stop the show and reboot the PC with JRiver...
But even then Im not 100% guaranteed it wont happen on the next time round...
Its all very hit and miss....

Mind you when I have an audience I cant stop the show and reboot JR, I just have to let it sail through with dialog coming from the L + R channels only!

I have tried everything to correct it on the fly, so be prepared with my answers, Ive done it and it doesn't work!

It has to be something in JR that doesn't like the mix of PCM content in the playlists I use....

Im on HDMI Wasapi and always use the dolby upmixer for content so the dialog comes from the front centre channel.
I have DSP set to source channels, Ive tried set to 2 channels but that doesn't fix the problem and also when a 5.1 PCM comes on the dialog channel is missing.. so source channels is the best here...

I just don't get it, how on earth can a two channels PCM file change from 2 channels on the input of my AVR to 7.1 occasionally, JR is doing it but how???

Im hoping someone here might point me in the right direction as Ive spent months with this issue trying to get the answer myself...
It never happened when I was using Kodi so I know its not anything else in the chain.... Im sure a setting in JR must be out

Thanks guys for reading...
I hope you can help me

[blgentry]

You probably don't want to be using "Source number of channels".  Instead, you should set it to the actual number of channels that your AVR and speakers have.  I.E., if you have a 7.1 setup, set it to 7.1.  MC should then output 2 channel sources through L and R as expected, but in a 7.1 channel container.  Your AVR will probably show 7.1 PCM, but only the L & R will play since the others are "empty".

Brian.

[murray]

ok never tried that one. Will do some more testing and report back.

[murray]

You probably don't want to be using "Source number of channels".  Instead, you should set it to the actual number of channels that your AVR and speakers have.  I.E., if you have a 7.1 setup, set it to 7.1.  MC should then output 2 channel sources through L and R as expected, but in a 7.1 channel container.  Your AVR will probably show 7.1 PCM, but only the L & R will play since the others are "empty".

Brian.

No Brian it doesn't work like that I just tested it!
Setting DSP to 7.1 kills the centre channel dialog on 2 channel PCM.
The only way I can get the dolby upmixer to anchor dialog to the centre channel on 2 channel material is to set DSP to 2 channel or source channels, but as you know I have the "other" intermittent problem when set that way!

[blgentry]

Well, MC is actually doing exactly what it's supposed to.  It's sending 2 channel as L and R in a 7.1 (or 5.1?) container. 

But you want L and R to be mixed into C for some reason.  I guess kind of like a Dolby Pro Logic II type setup, so you can have center channel dialog and sort of get the L and R effects from the L and R speakers too.  I think your AVR needs to handle this task.

What happens when you try to engage Dolby Pro Logic II or other simulated surround processing on your AVR?

Which AVR do you have?

Brian.

[murray]

Well, MC is actually doing exactly what it's supposed to.  It's sending 2 channel as L and R in a 7.1 (or 5.1?) container. 

But you want L and R to be mixed into C for some reason.  I guess kind of like a Dolby Pro Logic II type setup, so you can have center channel dialog and sort of get the L and R effects from the L and R speakers too.  I think your AVR needs to handle this task.

What happens when you try to engage Dolby Pro Logic II or other simulated surround processing on your AVR?

Which AVR do you have?

Brian.

Yes Brian that's exactly correct, I think we all want dialog to come from the front centre channel when playing 2 channel video material, its horrid from only the L or R speaker your sitting closest to!

But if you set DSP it to 5.1 or 7.1 the upmixer wont anchor the dialog to the centre channel via the dolby upmixer as it does when set to 2 channel or source channels. So 5.1 or 7.1 wont anchor dialog to the centre channel with the AVR upmixer, so it doesn't work as I need it to that way.

I always have my McIntosh MX1601 set to Dolby upmixer. As I said in the first post it works perfectly 50% of the time, its just that JR somehow switches the input signal from the true 2 channels PCM to 7.1 occasionally all by its self out of the blue, then I'm stuffed again.!!! When it does my dialog from the front centre channels is placed back to the L&R front speakers...YUK!!

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=hometheaterprocessors&ProductId=MX160

[blgentry]

That processor is a beast.  Too bad they don't have a product manual available.  Which is weird actually.

Anyway...

What happens when you engage JRSS mixing in Output Format?  I would expect you'd get JRiver's pseudo surround from 2 channel sources, which should light your center channel up with dialog and your surrounds with "fake" surround, a lot like dolby pro logic II.

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

As they sail through they appear as input two channel PCM on the front panel of my Processor, <snip>

I see you are confirming the output from MC using the front panel of your receiving device.

What does MC show it is outputting if, when the problem happens, you change to Standard View and check the MC Audio Path?

[murray]

That processor is a beast.  Too bad they don't have a product manual available.  Which is weird actually.

Anyway...

What happens when you engage JRSS mixing in Output Format?  I would expect you'd get JRiver's pseudo surround from 2 channel sources, which should light your center channel up with dialog and your surrounds with "fake" surround, a lot like dolby pro logic II.

Brian.

I think you might just be a genius Brain, Im not saying too much yet but it seems to be working ok like this.
I engaged JRSS and now the centre channel dialog is playing when set to 7.1

So far so good, Ive done a bit of testing and all seems to play fine on two channel files. If its always remains this way 100% of the time we (you) have fixed it!

I have also ticked volume levelling, I talk it this is for keeping all files at the same ort similar level? Mine are all over the place and I have always had to have my finger on the volume while playing the files, then only when Im on the feature can I leave... Is there anything in that area that will work in my favour of keeping one set volume for the files that I need to know about?

Also Ive set everything in sample rate to 192, is that correct and ok?

So I take it with DSP set this way as soon as I go across to any features that are DTS MA etc etc they will all still play correctly?

Thanks again Brian, I think you nailed this for me

[murray]

I see you are confirming the output from MC using the front panel of your receiving device.

What does MC show it is outputting if, when the problem happens, you change to Standard View and check the MC Audio Path?

I was told that audio path does not work and not to bother even using it when we bitstream.

[blgentry]

So far so good, Ive done a bit of testing and all seems to play fine on two channel files. If its always remains this way 100% of the time we (you) have fixed it!

Well, here's hoping that it's fixed "for good". 

I have also ticked volume levelling, I talk it this is for keeping all files at the same ort similar level? Mine are all over the place and I have always had to have my finger on the volume while playing the files, then only when Im on the feature can I leave... Is there anything in that area that will work in my favour of keeping one set volume for the files that I need to know about?

Yes:

A.  Volume leveling requires that audio analysis be run on each file you are going to level.  Right click the file and select Library Tools > Analyze Audio.  You can do these in batches if you want.
B.  Adaptive Volume , in Peak Level Normalize mode, is good to use with Volume Leveling.  It can bring back some of the gain that is lost in VL *and* still preserve dynamics.
C.  Volume Leveling does NOT WORK on bitstreamed files.  Because bitstreamed files are not touched by MC's DSP Studio.  They are bitstreamed. 

Also Ive set everything in sample rate to 192, is that correct and ok?

I wouldn't.  I'd pass everything as is, up to the rate that your DAC (Pre-pro) can handle.  Then map anything *above* it's maximum sample rate down to some lower value it can handle.  This is an area of much debate.  I think the effects are probably subtle on most systems.  Again, this feature is not used for bitstreamed content.

So I take it with DSP set this way as soon as I go across to any features that are DTS MA etc etc they will all still play correctly?

If you're bitstreaming most of your movie files, none of the DSP studio settings are used AT ALL.  It's only used for non-bitstreamed files like PCM, MP3, FLAC, etc.

Good luck with this.

Brian

[murray]

Well, here's hoping that it's fixed "for good". 

Yes:

A.  Volume leveling requires that audio analysis be run on each file you are going to level.  Right click the file and select Library Tools > Analyze Audio.  You can do these in batches if you want.
B.  Adaptive Volume , in Peak Level Normalize mode, is good to use with Volume Leveling.  It can bring back some of the gain that is lost in VL *and* still preserve dynamics.
C.  Volume Leveling does NOT WORK on bitstreamed files.  Because bitstreamed files are not touched by MC's DSP Studio.  They are bitstreamed. 

I wouldn't.  I'd pass everything as is, up to the rate that your DAC (Pre-pro) can handle.  Then map anything *above* it's maximum sample rate down to some lower value it can handle.  This is an area of much debate.  I think the effects are probably subtle on most systems.  Again, this feature is not used for bitstreamed content.

If you're bitstreaming most of your movie files, none of the DSP studio settings are used AT ALL.  It's only used for non-bitstreamed files like PCM, MP3, FLAC, etc.

Good luck with this.

Brian

Brian do I use Flat Line Overflows or Clip Protection on Vol Levelling and Adaptive Vol?

[blgentry]

Brian do I use Flat Line Overflows or Clip Protection on Vol Levelling and Adaptive Vol?

That setting is "global" to the DSP studio.  It's not part of VL or AV.  Clip Protection is the recommended setting.  But it probably doesn't matter at all in your case because you probably aren't using equalization or anything else that would raise the gain up past the 0 dB point.

Clip Protection is really designed for when you accidentally add a lot of boost, which would overflow the internal math, resulting in a digitally clipped signal, which sounds really, really awful.  Clip Protection helps make it sound much better when those problems occur.

Brian.

[mattkhan]

I was told that audio path does not work and not to bother even using it when we bitstream.

You are using jrss though which means you cannot be bitstreaming (if jrss is active that is)

[murray]

You are using jrss though which means you cannot be bitstreaming (if jrss is active that is)

Understand, but I'm only using PCM on all the files I use, when I change to BDs I'm bitstreaming and no longer using JRSS. So it looks like I can only use audio path on the video files when Im not bitstreaming.

[murray]

That setting is "global" to the DSP studio.  It's not part of VL or AV.  Clip Protection is the recommended setting.  But it probably doesn't matter at all in your case because you probably aren't using equalization or anything else that would raise the gain up past the 0 dB point.

Clip Protection is really designed for when you accidentally add a lot of boost, which would overflow the internal math, resulting in a digitally clipped signal, which sounds really, really awful.  Clip Protection helps make it sound much better when those problems occur.

Brian.

Brian everything has been working great on the help you gave me in my original post, thank you so much!

But as we moved onto the volume levelling on my mixed PCM media I want to try and perfect this. I have done everything you said including audio analysis first of all the PCM files, but still Im having to up the volume on some files up to 5db to match with the rest. The volume levelling doesn't seem to work perfectly matching the levels of all media files.... Have you ever tested this yourself?

This would be a dream come true if it worked as you say and all my mixed media files ended up with the same audio level, but still they don't...

Do we have this set up correctly?
Have you verified that it actually works as advertised?

I hope we can resolve this...

[blgentry]

Brian everything has been working great on the help you gave me in my original post, thank you so much!

That's great news.  I'm happy I was able to help you get to a solution. 

But as we moved onto the volume levelling on my mixed PCM media I want to try and perfect this. I have done everything you said including audio analysis first of all the PCM files, but still Im having to up the volume on some files up to 5db to match with the rest. The volume levelling doesn't seem to work perfectly matching the levels of all media files.... Have you ever tested this yourself?

I've used Volume Leveling and Adaptive Volume extensively with Audio only content (not video).  It works quite well with audio.

With video, I'm honestly not very sure how well it works.  Video content tends to be much more dynamic, because of the nature of video.  You might have dialog one moment and an explosion a minute later.  What's the proper level for that?  The answer is, something that makes the explosion not overload (clip) and keeps the average level where it's supposed to be.  Which probably means that the dialog is going to be rather low by comparison

The other thing is, with video, there may be more than one audio track in the video file.  I believe that Analyze Audio is smart enough to pick the last active track you were playing, but again, I'm not 100% sure of that.  Of course, we come back to bitstreaming again too:  Anything you bitstream will NOT be processed by Volume Leveling.  So comparing the level of a DTS (bitstreamed) file with a PCM file isn't valid.  Because one will be bitstreamed and the other will be volume leveled by MC's DSP Studio.

If your average listening level is fairly low, as opposed to "movie theater volume level", you might want to reduce the dynamics of your video tracks using Adaptive Volume > Night Mode .  This will bring the low level content UP in volume, while keeping the loud stuff loud.  I do this sometimes with video content when I don't want to listen loud and the loud parts are jarring, or unpleasant.  It's as easy as clicking the box to turn it on and off.  (Though it does take 10 to 15 seconds to kick in or turn off).

Maybe someone else will have more to say about Volume Leveling with video.  Or maybe you can start another thread to focus on just that.

Good luck.

Brian.

[murray]

That's great news.  I'm happy I was able to help you get to a solution. 

I've used Volume Leveling and Adaptive Volume extensively with Audio only content (not video).  It works quite well with audio.

With video, I'm honestly not very sure how well it works.  Video content tends to be much more dynamic, because of the nature of video.  You might have dialog one moment and an explosion a minute later.  What's the proper level for that?  The answer is, something that makes the explosion not overload (clip) and keeps the average level where it's supposed to be.  Which probably means that the dialog is going to be rather low by comparison

The other thing is, with video, there may be more than one audio track in the video file.  I believe that Analyze Audio is smart enough to pick the last active track you were playing, but again, I'm not 100% sure of that.  Of course, we come back to bitstreaming again too:  Anything you bitstream will NOT be processed by Volume Leveling.  So comparing the level of a DTS (bitstreamed) file with a PCM file isn't valid.  Because one will be bitstreamed and the other will be volume leveled by MC's DSP Studio.

If your average listening level is fairly low, as opposed to "movie theater volume level", you might want to reduce the dynamics of your video tracks using Adaptive Volume > Night Mode .  This will bring the low level content UP in volume, while keeping the loud stuff loud.  I do this sometimes with video content when I don't want to listen loud and the loud parts are jarring, or unpleasant.  It's as easy as clicking the box to turn it on and off.  (Though it does take 10 to 15 seconds to kick in or turn off).

Maybe someone else will have more to say about Volume Leveling with video.  Or maybe you can start another thread to focus on just that.

Good luck.

Brian.

Tell me, if I don't like it and want to turn it off, I obviously un tick both boxes, but what about the files that were run through Analyse?
Has the audio been changed in level for all time on those that were run through Analyse?

[blgentry]

Tell me, if I don't like it and want to turn it off, I obviously un tick both boxes, but what about the files that were run through Analyse?
Has the audio been changed in level for all time on those that were run through Analyse?

No the audio isn't changed.  This is another example of the MC developers doing it the right way; the smart way.  When you run analyze audio, MC computes some volume levels, peak levels, and other things.  Those values are stored in the metadata for those files.  Take a look at the Volume Level tag for an example.  MC uses those on playback *if* you have Volume Leveling turned on.  If not, it doesn't use those values for anything.  Like I said, smart. 

Brian.

[murray]

No the audio isn't changed.  This is another example of the MC developers doing it the right way; the smart way.  When you run analyze audio, MC computes some volume levels, peak levels, and other things.  Those values are stored in the metadata for those files.  Take a look at the Volume Level tag for an example.  MC uses those on playback *if* you have Volume Leveling turned on.  If not, it doesn't use those values for anything.  Like I said, smart. 

Brian.

Brilliant that is very clever!

You wont believe it Brian...
You know that problem I had with MC not playing the mono single channel features when placed in the playlist, it works now since I made those changes yesterday to 7.1 and JRSS, unbelievable!

[blgentry]

Hey that's great to hear too!  Glad it's all working out for you.

Brian.

[murray]

Hey that's great to hear too!  Glad it's all working out for you.

Brian.

I think the volume levelling seems to be working absolutely fine on music but the levels are still all over the place on video files PCM.
Maybe I should start a new thread and see if anyone else uses it on video...

[murray]

Hey that's great to hear too!  Glad it's all working out for you.

Brian.

Im sorry to report this still doesn't work as after more testing...

Its exactly the same as it always was, mono films play fine as long as they are not in a playlist of two channel material before them.
As soon as I have any two channel files before a main feature that's mono single channel (centre) when it gets to the feature the audio is dead! Its always been this way for me and continues with the new changes to DSP.

The only way I can get mono films to play in a playlist of mixed content is to re rip it and change it from mono to 2 channel stereo in the rip from Tipard BD Converter. Its a real pain and very time consuming going through this double rip setup...

You wont believe it Brian...
You know that problem I had with MC not playing the mono single channel features when placed in the playlist, it works now since I made those changes yesterday to 7.1 and JRSS, unbelievable!

[blgentry]

^ I'm sorry to hear that.

Am I understanding that these are BVMV files?  Raw BluRay structures?  Or are you playing from MKV files?  If you're using BDMVs or ISOs, in my opinion that's where your problem is.

Brian.

[murray]

^ I'm sorry to hear that.

Am I understanding that these are BVMV files?  Raw BluRay structures?  Or are you playing from MKV files?  If you're using BDMVs or ISOs, in my opinion that's where your problem is.

Brian.

They are mkv mono feature films BD

[blgentry]

Ok, glad they are MKVs.  Are you bitstreaming them, or letting MC decode them to PCM to pass to your pre-pro?

Brian.

[murray]

Ok, glad they are MKVs.  Are you bitstreaming them, or letting MC decode them to PCM to pass to your pre-pro?

Brian.

I am bitstreaming all the mono single channel feature films, the same as I do with all the features be they DTS MA, Atmos etc etc..... Only the files I play in the playlist before the features are using MC as they are all PCM.

As long as the features that are bitstreamed have more than one single channel they change perfectly from the PCM files in the playlist to the main feature. If that main feature is single channel mono, they arrive with NO audio. If I stop and restart just the feature from the playlist I have audio

The only way I cen get these mono mkv features to play from a playlist with mixed video files before them is to re rip the feature and convert it into two channel audio.

[blgentry]

Try turning off bitstreaming as a test.  I have a funny feeling this might have something to do with it.

Brian.

[murray]

Try turning off bitstreaming as a test.  I have a funny feeling this might have something to do with it.

Brian.

Ok this is strange...

The mono feature I told you yesterday that worked at the end of the playlist was DTS MA Mono single channel (this never worked in the past until yesterday since we made the DSP change to 7.1). I just tested it again and again in the playlist with PCM files before it and it works every time. WOW that part does work! So this feature is bitstreamed, correct?

But this doesn't....

The other one that wont play is The Searchers which is Dolby Digital Mono 1 channel only. This is the playlist that threw me out thinking I had made a mistake yesterday saying that all was now working.... Well Dolby Digital Mono 1 channel BD ripped feature wont play audio at the end of a playlist with video files PCM infront.

Whats up with this???
Looks like DTS MA mono will play audio but Dolby Digital mono wont when in a playlist.
Of course both play fine when not in a playlist!

Is the Dolby Digital feature being bitstreamed like the DTD MA mono film?

I don't get it??

[RoderickGI]

I've been reading along and have some questions Murray.

How do you switch from using MC JRSS/DSP on the preliminary two channel videos to Bitstreaming on the mono feature films?
There are a couple of options, but I'm wondering how you have set that up, and how you think MC switches.

When you say that the preliminary two channel videos are PCM, what format are they actually in?
If JRSS/DSP is being used, and MC is doing the audio decoding, ALL audio sent from MC is in PCM format. So I'm wondering if that is what you are seeing, or if you actually have files with PCM stored in them. MediaInfo is a good tool to see what is actually in the files.

Have you tried looking at the MC Audio Path display while the playlist transitions from the preliminary two channel video to a mono single channel feature film?
I haven't Bitstreamed audio for a long time, but I think the Audio Path will show when audio is being Bitstreamed, and will show what MC is doing to the audio when it is not Bitstreamed. You could find some hints in that display. Compare what you see when using a playlist to when playing the individual files.

By the way, you may have an actual bug here. There have been some discussions about mixed format playlists in the past. Unfortunately I can't remember the outcome of those discussions. Search is your friend.

[murray]

I've been reading along and have some questions Murray.

How do you switch from using MC JRSS/DSP on the preliminary two channel videos to Bitstreaming on the mono feature films?
There are a couple of options, but I'm wondering how you have set that up, and how you think MC switches.

When you say that the preliminary two channel videos are PCM, what format are they actually in?
If JRSS/DSP is being used, and MC is doing the audio decoding, ALL audio sent from MC is in PCM format. So I'm wondering if that is what you are seeing, or if you actually have files with PCM stored in them. MediaInfo is a good tool to see what is actually in the files.

Have you tried looking at the MC Audio Path display while the playlist transitions from the preliminary two channel video to a mono single channel feature film?
I haven't Bitstreamed audio for a long time, but I think the Audio Path will show when audio is being Bitstreamed, and will show what MC is doing to the audio when it is not Bitstreamed. You could find some hints in that display. Compare what you see when using a playlist to when playing the individual files.

By the way, you may have an actual bug here. There have been some discussions about mixed format playlists in the past. Unfortunately I can't remember the outcome of those discussions. Search is your friend.

I don't do any switching between the 2 channel video files that are playing through MC to bitstreaming for the feature films DTS MA etc etc..
I was told that the bitstreaming that I have turned on only bitstreams when I play the BD features and when the video files are playing DSP and MC then take over and no longer bitstreaming is working, is that wrong?

[murray]

I've been reading along and have some questions Murray.

How do you switch from using MC JRSS/DSP on the preliminary two channel videos to Bitstreaming on the mono feature films?
There are a couple of options, but I'm wondering how you have set that up, and how you think MC switches.

When you say that the preliminary two channel videos are PCM, what format are they actually in?
If JRSS/DSP is being used, and MC is doing the audio decoding, ALL audio sent from MC is in PCM format. So I'm wondering if that is what you are seeing, or if you actually have files with PCM stored in them. MediaInfo is a good tool to see what is actually in the files.

Have you tried looking at the MC Audio Path display while the playlist transitions from the preliminary two channel video to a mono single channel feature film?
I haven't Bitstreamed audio for a long time, but I think the Audio Path will show when audio is being Bitstreamed, and will show what MC is doing to the audio when it is not Bitstreamed. You could find some hints in that display. Compare what you see when using a playlist to when playing the individual files.

By the way, you may have an actual bug here. There have been some discussions about mixed format playlists in the past. Unfortunately I can't remember the outcome of those discussions. Search is your friend.

Oh dear I thought that all my video files played through DSP when I have bitstream ticked and the only video that was bitstreamed was my ripped BDs
So it looks like since I have bitstreamed ticked Im not even using DSP for video files, if that's the case why does making any adjustments within it affect the audio of my video files.

Ive been checking the audio path of my files even though someone else told me the audio path doesn't work when you are bitstreaming....Gee I wish I knew what was the truth here...

This is the audio path of one of my files, they all read the same as this.

The top one is Cassablanca DTS MA Mono 1 channel. This one is obvious its bitstreamed as it states no changes made.



The bottom one is just one of my video files. This I think is bitstreamed as it states Wasapii, but then the rest of the text is unclear to me..
I hope you can see the two jpgs as Im unsure if the system is working as it operates quite different to other forums..

[RoderickGI]

I'll have to get back to this later but immediately obvious:

1. Your first image shows an eight channel video file being played using DTS format, which is being Bitstreamed to your audio processor for decoding. Note that MC doesn't say it is DTS MA, which I think it would if it actually was DTS MA and not just DTS. Also, if this is really a mono video, it appears that the audio is being packed in an eight channel wrapper, which could mean the audio isn't on the channel MC is expecting, which is possibly why you get no audio, except I would expect that to happen if you played the file directly or through a playlist.
2. Your second image shows a two channel video file with AAC audio in it, not PCM. The audio is being decoded by MC to PCM and up mixed to eight channels for transport to your audio processor. WASAPI doesn't mean it is being Bitstreamed. It isn't.

Post a picture of your settings in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming and Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom. These are the only two places that you would have Bitstreaming set up, as you said in your earlier thread on this topic that you don't have Zones or Zoneswitch turned on.

Again, you should watch to see what happens in Audio Path when your playlist switches from the preliminary two channel video to a mono single channel feature film.

Also, download MediaInfo as I suggested and have a look at what it reports is in those files.

[murray]

I'll have to get back to this later but immediately obvious:

1. Your first image shows an eight channel video file being played using DTS format, which is being Bitstreamed to your audio processor for decoding. Note that MC doesn't say it is DTS MA, which I think it would if it actually was DTS MA and not just DTS. Also, if this is really a mono video, it appears that the audio is being packed in an eight channel wrapper, which could mean the audio isn't on the channel MC is expecting, which is possibly why you get no audio, except I would expect that to happen if you played the file directly or through a playlist.
2. Your second image shows a two channel video file with AAC audio in it, not PCM. The audio is being decoded by MC to PCM and up mixed to eight channels for transport to your audio processor. WASAPI doesn't mean it is being Bitstreamed. It isn't.

Post a picture of your settings in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming and Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom. These are the only two places that you would have Bitstreaming set up, as you said in your earlier thread on this topic that you don't have Zones or Zoneswitch turned on.

Again, you should watch to see what happens in Audio Path when your playlist switches from the preliminary two channel video to a mono single channel feature film.

Also, download MediaInfo as I suggested and have a look at what it reports is in those files.

We changed DSP the other day to 7.1 channels and JRSS, after Brian suggested to do so. I original had it on Source channels and no upmixing downmixing...

Here are my settings

[RoderickGI]

Okay, but do you have anything set in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom?

Settings there can change the way certain audio types are handled. i.e. Selected types can be Bitstreamed, while everything else isn't.

I was told that the bitstreaming that I have turned on only bitstreams when I play the BD features and when the video files are playing DSP and MC then take over and no longer bitstreaming is working, is that wrong?

I think this could be correct, as the settings in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom will show those audio formats that will be Bitstreamed. It is possible that other formats will be handled by MC DSP and JRSS, but that may only be true if something is selected in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom. I haven't tested, as I stopped using Bitstreaming.

Do you have (or can you find) a link to where you were told the above?

You can test all this simply by turning Bitstreaming off and checking the Audio Path, then on again and check the Audio Path (stopping and restarting playback in between of course). Also, please check the actual file formats you are using with Media Info. The source files may not be what you think they are.

BTW, Brian's suggestion was perfectly valid, and that is why you two channel video is being up mixed to eight channels (7.1) now. So was his suggestion to turn off Bitstreaming. I decided long ago that MC does the same or a better job than my receiver in decoding audio, so there was no need for Bitstreaming. Let MC decode all audio and send PCM to your processor, then let it do the DA Conversion and playback. Bitstreaming does not provide better audio when using MC. You can still apply any effects you want in your processor to PCM sources, so you do not lose anything by turning off Bitstreaming.

[murray]

Okay, but do you have anything set in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom?

Settings there can change the way certain audio types are handled. i.e. Selected types can be Bitstreamed, while everything else isn't.

I think this could be correct, as the settings in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom will show those audio formats that will be Bitstreamed. It is possible that other formats will be handled by MC DSP and JRSS, but that may only be true if something is selected in Options>Audio>Settings>Bitstreaming>Custom. I haven't tested, as I stopped using Bitstreaming.

Do you have (or can you find) a link to where you were told the above?

You can test all this simply by turning Bitstreaming off and checking the Audio Path, then on again and check the Audio Path (stopping and restarting playback in between of course). Also, please check the actual file formats you are using with Media Info. The source files may not be what you think they are.

BTW, Brian's suggestion was perfectly valid, and that is why you two channel video is being up mixed to eight channels (7.1) now. So was his suggestion to turn off Bitstreaming. I decided long ago that MC does the same or a better job than my receiver in decoding audio, so there was no need for Bitstreaming. Let MC decode all audio and send PCM to your processor, then let it do the DA Conversion and playback. Bitstreaming does not provide better audio when using MC. You can still apply any effects you want in your processor to PCM sources, so you do not lose anything by turning off Bitstreaming.

I am not using bitstreaming custom. I have checked in there and everything is ticked except the last box which I think is DOP???

If I turn off bitstreaming will my Atmos BDs still work, I thought Atmos would only work if bitstreamed?
Im happy to run without bitstreaming even though my AVR wont light up the flashy lights for all the audio formats...
If it works better for me and plays everything correctly then I would rather not use bitstreaming...

Why can bitstreaming be a problem at times, and why did you stop using it?

[RoderickGI]

ATMOS would be one of the few reasons to use Bitstreaming, as MC doesn't decode ATMOS at this time, and may never do it because of licencing. You have introduced a new requirement there. How many ATMOS BDs do you have? Are they an exception, to be handled that way, or common in your collection?

You could, however, probably use Custom Bitstream settings, or zones and Zoneswitch, to handle any ATMOS BDs.

I stopped using Bitstreaming because it added no value, meant I had to set up room correction on my receiver which is a lot more fiddley than in MC, and in general MC is easier to manage audio effects and view the result. After all, I have a whole screen to see what is going on, rather than just a few lines of LCD display. If you Bitstream all audio processing must happen on your processor. All effects, room correction, volume (although some volume functions in MC work with Bitstreaming these days, I believe), etc. It is just easier on a PC.

Time to watch a playlist transition in Audio Path to see what is different between using a playlist and playing the files individually. If you find there is a real, reproducible problem, then the developers may look at it. You would have to provide more information about the files types you are playing though, both for the preliminary videos and the features.

[blgentry]

My suggestion to turn off bitstreaming is just a test.  Until we know if it fixes the problem, there's probably no need to analyze all of the various implications and configurations.  Just turn it off and test it.  If it works, then we can get more detailed with the configuration.  If the problem remains, then we can be pretty sure that bitstreaming isn't part of the problem.

Brian.

[murray]

My suggestion to turn off bitstreaming is just a test.  Until we know if it fixes the problem, there's probably no need to analyze all of the various implications and configurations.  Just turn it off and test it.  If it works, then we can get more detailed with the configuration.  If the problem remains, then we can be pretty sure that bitstreaming isn't part of the problem.

Brian.

Brian I have been testing it with bitstream OFF last night and this morning, it seems much more stable and the mono films are playing 100% of the time now when in a playlist of mixed video files. Before with bitstreaming it was hit and miss on mono films in a playlist would only play audio 60% of the time, why on earth it would wander like this is a mystery!

So at this point in time I would be happy to run without bitstreaming but it is a worry about my Atmos films
Plus how do I ever really know if Im getting the full DTS MA, Dolby True HD, 5.1 or 7.1, the lights on the front of my Mac are all messed up without bitstreaming ON???

With all those settings within DSP Im not sure what to use if Im to no longer bitstream...
I have a 13.1 setup including Atmos and Auro 3D, I still want to be able to switch to bitstream to play those films through all my ceiling speakers...

Slowly learning and finding new ways of doing things....
Sometimes difficult to change when Ive been bitstreaming since day 1!

But if it works better for me and plays my playlists in a much more reliable way Im happy, even without the pretty lights on the front of my Mac.

[blgentry]

I'm happy to hear that you've made some progress by disabling bitstreaming.  I'm going to let someone else tackle your various questions about not bitstreaming and it's various implications.  Roderick or another member here likely has some good advice based on good experience.

I will say that Atmos is a special case, and you may want to individually tag your Atmos movies and then set up a special zone to play just those files, using bitstreaming.

Again, glad to hear that things are working more reliably. 

Brian.

[murray]

I'm happy to hear that you've made some progress by disabling bitstreaming.  I'm going to let someone else tackle your various questions about not bitstreaming and it's various implications.  Roderick or another member here likely has some good advice based on good experience.

I will say that Atmos is a special case, and you may want to individually tag your Atmos movies and then set up a special zone to play just those files, using bitstreaming.

Again, glad to hear that things are working more reliably. 

Brian.

Thanks for that Brian, yes it does seem to be more reliable playing my mixed files and mono single channel material in playlists, why I have no idea.
I hope some of the others here can help me set it up for the best audio settings...

[murray]

Can someone here help me please to setup my system to non bitstream for all content then to switch to bitstream for Atmos films?

[RoderickGI]

I would love to help, but I don't have anywhere near the audio setup you do, so I could only suggest ideas and not test them. Hopefully someone will come along with some experience with Zoneswitch and ATMOS.

But a search of the forum finds many discussions on ATMOS. Go through those threads and see what you can learn. Here is a simple one, reinforcing what has already been said here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,105848.msg736431.html#msg736431 which leads to this: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101018.0.html which leads to this: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,76605.0.html

You could try using Custom settings for Bitstreaming, to just Bitstream Dolby TrueHD, and see if that works for all your caes, particularly with your mono feature films. But I suspect that your mono feature films have the one audio channel imbedded in a 7.1 container, and if that is Dolby TrueHD, you wil still see the original problem.

If your original issue was resolved then your original solution of Bitstreaming everything, or just Dolby TrueHD, would work. If you could provide small sample versions of the video files that produce the original problem, uploaded to a web site we can download from like OneDrive or GoogleDrive, we still may be able to solve the original problem.

But for the moment, look at the solutions others have used for ATMOS.

[murray]

I would love to help, but I don't have anywhere near the audio setup you do, so I could only suggest ideas and not test them. Hopefully someone will come along with some experience with Zoneswitch and ATMOS.

But a search of the forum finds many discussions on ATMOS. Go through those threads and see what you can learn. Here is a simple one, reinforcing what has already been said here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,105848.msg736431.html#msg736431 which leads to this: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101018.0.html which leads to this: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,76605.0.html

You could try using Custom settings for Bitstreaming, to just Bitstream Dolby TrueHD, and see if that works for all your caes, particularly with your mono feature films. But I suspect that your mono feature films have the one audio channel imbedded in a 7.1 container, and if that is Dolby TrueHD, you wil still see the original problem.

If your original issue was resolved then your original solution of Bitstreaming everything, or just Dolby TrueHD, would work. If you could provide small sample versions of the video files that produce the original problem, uploaded to a web site we can download from like OneDrive or GoogleDrive, we still may be able to solve the original problem.

But for the moment, look at the solutions others have used for ATMOS.

The mono problem BD rips is fixed when I have bitstreaming turned off, that's sorted...
Just need to find a way that Atmos films will bitstream by themselves...
I will go to custom and just tick Dolby TrueHD and DTD MA if they are both in there and report back...

Thanks for trying anyway.... I will take a read of these other links...

I bought MC22 weeks ago but have never downloaded it, will it play Atmos?

[murray]

Guys Im still trying to find someone here to help me setup how to bitstream only for Atmos films or Dolby True HD and DTS MA. Then I want everything below these formats just on PCM and no bitstreaming.

Ive tested setting custom to just only bitstream True HD and DTS MA only ticked, but still everything is plaing in 7.1 PCM.

Im sure there is a way that the HD tracks can be detected automatically but so far I cant figure out how to do this...
There must be someone here who can help me, please....
Pretty please.....

[blgentry]

Ive tested setting custom to just only bitstream True HD and DTS MA only ticked, but still everything is plaing in 7.1 PCM.

That *should* work.  After you change that setting, stop MC, then restart it.  Make sure the setting is still set.  Then test again.  You might have to explicitly select the DTS-HD or Dolby True HD audio track in your movie files.  MC will remember the last track you selected, so you only have to do it once per movie.

Brian.

[murray]

That *should* work.  After you change that setting, stop MC, then restart it.  Make sure the setting is still set.  Then test again.  You might have to explicitly select the DTS-HD or Dolby True HD audio track in your movie files.  MC will remember the last track you selected, so you only have to do it once per movie.

Brian.

Sorry but that still doesn't detect them and still they play in PCM, the HD tracks are all automatically ticked and verified as on.

[RoderickGI]

My understanding is that MC still can't, and probably won't ever, play ATMOS audio. It is a licencing thing.

If MC is detecting and selecting any DTS-HD or Dolby True HD audio streams in the movie, as shown by the Audio Path and the right click on a playing movie and selecting Streams in the menu, and MC is still playing PCM to your processor, then something is wrong.

As I said above, with my current setup I can't test if that function is working. Sorry. Hopefully someone who can test that function will come along and help.

Otherwise, the Zones solution I mentioned above, as described in the threads I linked to, should work. Maybe have another look at that as an alternative.

[murray]

My understanding is that MC still can't, and probably won't ever, play ATMOS audio. It is a licencing thing.

If MC is detecting and selecting any DTS-HD or Dolby True HD audio streams in the movie, as shown by the Audio Path and the right click on a playing movie and selecting Streams in the menu, and MC is still playing PCM to your processor, then something is wrong.

As I said above, with my current setup I can't test if that function is working. Sorry. Hopefully someone who can test that function will come along and help.

Otherwise, the Zones solution I mentioned above, as described in the threads I linked to, should work. Maybe have another look at that as an alternative.

MC is still playing PCM when DTS-HD and Dolby True HD when Ive selected bitstream with just the HD audio tracks selected.
Is it because I have DSP 7.1 selected?

[RoderickGI]

I don't know. It shouldn't be. Test it and see.