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[HiFiTubes]

Still using MC after all these years, and it is sounding great with SoX, but I have a problem with my Auralic Vega DAC in that it won't do DSD256 after an upgrade Auralic performed.

I'm using the same DSDx4 ASIO settings with no DOP switch that works on my iFi iDSD DAC (which even does DSDX8 via ASIO). I should note the zone I use in the screenshots, Vega PCM2DSD works fine using DoP at DSD128 (DSDx2). I've tried turning Bitstreaming to None as well.

I can't seem to find any other users of the Vega who did the paid upgrade.

When I send DSD256 via PCM2DSD to the Vega it flashes "DSD256" until MC errors out. Seems like MC is sending the right stuff....?

Can someone help me rule out MC?

I've put the following screenshots (the bottom two reflect success with iFi @ DSDx8) into the MC log zip which can be found here:






thanks!
Dr. C

[blgentry]

The settings you have shown will convert PCM to DSD.  It will also convert DSD to PCM and then back to DSD for output.  This is probably not what you want.   Converting from PCM to DSD wouldn't seem to have any benefit.  Converting from DSD to PCM and back to DSD again is a lossy operation: You lose information along the way.

Is this what you are trying to do?  Convert everything to DSD (4x) ?  I can understand wanting to play native DSD as DSD.  Converting to DSD doesn't make much sense to me.

Brian.

[HiFiTubes]

The settings you have shown will convert PCM to DSD.  It will also convert DSD to PCM and then back to DSD for output.  This is probably not what you want.   Converting from PCM to DSD wouldn't seem to have any benefit.  Converting from DSD to PCM and back to DSD again is a lossy operation: You lose information along the way.

Is this what you are trying to do?  Convert everything to DSD (4x) ?  I can understand wanting to play native DSD as DSD.  Converting to DSD doesn't make much sense to me.

Brian.

No, with these settings native DSD is played natively. PCM will get PCM>DSD treatment.

[blgentry]

^ With Output Encoding set to DSD, your DSD files will first be converted to PCM.  Then they will be converted from PCM to 4xDSD.

MC's DSP engine only operates on PCM.  It can't convert DSD to 4xDSD directly.  It has to go through PCM in the middle.

You are correct that regular PCM will be converted to 4xDSD.

Output Encoding is an often misunderstood and misused feature.  It shouldn't be used in most circumstances.

I'm not 100% sure what happens if you try to combine this with bitstreaming DSD.  Maybe bitstreaming would allow 1x, 2x DSD to pass through untouched, while PCM would get converted to 4xDSD.  I'm really not sure.

Brian.

[HiFiTubes]

I'm only trying to convert PCM to DSD.

MC ignores native DSD if you have your output Encoding set to "DSD". At least it used to.

That is my understanding, maybe someone at JRiver can confirm.

[HiFiTubes]

My PCM2DSD zone is set to DSD128.

If I play DSD64 files they are not upsampled to DSD128. I would not want them to be for the reasons you mentioned. This is with DoP using the Vega DAC.

This does not work the same way when using the iFi DAC which does not use DoP for DSD512, it fails when you play any DSD <512.

I remember Matt mentioned MC would ignore any DSD conversion when using this feature...

[blgentry]

Do you have bitstreaming turned on for DSD?

Brian.

[HiFiTubes]

Do you have bitstreaming turned on for DSD?

Brian.

For the iFi Bitstreaming set to either None or DSD general DSD playback works ok.

For the Vega when I use Bitstreaming I see the pass through you mentioned and no conversion. If I turn it off, I see the PCM input. Thanks! This is interesting. Too bad MC is not configure in a way to let you convert native PCM to DSD and then play DSD at it's native format.

I still can't figure what I am doing wrong with the Vega...

[blgentry]

^ You can make MC do what you want.  You can do it with Zones.  Build a DSD only zone, with bitstreaming turned on and Output Encoding turned OFF.  Set that zone to only play DSD.

Now build a PCM zone.  Set it with bitstreaming off, and Output Encoding to 4xDSD (or whatever your target is).  Set this zone to engage with PCM audio.

Now when you double click on DSD, it should go to the DSD zone.  Double click on PCM and it goes to the PCM zone.

The only thing that won't work is a mixed playlist of DSD and PCM.  Those don't work correctly with the current zone switch implementation.

Brian.

[HiFiTubes]

Thanks, I do have this set up you describe but never use it since I never noticed an issue using the Vega capped at DSD128 before the upgrade; I also like the mixed playlists.

The iFi is new so I haven't really noticed until now how it operates different.

thanks!

^ You can make MC do what you want.  You can do it with Zones.  Build a DSD only zone, with bitstreaming turned on and Output Encoding turned OFF.  Set that zone to only play DSD.

Now build a PCM zone.  Set it with bitstreaming off, and Output Encoding to 4xDSD (or whatever your target is).  Set this zone to engage with PCM audio.

Now when you double click on DSD, it should go to the DSD zone.  Double click on PCM and it goes to the PCM zone.

The only thing that won't work is a mixed playlist of DSD and PCM.  Those don't work correctly with the current zone switch implementation.

Brian.

[DJLegba]

Haven't tried this with MC22 but after seeing your post I tried with MC21. My e22 USB DAC has no trouble playing native 4xDSD but if I attempt to convert from PCM to 4xDSD it stutters, even though the resource monitor is not showing stress on the CPU. I can convert from PCM to 2xDSD with flawless playback. I only did this to test, though. Normally I don't convert formats when playing through the e22.

[HiFiTubes]

Haven't tried this with MC22 but after seeing your post I tried with MC21. My e22 USB DAC has no trouble playing native 4xDSD but if I attempt to convert from PCM to 4xDSD it stutters, even though the resource monitor is not showing stress on the CPU. I can convert from PCM to 2xDSD with flawless playback. I only did this to test, though. Normally I don't convert formats when playing through the e22.

Thanks for chiming in. I have needed to tweak some buffers to get mine stutter/sync-error free especially using the Vega's Exact mode for the clock.

But since you have playback started, it seems to be working as it should. Does the Exasound do the 4XDSD using the ASIO method without DoP?

So that's two DACs working at DSD256 with JRMC22:

ExaSound e22
iFi iDSD

[DJLegba]

To clarify, when I set output encoding to DSD in DoP format the e22 front panel displays PCM at the correct sample rate, but I hear nothing. Convert to DSD in native format (requires ASIO driver) works successfully.

Brian, as a test I played a DSD track with output conversion set to 2xDSD. The e22's front panel displayed 2.8MHz (not 5.6) and MC says no changes are being made. I have bitstreaming enabled.

Well, enough testing. Now back to output encoding set to None.

[HiFiTubes]

Can anyone chime in as to what would be so unique about the Vega that it will not do DSDx4 via ASIO when it is supposed to, and since the iFi performs flawless with MC, I don't see how I can fault MC?

[kr4]

So that's two DACs working at DSD256 with JRMC22:

ExaSound e22
iFi iDSD

I can play 4xDSD in multichannel via the exaSound e28.  These are native files as I do not do any upsampling.

[HiFiTubes]

Auralic states "JRiver just doesn't do DSD256 with the Vega".

Isn't there a standard?

I've asked if the new DAC has MC support.

[dtc]

Auralic states "JRiver just doesn't do DSD256 with the Vega".

Isn't there a standard?

I've asked if the new DAC has MC support.

Actually, Aurulic specifications confuse me. They say they only support 4XDSD only through DoP via USB. (See the *** next to DSD 256.) That would say that native DSD256 is not supported. Has that changed?

To use DoP for 4xDSD the DAC needs to support 705 KHz sample rate,  which I do not believe the Vega does.

For native 4xDSD, MC should be able to send that as long as the ASIO driver and the DAC support it. But, their documentation says the Vega does not support native SDS256.

Can you ask them if the Vega supports DoP at 705 KHz and/or native DSD for DSD256? And, why do they say MC does not work with the Vega? What is the problem with MC and the DAC? Do they think it is a MC bug or a limitation? Given the popularity of MC, I would think they would like it to work? If it is not a fatal incompatibility, will they work with JRiver to figure out why? They should be able to supply you with that information.

Unless I am missing something, I think some more information from Aurulic would be helpful.

[HiFiTubes]

DSD256 over DoP is a recent update the the spec on site because the new v2 Vega units support that.

I have a v1 unit that was sent to Auralic for a hardware upgrade.

I can't get DoP DSD256 to work, and they haven't coughed up any info in the 8 months I have been trying to dedicate time to get it working.

FooBar is such a cluster but I need to set it up with all the modules to see if it works at this point to isolate the issue.

Thanks for your input, and I hope to hear back from Auralic soon with more answers.

Actually, Aurulic specifications confuse me. They say they only support 4XDSD only through DoP via USB. (See the *** next to DSD 256.) That would say that native DSD256 is not supported. Has that changed?

To use DoP for 4xDSD the DAC needs to support 705 KHz sample rate,  which I do not believe the Vega does.

For native 4xDSD, MC should be able to send that as long as the ASIO driver and the DAC support it. But, their documentation says the Vega does not support native SDS256.

Can you ask them if the Vega supports DoP at 705 KHz and/or native DSD for DSD256? And, why do they say MC does not work with the Vega? What is the problem with MC and the DAC? Do they think it is a MC bug or a limitation? Given the popularity of MC, I would think they would like it to work? If it is not a fatal incompatibility, will they work with JRiver to figure out why? They should be able to supply you with that information.

Unless I am missing something, I think some more information from Aurulic would be helpful.

[dtc]

As a test, you might try using DSP Studio to upscale a PCM file to 705 KHz and see if that plays. 705 KHz is what DSD256 would use for DoP. You can try the new Sox upsampler.

[HiFiTubes]

As a test, you might try using DSP Studio to upscale a PCM file to 705 KHz and see if that plays. 705 KHz is what DSD256 would use for DoP. You can try the new Sox upsampler.

Yeah , thanks I revisted Dop for DSD256 and it does fail to play at 705kHz. I'm pretty sure if I use SoX for a PCM test it will fail, but I'll try after work.

[dtc]

Yeah , thanks I revisted Dop for DSD256 and it does fail to play at 705kHz. I'm pretty sure if I use SoX for a PCM test it will fail, but I'll try after work.

If it is suppose to do DSD256 over DoP then it has to at least read 705 KHz PCM. DoP is just a DSD signal wrapped up in a PCM format. I suppose their update could have just enabled 705 KHz for DoP and not actually play 705 KHz PCM

Since it is using DoP you might also try WASAPI rather than the ASIO driver. WASAPI will force a DoP signal. Just to be sure - do you have the DoP box checked in the ASIO driver?

Just for kicks, have you tried converting a file to DSD256 and playing that, rather than doing the conversion in real time?

Some ASIO drivers require you to have the volume set to 100% to work.

Grasping at straws here.

[HiFiTubes]

I have one native DSD256 file I am about to download. I have noticed volume has to be max, and I do have the the DoP box ticked (and unticked when trying NAtive ASIO bitstreaming).

Why they think Foobar will work and not MC is beyond me....

[HiFiTubes]

A native DSD256 file with DoP doesn't work, I imagine if I was sitting here with a new v2 Vega, it should and would. But again they are claiming MC is incompatible.

There must be something about the v1>v2 upgrade? How can they not support DoP or Native bitstreamed DSD via ASIO?  ?

Is this a problem with their driver? the v2 units use the same one...

[HiFiTubes]

You'd think the v1 and v2 Vegas would be identical after update?

Supported Digital Formats
All PCM from 44.1KS/s to 384KS/s in 32Bit**
DSD64, DSD128, DSD256***

Output Voltage
4Vrms at Max. with dynamic-loss-free digital volume

User Interface
AURALiC RC-1 remote control
512*64 pixels OLED Display

Power Consumption
Standby: <2W
Sleep: <10W
Playback:  15W at max.

Dimension
11''W x 9''D x 2.6''H (33cm x 23cm x 6.5cm)

Weight
7.5 pounds (3.4kg)

 

* Tested under Filter Mode #1 for all sampling rate
** 352.8KS/s and 384KS/s are supported through USB only
** 32bit is supported through USB only
*** By 'DoP V1.1' protocol through USB only

[dtc]

Do you have the latest usb driver - 3.34 is the latest according to their website?

Did you try WASABI rather than the ASIO driver?

[HiFiTubes]

Thanks they have an old driver on the Vega page. I navigated to the site differently today using a generic search for "Vega USB driver" and was routed to a newer support page with a new driver! It's working now but have to use Auto Clock mode or the white noise from a sync error mixed with music. Thanks for the suggestion, and I'm alerting Auralic to update the page.

[HiFiTubes]

Tweaked some buffer settings and getting some stable PCM2DSD256 playback so far....can't say the same for Foobar.

[new2hifi]

I played around and following works. Now Vega HW1.3, SW2.0 plays and shows DSD256 on its screen

Driver: AURALiC_USBDriver_3_34_0

MC21 Settings
Audio Device:          Auralic USB Audio 2.0 ASIO Driver
Device Settings:          Uncheck "DSD bitstream in DoP format"
Bitstreaming:            Yes (DSD)