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[sorepinky]

For as long as I've been using MC (since Version 17) with Internal Volume I've just lived with the poor audio taper approximation of the volume slider.  The useful range is only between about 60 and 100%.  Below 50% the sound is basically all gone.  It's a bit of a PITA when using JRemote to adjust the volume.  You need to be pretty quick in releasing the up/down button on the Android tablet or else you've over-shot.  I just realised that it seems to be an "Internal Volume" problem in which what ought to be a proper log taper is far from it.  For example if you switch to System Volume, the slider works very nicely with a good log taper because it seems to be locked to the Windows volume slider that works properly.

Can this be addressed?

[mwillems]

For as long as I've been using MC (since Version 17) with Internal Volume I've just lived with the poor audio taper approximation of the volume slider.  The useful range is only between about 60 and 100%.  Below 50% the sound is basically all gone.  It's a bit of a PITA when using JRemote to adjust the volume.  You need to be pretty quick in releasing the up/down button on the Android tablet or else you've over-shot.  I just realised that it seems to be an "Internal Volume" problem in which what ought to be a proper log taper is far from it.  For example if you switch to System Volume, the slider works very nicely with a good log taper because it seems to be locked to the Windows volume slider that works properly.

Can this be addressed?

The slider does a straight log taper between 20% and 100% (.5dB per percentage point).  The scale accelerates below 20% though going up to 1.5dB per percent, and then 5dB, etc.  I haven't measured in a few months, but the volume did exactly what the UI said it did last time I measured (.5dB per percent between 20 an 100).  If you're seeing accelerated drop off below 50%, something may be wrong.

AFAIK (based on admittedly even older measurements) the win system volume doesn't actually do a log taper, it's more or less linear, which is not my cup of tea.  That may have changed in 10, but it still seems linear here.  If you want more volume at lower slider settings, you probably want a linear taper anyway.

[sorepinky]

Yes I can see that below 20% the scale changes.  That is not the issue.  The problem is predominantly in the upper range.

With Internal Volume selected, there is 0.5dB per percentage point the whole way from 20% through to 100%.  This means that at 50% it's at -25dB which is way too low for a half way point (and causes the slider to be too sensitive between 50% and 100%).  A regular log taper volume pot will provide around 30dB for full rotation, with the mid-point being at around -15dB.  Basically Internal Volume is 10dB too low by the 50% position.  10dB is an enormous error (voltage ratio 3.16, power ratio 10).

See Rod Elliott's page here: http://sound.whsites.net/project01.htm

I have built his log taper approximation project per Figs. 1 and 2 for a subwoofer controller and it's absolutely brilliant.

The scaling for MC's Internal Volume slider would be a thousand times better if it provided a straight line from 1% to 100% (0.3333dB per percent) with mute at zero.  At 50% this would be -16.6dB which is much more sensible.  At the moment
the length of the slider below about 33% steals a third of the slider for nothing - changing the volume from practically inaudible to inaudible.

PS:  I apologise for missing this thread : http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=69939.msg471528#msg471528

But they miss the point.  It's not about setting and forgetting a level.  It's about providing a slider (like a volume pot) that provides a predictable volume level for its position.  1/3 dB per percent would give the set-and-forgetters the fine tuning they want even down in the lower levels and also provide a proper log taper for those like me that generally leave the volume at 100% with Volume Leveling ON for the occasional tweak with the volume slider.

Maybe this thread could be cut and pasted over there.

[Hendrik]

How the volume control behaves is rather fundamental behavior, and everyone that uses MC "expects" the current behavior to some degree, so even if you think its not ideal right now, its unlikely to just change overnight, as that would be rather disruptive.

The slider does work "predictably" afterall, just at 0.5dB steps over most of its width instead of your suggested 0.33dB steps - not really a huge significant difference. It only falls of steeper at low levels, because people asked for that at some point, since they needed much lower levels then a pure log scale of 0.5 per percent could give them (and 0.33 per percent would even be worse in that regard, since at 0 its just -33dB)

So in short, different people have different requirements. Some have strong headphone dacs and need to listen at -50dB, some have their system tuned in such a way that they need to  live between 0dB and -10dB, but short of making the ranges entirely customizable we're not going to make everyone happy (and this would be a rather big change since its tied into MCs operation at various points).

[mwillems]

How the volume control behaves is rather fundamental behavior, and everyone that uses MC "expects" the current behavior to some degree, so even if you think its not ideal right now, its unlikely to just change overnight, as that would be rather disruptive.

The slider does work "predictably" afterall, just at 0.5dB steps over most of its width instead of your suggested 0.33dB steps - not really a huge significant difference. It only falls of steeper at low levels, because people asked for that at some point, since they needed much lower levels then a pure log scale of 0.5 per percent could give them (and 0.33 per percent would even be worse in that regard, since at 0 its just -33dB)

So in short, different people have different requirements. Some have strong headphone dacs and need to listen at -50dB, some have their system tuned in such a way that they need to  live between 0dB and -10dB, but short of making the ranges entirely customizable we're not going to make everyone happy (and this would be a rather big change since its tied into MCs operation at various points).

I'll second this.  My system is hooked up directly to power amps, and about -40dB is about where my volume level lives by default.   A volume level that bottomed out at -30dB would be a non-starter for me.  The current system give me plenty of room to turn it up, and plenty of room to shrink as well.  I built my current amps without volume controls precisely because JRiver provides such a nice wide range of volume control. 

As to intuitive behavior, in computer audio most people expect 0% volume to be no sound whatsoever, not -33dB; to get there the taper has to accelerate at some point across the band, right?  In fact, Rod's volume controls in the article you linked begin accelerating towards zero below 20%, which is actually fairly typical with modern analog volume controls.

[sorepinky]

Erm... didn't I suggest "mute at zero" with 33dB from 1% to 100%?

Rod says that the line should be straight. The deviations at the extreme ends are unavoidable in the analogue circuits he describes.  He also suggests that (a mere) 25dB will normally be the range over which any volume control is used.  I know him personally and can state without hesitation that he knows his subject.

If my sound systems had excessive gain with no other means of attenuation, I'd apply some in DSP Studio and use the volume slider in it's middle region rather than the highy compromised bottom "non-linear" 20% where the resolution is a poor 1.5 and 4.5dB per percent in the present scaling.

DSP Studio -> Parametric Equaliser -> Add -> Adjust the volume (insert negative number)

0.333 dB per percent (with mute at 0% as suggested) would be a huge improvement over the present set-up.  A 10-fold power output difference at the mid point of the slider compared with the present scaling and a much less touchy response.

With fixed attenuation applied in DSP Studio if needed, 33dB of range from 1% to 100% would be excellent for everyone - just like the Windows 10 slider I suspect.