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[JimH]

We're going to try to fine tune the QuickTags.  Here's what we plan to do.

We'll change the name from QuickTags to TaggingMode.

A tip will be added (with the "don't tell me again" option) to explain a little about how it works.

The tag icons used in the panes will change to check boxes.  Checking a box will set the tag for the selection.

Anything else we can do to make this easier or more clear for novice users?

[Jaguu]

Well JimH,

not only for novice users  One of the absolute highlights of MJ8/MC9.0 was definitely the ease of use for tagging with the properties pane on the right side. It was easy and almost flawless!

I did some massive tagging this rainy weekend and I must say that Doof hit the point: Quick tagging is not quicker than tagging with the properties window - except that the properties window is smaller and unfavourably positioned on the lower left corner!

Although I like the panes for selecting tracks/images a lot, I feel that using the quick tag system is more of a distraction than a real gain over the old system.

I don't have any clear idea on how to improve it except the one thing I wish to have - and this has been asked a few times - to have all the tag values at your disposition, especially for people/places/events and user defined fields.

Maybe a solution would be a two-colour system: green for the tag values belonging to the selection and red for all other values belonging to that tag. Also the auto-complete feature suggested by Matt would come in handy.

Well, you do not like to hear it, but I am disappointed that the properties window has not been reworked in this release although asked by many here on Interact. It looks like an unfinished piece of work forgotten in the lower left corner of MC9.

And another thing about negative feelings, criticizing, being grumpy. One feels like that because one likes a product, a person, an object. If we do not care for something or somebody, we simply do not waste all that time on this forum unless one is paranoid. And I do not have the impression that anybody here qualifies for that title.

So, if from time to time there is some heavy criticizing (it rarely happens here) take it as severe hint from the community that there is some dissatisfaction looming around.

[jleerigby]

Having the properties window in the lower left hand corner is a big improvement in my opinion as it uses up wasted real estate.  I hated it in 9.0 where properties displayed over the view of tracks I was trying to tag.

I agree with Jaguu though as I can't really see how quick tag is better than the properties window.  Maybe it's 'cos I'm a music only user.

[sdgrizdan]

I agree with Jaguu though as I can't really see how quick tag is better than the properties window.  Maybe it's 'cos I'm a music only user.

You're right: its because ure a music only user. For tagging many images, the quick tag feature works like a charm, but only when you can see all the options available such as people, places, etc.

The way it is now with the hiding of tagging selections for images makes the tagging process a chore.

See this thread for more on this issue:
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1058022656

[lee269]

Ive been doing some image tagging lately with my holiday snaps. For whatever reason, my default strategy was to identify the first picture in each place and tag that, and then go back to complete tagging once all location tags were available in the panes. Seems long-winded, but I honestly didnt feel it was slower than using the properties pane - but I use it windowed for serious tagging because the pane is too small on my PC .

Thinking back, it would seem easier if I could see all the tag options in each field - but I dont understand what would happen if I wanted to add a new value for a tag, say for a new value in the people field. Id have to locate an image of that person and click <new people> anyway. It seems showing all tag values becomes truly useful only when you already have lots of images in your library already tagged with those values. Or have I missed something?

I like QuickTag (and to me it sounds better than TaggingMode - IntelliTag? ). It could be dangerous, but it is powerful. I think a checkbox is more unambiguous than the current icons, but the icons, being more colourful, are probably safer for those of use who dont always watch closely what were doing. Id vote for something reasonably big, bright and easy to see.

[Doof]

Well, the changes you outline go a long way towards helping users understand how Tagging Mode works, but it really doesn't do anything to make it easier or faster to use once you've figured it out.

I think I stated pretty well what I'd like to see it do in the other thread, and two options that could make it work however anybody using it wanted it to work. So I won't get back into that stuff.

Other than that... I'll kind of miss the little tag icon, but I can see how replacing it with a standard checkbox could help people understand what's going on a little easier.

[nila]

I agree with Doof that the 'smart tagging' mode for tagging is a LOT fast than the current system.

I would however also just like to say THANK YOU for making it all values - this is sooooo much better and means I can use it to tag with now - The smart tagging system might be faster but it's not a showstopper - the lack of values was

Wahoo!! THANKS!!

The message in the pane when no files are selected doesn't display for me - almost all of it is appended - all the other columns are empty but as they dont resize *nudge, nudge* I cant see the text

See - I didn't even say anything lol

A tip is great and I think the addition of them all over MC would REALLY break down the more complex features for beginners as I know thats one of the things you worry most about when adding too many new features.

Also - I REALLY think a 'configuration wizard' when MC is first launched ever would REALLY do this too - almost every single complex piece of software I have used recently has had this and it really helped me get it how I wanted without knowing anything about the program.

I'm just happy it now shows all values so thanks


Ah - the option for 'new value' seems to have disappeared for me - I presume this is a bug? or not? If not then how do we add new values to say the people field as we are tagging?

If this isn't a bug - then this should be brought back again for beginners (*cough - me*)

[MachineHead]

Quick tagging is not quicker than tagging with the properties window - except that the properties window is smaller and unfavourably positioned on the lower left corner!

Exactly. The flow, at least for me, isn't as easy as it could be.

Well, you do not like to hear it, but I am disappointed that the properties window has not been reworked in this release although asked by many here on Interact. It looks like an unfinished piece of work forgotten in the lower left corner of MC9.

Agree again. Properties should have been left where it was. The real estate issue is moot. You use effectively, then close it up. Done deal. Now it's look down at the postage stamp, back up to the file list, back down, etc., etc. Not like reading a book as it was. Not natural like it could be.

Also 9.1 is a pain when trying to zero in on a specific folder from Hard Disk Location. 9.0 was easy to create a view scheme based on main folder locations. Now you get unassigned files if you try and deny a certain folders. Why?

And by specific folders I mean Main > and five sub folders. Try it and see if I'm whacked. Maybe I'm missing something that should be very basic. (?)

This would really help with tagging operations when you have one folder that is constantly being added to. Emusic and broadband come to mind immeadiately and I have a folder set-up just for these files. While most are tagged fairly well, enough are not and correction is now a chore instead of a simple deal. Put bluntly, 9.0 is even faster then 9.1 when set-up a view scheme as I had before.

Hopefully you guys realize that this just constructive critism, and no way points the finger at you saying you are evil for changing the beloved File Properties.  

[Phil Lee]

You can of course drag the seperator bar for the file properties window right up to the top of the screen. It then appears exactly how it did before filling the whole height of the program, except that it is now on the left hand side of the screen.

[Pink Waters]

Tagging mode has 1 disadvantage which is the lack of tagging files which is on playing now.. and this is a very common usage for people want to tag non-imported tracks in playing now before imprting them in the liberary..

i suggest adding the tagging mode back in the playing now window which when pressed replaces the upper part of playing now window(trackinfo,..image,visualization) with the tagging panes which is in the liberary...

Thank you ..

[Omni]

i suggest adding the tagging mode back in the playing now window which when pressed replaces the upper part of playing now window(trackinfo,..image,visualization) with the tagging panes which is in the liberary...

One can still tag in Playing Now via the file properties window or directly on the track list itself (right-click Edit or F2).

I would not be one of them, but I guarantee you that if JRiver brought the panes over to the Playing Now window, dozens of people would gripe and complain about how it is taking up "valuable screen real estate" even though, as you point out, they can hide it.  (People just like to complain; it makes them feel important I guess. )

Omni

[nila]

Omni - it wouldn't be 'taking up screen space' if it was just simply an option next to: Visualisations, Track Info etc - it could then be turned on or off just as easily as changing what they want displayed - no harm just benefit.

I'd LOVE to see it here for tagging as I listen to music - its what I need to be able to categorise my songs properly into 'moods' - when mood is a list type (panes are the only real way of dealing with list types)

[Omni]

Omni - it wouldn't be 'taking up screen space' if it was just simply an option next to: Visualisations, Track Info etc - it could then be turned on or off just as easily as changing what they want displayed - no harm just benefit.

You missed my point entirely.

I know it would not take up any more space than is already taken up; you know it; and ToMy00 knows it.  But there would still be people who would complain about it, especially those who don't like the panes in the first place.

Luckily, it's a moot argument/speculation/whatever since Jim has already decreed that there would be no new features for a while.

Omni

[gkerber]

Try it!  I'll be your tester.  I've tried and others have patiently tried to explain QuickTag to me.  I still don't get it...

I've removed it from my toolbar....

But others like it, and I might like it too, if I knew what it was for and why it was a good thing.

[Doof]

Have you even tried it? I've given you step by step directions on what to do as an illustration. So have others. Numerous times. You keep saying that you don't get it, but you haven't said whether or not you've even tried the steps I outlined.

But once again...

Let's say you have 2 files. One is Metallica and the other is incorrectly Metallicaaa. You want to change Metalicaaa to Metallica.

So while you're in Media Library, in a view scheme that contains Artist with panes showing, you select the Metallicaaa file. You then click the Tagging Mode (as it's called now) button.

You'll notice that you now have a bunch of values listed in the pane of all the artists in your library. Included in this list is Metallica and Metallicaaa. Since you have the Metallicaaa file selected, you'll notice that the checkbox next to Metallicaaa is checked.

But since you want the artist for this file to be Metallica, you simply check the checkbox next to Metallica and BAM. The artist for that file, which was previously Metallicaaa is now Metallica.

This is a very simple example of how to use it. It's a lot more useful when you're tagging files with list values, like People in images. You can just check the boxes for all your friends to add them as People to an image, for instance.

But all this depends on you using the panes, and since you refuse to use those, you may as well just leave the Tagging Mode button off of your toolbar.

[Pink Waters]

Omni - it wouldn't be 'taking up screen space' if it was just simply an option next to: Visualisations, Track Info etc - it could then be turned on or off just as easily as changing what they want displayed - no harm just benefit.

No Nila, it would be greater if appears only when clicking tagging mode in playing now window and be closed when we close tagging mode

its a great idea if applied .. so regards for jim to pass that idea

[gkerber]

Have you even tried it? I've given you step by step directions on what to do as an illustration. So have others. Numerous times. You keep saying that you don't get it, but you haven't said whether or not you've even tried the steps I outlined.

Thanks, you know, somehow I was not even aware that this was a panes only thing.  I have tried to do what you and others told me when I was experimenting with panes, somehow I still didn't get it.  LIke I was missing some crucial fact that would pull it all together.

But all this depends on you using the panes, and since you refuse to use those, you may as well just leave the Tagging Mode button off of your toolbar.

Now that I know, it's for panes only, I will leave it off my tool bar and forget about it, since I don't use panes.

As for "refusal", that's a pretty strong emotional word.  No I don't use the panes, that does not make me a bad person.

[Doof]

I wasn't implying anything about your moral character.

Would "choose" be a better word?

[nila]

Maybe as an idea - if a user switches on tagging mode -it should instantly make the panes appear if they are hidden just so that it becomes obvious to users what this feature does and enables the 'tagging mode' to work more effectively for those with panes hidden??

[phelt]

Doof: yes, I think "choose" would be a more diplomatic term  

I don't use quicktag/taggingmode at all. I played with it and can see how efficient it could be for folks with a lot of tagging ops to perform, but it never felt 'right' to me. So it's great that it can be taken off the toolbar - I don't have to worry about accidentally pressing it and folks who like it can tag to their heart's content