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[rovo]

Hello,

I noticed it is possible to have MC convert a DSD64 file to DSD128.
During this process, will the DSD64 file be converted to PCM first (which would defeat the purpose)?

-R.

[blgentry]

As far as I know, all of MC's audio conversions go through PCM in the middle.

But really, "upconversion" is kind of a weird thing to begin with isn't it?  I mean, you can't create new data where there was no data to start with.  So, by definition, any conversion from DSD64 to DSD128 is artificial and "made up".  You can't create new data.

Brian.

[rovo]

DSD128 has advantages over DSD64. Obviously not in creating data that's not there to begin with but much more in terms of where noise resides. DSD128 doesn't need quite such an aggressive filter as DSD64 does, when it is converted to PCM.

-R.

[rovo]

As far as I know, all of MC's audio conversions go through PCM in the middle.

I take it though SACD ISO -> DSF conversions don't go PCM first?

-R.

[Awesome Donkey]

I take it though SACD ISO -> DSF conversions don't go PCM first?

They do actually. Converting SACD ISO to DSF or DFF (or DFF to DSF or vice versa) will also go through PCM.

[rovo]

... (or DFF to DSF or vice versa) ...

I wish I had known that earlier. I didn't know MC could do DSF->DFF though?

[rovo]

Going from SACD ISO to DSF should not involve the step to PCM. Same for dff->dsf.

JRiver devs, please either fix or disable the functionality.

-R.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, this has been suggested in the past (by me and perhaps others).

[Matt]

Going from SACD ISO to DSF should not involve the step to PCM. Same for dff->dsf.

JRiver devs, please either fix or disable the functionality.

What do you mean?  If you set DSD to bitstream, there should be no conversion during playback.

[Hendrik]

Any audio conversion in MC uses our PCM audio engine, and we're not about to disable some conversion options based on what is the input format. The entire point is to be able to convert anything into anything.
We also do not plan to add another conversion engine that uses DSD internally at this point, sorry.

[rovo]

It's like converting WAV to AIFF and MC goes about this by doing WAV->MP3->AIFF.

That just doesn't make sense and is just offerring the conversion for the sake of it, without questioning its usefulness.

[rovo]

@DSD_addict
This looks very interesting. Thanks for the suggestion! I downloaded and installed it. I'll be testing it over the next few days and see if it meets my needs.



The matter for MC remains, if even out of principle. Refusing a design change suggestion out of hand, even though the current design is flawed, feels odd.

[rovo]

@rovo

If you are looking for a way to convert DSD files (.dsf and .dff) from DSD64 to DSD128, there is a free tool offered by Teac (Tascam).
It's the "Tascam Hi-Res Editor" - http://tascam.com/product/hi-res_editor/downloads/

I tested it and concluded that it will have to do. I will use the Tascam tool for DSD conversions until a better alternative becomes available.
For splitting SACD ISO files I use sacd_extract from now on.

Be advised that even though the Tascam tool does not use the intermediary PCM step like MC does, DSD conversions are inherently (ever so slightly) lossy. I.e. if you do dsd64->dsd128->dsd64 the the two dsf64 files will differ in file size. I suspect not even a dog would be able to tell them apart though and that only noise is affected.

Btw, for anyone interested, the source code can be requested and is supplied free of charge.

[rovo]

I have not noticed that
I have not done any conversions back to the original format.
I was more interested in the final result (does it play, does it sound good when converted from DSD256 to DSD128... etc).

Are you sure you've converted to the same file type (i.e. .dsf or dff)? Usually the .dsf is a couple of kB larger than it's .dff counterpart (as I've noticed when using tools to convert .dff to .dsf - since .dff does not support metadata tags).

Yes, I am quite sure. Tbh, it would have surprised me if the results had shown a 100% lossless conversion as I don't think that is possible. Still, the difference was less than 3MB on a 580MB audio file so I didn't even try to find out if I could hear a difference.

A DFF file can be repackaged into a DSF file 100% losslessly (not talking file size here), but dsd64 and dsd128 etc have noise moved into different ultrasonic frequencies...

What also concerns me is that when converting PCM to DSF, JRiver produces smaller files than the Tascam Editor does. My concern is that JRiver devs may have chosen more short cuts to favor functionality at the cost of quality. Of course I have no proof of this but their refusal to fix a design flaw and unwillingness to favor quality over functionality has made me suspicious.

This just adds to your bug report which they seem unwilling to acknowledge. Because of that bug I stopped using MC to play DSD months ago. Every new MC version I test to see if it was fixed. My Calyx M has basically unlimited storage capacity (SD card and micro SD card slot) and I just moved all my DSD audio onto SD cards, using the Calyx exclusively to play DSD audio.

Not here to bash MC as I see plenty potential but there are some design flaws and bugs (that have been around for a long time) that need to be addressed.

-R.