Topic: More 'odd' behavior (Read 7651 times)

johnjen · « **on:** August 18, 2016, 01:55:06 am »

After playing for a while (~~a WAG ≈~~ about 5-6hrs) the progress bar and all of the related information in that display 'get ahead of themselves'.

IOW the display is not showing what is currently being played, but is ~~(WAG ≈~~ about 10-30 seconds) ahead and may be the cause of the intermittent pauses and skips to the next track, BEFORE the end of the track that was playing before the skip/pause etc.

JJ

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2016, 06:50:22 am »

What's a WAG?

edbro · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2016, 07:55:16 am »

Quote from: JimH on August 18, 2016, 06:50:22 am

What's a WAG?

Wild @ss Guess?

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2016, 08:55:55 am »

Thanks. I changed it above.

blgentry · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2016, 08:57:41 am »

Are you using DLNA for your playback device? I don't think the time sync between what's being displayed by MC and what's being played by a DLNA renderer are in any way guaranteed.

Brian.

johnjen · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2016, 03:43:55 pm »

Yes, Wild A** Guess…

No, not DLNA.
I am using an AOIP setup with an Danté virtual soundcard ASIO driver loaded in Media Center.

JJ

blgentry · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2016, 04:25:42 pm »

I have no idea how AOIP (Audio Over Internet Protocol?) works with MC. It's network based, so I can imagine that various things might go wrong.

If you care about the audio being perfectly in sync, and no other strange issues, I'd recommend a direct connection to the computer.

EDIT: Are you using the Mac version of MC? I didn't think MC for Mac had any provisions at all for ASIO drivers. I think there are some details you haven't told us.

Brian.

johnjen · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:22:54 pm »

The only difference that MC sees is it is using a 'different' driver to send the digital output stream via ethernet instead of USB.

That is the extent of the change in using AOIP, that being, using the Danté ASIO driver instead of the dedicated drivers to 'talk to' the dacs themselves.

There are many using this new method of sending the digital audio stream to our dacs as it is a superior (as in the SQ is much better) method of transport.
And other than the Audio Device driver change, I haven't changed anything else in MC.

And yes I'm running on a Mac Pro (10.9.5) as are others, while others are running on PC's using JRiver and AOIP.

And while it is networked based, as far as Media Center is concerned it shouldn't see anything different other than an Audio Device driver change using a ASIO driver.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a direct connection to the computer.", unless you mean that the dac should have a direct connection to the computer, which it does, as my AOIP box is the only device being connected to the 2nd ethernet port on my Mac which then converts the digital audio stream to AES3 which then feeds my dac.

But the 'odd' behavior of the player losing 'synch' with the track it is playing shouldn't have anything to do with the method of transport of the digital audio output stream.
At least as far as I understand what is happening.

I will continue to monitor this and determine more of the circumstances (when and under what conditions) this out of synch situation occurs.

And just as an added heads up, AOIP is THE up and coming digital audio transport for those who wish to achieve superior SQ out of their systems.
Right now its expensive and is based upon ProAudio, Focusrite RedNet boxes and using the Audinate, Danté dedicated digital media network protocol.
https://us.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-3
https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-virtual-soundcard
https://www.audinate.com/solutions

But it, like other 'Better' audio system improvements, will become much more prevalent, especially as the price and ease of implementation gets better.

In fact there looks to be a move towards incorporating the AOIP function inside the dac itself so the cat6 cable will run directly from the computer to the dac, with the potential for networked digital audio feeds being sent to multiple dacs etc., since the routing of the IP packets will be handled in an ethernet network dedicated to just this purpose.

JJ

blgentry · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:30:35 pm »

It sounds like your mind is made up. I won't try to speculate further. Good luck with your setup.

Brian.

johnjen · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:35:31 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on August 18, 2016, 05:30:35 pm

It sounds like your mind is made up. I won't try to speculate further. Good luck with your setup.

Brian.

I don't understand what you mean?
Made up on what?

JJ

blgentry · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:54:05 pm »

I asked you a question and speculated that maybe AOIP is the issue. You responded with a lot of information about how you think AOIP can't possibly have anything to do with it, how good AOIP is, and didn't answer my question.

The truth is, I don't know what's wrong with your setup. I'm just making educated guesses. My suggestion to use a "direct connection" means USB, toslink, or AES. I do not consider a network connection to be "direct" in the context of digital audio.

But hey, I'm just another customer like you. Maybe someone else will have some more constructive advice or ideas. Good luck.

Brian.

johnjen · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2016, 06:28:07 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on August 18, 2016, 05:54:05 pm

I asked you a question and speculated that maybe AOIP is the issue. You responded with a lot of information about how you think AOIP can't possibly have anything to do with it, how good AOIP is, and didn't answer my question.

The truth is, I don't know what's wrong with your setup. I'm just making educated guesses. My suggestion to use a "direct connection" means USB, toslink, or AES. I do not consider a network connection to be "direct" in the context of digital audio.

But hey, I'm just another customer like you. Maybe someone else will have some more constructive advice or ideas. Good luck.

Brian.

Ah I see now…

Thanks for that clarification.

I still have the USB setup to compare to so I can swap back and forth between AOIP and USB by just selecting that input to my dac.

And thus far my USB setup doesn't have this issue.
As for "you think AOIP can't possibly have anything to do with it" as I stated I can't see where just changing an audio output driver should lead to this out of synch condition, since this 'out of synch' is happening during the processing of the digital audio stream and not after being handed off to the output driver.
But then I'm not fully aware of how MC 'operates' either so it is speculation on my part.

And the reason I included the info on AOIP is because it is coming, it will be a preferred means of digital audio transport and it is is based upon ProAudio equipment and it will become far more popular.

And this 'out of synch' situation isn't a frequent occurrence (≈1-2 times a day) so it doesn't preclude me from using it (ie. it isn't a major PIA, it's just another nuisance).

And since this is ProAudio gear it is usually held to 'higher' standard of performance and reliability and since I generally play music 24/7, I AM 'pushing the envelope' so to speak, more, still, again etc.

So one way to view all of this is I'm providing feedback of a 'new' way in which MC is being used and for those who are seeking better and better SQ, AOIP will become more and more common.

JJ

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2016, 06:52:46 pm »

Audio over Internet has been around for a very long time. In MC, you can play video over TCP/IP with Library Server or DLNA. That's been available for years.

johnjen · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2016, 05:29:44 am »

Quote from: JimH on August 18, 2016, 06:52:46 pm

Audio over Internet has been around for a very long time. In MC, you can play video over TCP/IP with Library Server or DLNA. That's been available for years.

Yes DLNA has been around for quite some time.
I used it to feed my dac before USB got 'tweaked' by the first of a stream of 'decrapifiers' and assorted DDC's that have substantially proliferated of late.

But this Danté AOIP is a major step up in SQ, and as an audio friend put it, 'even one who wears hearing aids would be able to tell the difference'.

It's not subtle, at least for those playback systems with sufficient resolution.

JJ

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2016, 07:08:33 am »

It is impossible to "improve" audio that is transferred over a network connection. It either gets there in time or it doesn't.

Please don't propagate nonsense here.

johnjen · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2016, 01:58:25 am »

So after observing this 'odd' behavior for a while now, it seems that the integer mode and exclusive access influence how often these behaviors show up.

Just a few more data points to consider.

JJ

johnjen · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2016, 10:40:27 pm »

And the Audinate DVS (digital virtual soundcard) driver for mac may have additional issues as well.
So there may be an external (of MC) change to the ASIO driver itself
Perhaps it will improve the tendency for MC to get ahead of itself.

JJ

johnjen · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2016, 10:06:41 pm »

Latest odd behavior…

The progress bar does not move, nor does the countdown timer, even after stopping the previous track from playing, skipping to the next track and then start playing again.

Other than that MC is seemingly playing fine.

JJ

billfish · « **Reply #18 on:** September 13, 2016, 11:24:43 am »

FWIW, I also had an issue where MC would play a few seconds of a track and then skip to the next track. My setup is not as exotic as JohnJen's, although I was playing to DLNA, but I had made many changes and tweaks while figuring things out, and MC was seriously lugging and lagging, with the spinning beachball each time I made a change. I'm going to start from scratch with a clean install. I'd still like to understand MC skipping through the tracks, playing a brief moment of each. It was also doing a thing where it would play a half second of a track and then stop. If I clicked Play, it would start from the beginning of the track and play a half-second and then stop again. The library is on the same machine as MC, though on an offboard disc.

johnjen · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2016, 11:39:36 pm »

When Media Center first starts up it takes a while (≈30 seconds) for my networked dac to be recognized and then pop up on the "Playing Now" stack. Once it does, then immediately after, a drop down menu bar box appears on the screen. It goes away when I click anywhere in the MC window.

This has been happening for quite a while now (I forget how long) and is a repeat of behavior from long ago, which went away. But now its back.

johnjen · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2016, 05:35:19 am »

Running .43
I dbl clicked on a different track and MC went into "buffering' and never came out.
After force quitting and re-launching all works as expected.

No errors, no report sent, etc.

JJ

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Author Topic: More 'odd' behavior (Read 7651 times)