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[Bjorn]

I need some help settings this up.

This is what I want using mye Lynx Two-B sound card that has 6 analogue outputs and 2 digital:

- Use 4 analogue channels to 2-way active front speakers (tweeter and midrange)

- 2 analogue channels to passive surround speakers

- Digital channels for the LFE channel (will go to an external cross over since I'm using several subwoofers)

My Lynx mixer looks like the attached image at the moment. I assume I don't need to change anything there?

I've set up the output format to 7.1 channels.

Will continue on next page.

[Bjorn]

From what I understand I need to copy left and right to some other channels using Mix channels in the Parametric Equalizer.

If I copy Left to Center and Right to Subwoofer, I should have two channels for each active front speaker and I can apply low and high pass filter for these channels. I will than use the following :
- Left for left tweeter
- Center for left midrange

- Right for right tweeter
- Subwoofer for right midrange

So far so good, right?

But from here I'm uncertain of what to do. How do I route the other channels correctly?

[Bjorn]

What I want to do with remaining channels of my Lynx card is to:

- Use 5 and 6 output for left and right passive surround speaker

- Use 7 and 8 digital output for LFE channel (not sure how that works being a single channel)

I need help with how to route this correctly.

[mattkhan]

am I reading this correctly that you have a 4.1 setup (i.e. no C speaker)? do you run your mains full range or do you want them bass managed and routed to your mono sub channel?

if so then I suggest you use 5.1 in a 7.1 container output format with the "move centre to front L/R" option checked as this distribute the C across the LR so you don't lose that content. You may also want the 1st option to avoid upmixing stereo to multichannel.

This will give you full range signals on channels 1 and 2 (L and R), LFE on channel 4 and full range surround signals on channels 7 and 8 (SL and SR). Channels 3,5,6 will be empty and free for you to use as you like.

You could then copy channels 1 and 2 to 5 and 6 and hence use 1/2/5/6 for your 2 way active LR.

If you want to use your suggested approach (of 5-6 for surround and 7-8 for LFE) then you would need to;

- move SL to RL (7 to 5)
- move SR to RR (8 to 6)
(you now effectively have L=1, R=2, LFE=4, SL=5, SR=6, 3/7/8=empty)
- move SW to SL (4 to 7)
- copy SL to SR (7 to
(you now effectively have L=1, R=2, LFE=7/8, SL=5, SR=6, 3/4=empty)
- copy L to C (1 to 3)
- copy R to SW (2 to 4)
(you now effectively have L=1/3, R=2/4, LFE=7/8, SL=5, SR=6)

note that you can't rename channels in jriver so you have to remember the mapping

you would now apply low passes to C and SW (3 and 4) and high passes to L and R (1 and 2) to give you your active front pair

If you want to do bass management as well then you have 3 choices;

1) use the convolver to do bass management on the above setup
2) switch to a >8 channel output format (to give yourself free channels to play with) and deal with mixing down 7.1 to 5.1 yourself
3) use jriver room correction and place that *before* the PEQ block that is handling the above

option 3 is probably simplest
option 1 is arguably the most work but is trivial extra work if you are applying phase correcting filters)
option 2 is not much harder than option 3 but does make your PEQ block more complicated

personally I wouldn't bother doing to moving channels around in jriver, I'd keep it simple and use your lynx mixer for that

remember you'll need to set delays at some point as well

[Bjorn]

Thanks mattkhan for the reply.

I have no center speaker. Only active 2-way front speakers (will require crossover and EQ in jriver), two passive surround speakers and multiple subwoofers (external crossover).
The subwoofers will take over in the area between 120-150 Hz.

I hear you when you say " I wouldn't bother doing to moving channels around in jriver, I'd keep it simple and use your lynx mixer for that". So it seems it's better for me to start with the Lynx mixer.

If so, how would you recommend me set up the Lynx mixer?

Yes I will need time alignment as well but let's take one step at a time :-)

I've changed the output format to what you recommended.

[Bjorn]

Followed your instruction mattkhan, but I didn't correct sound out from channel 5 to the left surround. Sounded like subwoofer channel. Didn't try any other channels with this configuration.

I'm struggling to see the overview of how this works. If we can this step by step and also with the Lynx mixer set in the easiest way, it would be great. I assume changing channels in the Lynx is simply done by changing the play out on top.

[mattkhan]

turn off the jrss subwoofer as well

you can use the 5.1 audio calibration signal along with the analyser to see where channels are going. If you can measure using REW or similar then you could also do loopback measurements to verify.

so step by step

output format
- 5.1 in a 7.1 container
- check "stereo sources mix to 2.1"
- check "move centre to front L/R"
- set subwoofer to silent

PEQ
- add mix/move LFE to RL
- add mix/copy RL to RR
- add mix/copy L to C
- add mix/copy R to SW
- add remove high frequencies Left/Right
- add remove low frequencies C/SW

you now have

L = output channel 1 = L mid
R = output channel 2 = R mid
C = output channel 3 = L tweeter
R = output channel 4 = R tweeter
RL = output channel 5 = LFE
RR = output channel 6 = LFE
SL = output channel 7 = L surround
SR = output channel 8 = R surround

now configure your lynx mixer to route those channels to the appropriate physical outputs

I put a steep high/low pass on the attached pic just so the jriver audio calibration signal can be used to see the effect of the crossover (as it is the usual 500Hz - 2kHz band limited pink noise)

[Bjorn]

I need to go through everything you wrote.

I was able to set things up by trying and seeing where the sound in the Lynx mixer ended up.
I changed the digital outputs in the Lynx mixer to channel 4 (subwoofer). And moved channels 3 and 4 to 7 and 8 in the Lynx mixer.
I had to move surround left and surround right up in front of RL and RR to get sound out from outputs 5 and 6 in the channel order in jriver. Noticed that the crossover for surrounds were adjusted by RL and RR in the Room correction.

Thought I had everything in place, but for some reason the subs stop to play with music (2 channel) when I add the high-pass filter to the fronts. Don't understand why.
Now I'm going to try your route.

[Bjorn]

Hi again.

I was able to set it up a few days ago and it works fine. I moved channels more in the Lynx mixer, which I thought was easier.

But there's on thing I don't fully understand. How is the relationship between jrss and subwoofer routing in in the room correction?
When I set it to silent under output format like the picture attached, my subs aren't playing with stereo. Why is this?

Also wondering how I can measure with REW with Asio driver. Right now I'm measuring with Java and I get an extra sound/feedback in the end of the sinus sweep.

[mattkhan]

you can use asio line in to measure via REW or the WDM loopback

show a pic of your room correction module

[Bjorn]

you can use asio line in to measure via REW or the WDM loopback

Can you explain how this is done?
And to make things more difficult, can I measure using another sound card that then Lynx? My mic need phantom powering, which Lynx doesn't have. Normally I measure with an external Mackie sound card. Pic attached of the REW setup

show a pic of your room correction module
[/quote]
Attached as well. With the jrss set to slient, it doesn't seem like the room correction is applied with stereo. At least the subs aren't playing.

[mattkhan]

you have placed room correction after PEQ, remember I said

>> 3) use jriver room correction and place that *before* the PEQ block that is handling the above

if you're using the scheme I posted earlier then channels 3 and 4 are the tweeters so this would mean youd be sending the bass to your tweeters

[Bjorn]

you have placed room correction after PEQ, remember I said

>> 3) use jriver room correction and place that *before* the PEQ block that is handling the above

if you're using the scheme I posted earlier then channels 3 and 4 are the tweeters so this would mean youd be sending the bass to your tweeters

Ok. Sorry for have overlooked that.

No worries. I didn't follow the scheme you mentioned. The channels are routed correctly. I checked with the Audio Calibration in REW after it was set up.

[mattkhan]

ok, pls post accurate info about routing otherwise one is prone to going on wild goose chase.

If you post that then it might be possible to diagnose otherwise play the calibration signal and do it via trial and error in the jriver analyser.

[Bjorn]

I know the routing is correct and it's been checked with the calibration signal in REW like mentioned.

You can see the how I moved the channels in Lynx mixer. Digital outputs to 4 (subwoofer). And channel 3 and 4 were moved to 7 and 8.

7 and 8 are used as left and right midrange to front speakers.

[mattkhan]

putting room correction downstream of mixing means you need to select whichever channels are heading for your LR mids for bass management. I don't know if the order channels option affects this though, I would have thought that LRC etc in room correction means channel 1 2 3 etc (as opposed to a named channel) but I can't say that for sure. I recommend you just use the analyser view in dsp studio to figure out where channels are going.

[Bjorn]

After I moved Room correction above PEQ, subwoofers are also playing with stereo and jrss set to silent.

However, room correction only has 120 Hz and 200 Hz crossover options and I want something in between there.

You mentioned the following as an option:
"If you want to do bass management as well then you have 3 choices;
2) switch to a >8 channel output format (to give yourself free channels to play with) and deal with mixing down 7.1 to 5.1 yourself"

Can you explain how this is done? I would like to cross over to subs around 150 Hz for both stereo and surround.

Also wondering how to measure with Asio using an external sound card. Is this possible? Or do I have measure with the sound card (Lynx) that I'm using for the setup?

[mattkhan]

You mentioned the following as an option:
"If you want to do bass management as well then you have 3 choices;
2) switch to a >8 channel output format (to give yourself free channels to play with) and deal with mixing down 7.1 to 5.1 yourself"

choose an output format with more channels means you'll get a 7.1 upmix for any multichannel content, you then need to decide how to mix that back down to 5.1 (e.g. sum the rear + surround and reduce by 6dB, sum the rears into mono and add to both sides) and apply that via PEQ. I'm not sure how jriver does that upmix so not sure if it's possible to perfectly back it out (for native 5 channel content)/

Also wondering how to measure with Asio using an external sound card. Is this possible? Or do I have measure with the sound card (Lynx) that I'm using for the setup?

do you mean "can I measure with 1 soundcard as the input and another as the output?" or do you mean "can I use a different audio device entirely?"

[Bjorn]

choose an output format with more channels means you'll get a 7.1 upmix for any multichannel content, you then need to decide how to mix that back down to 5.1 (e.g. sum the rear + surround and reduce by 6dB, sum the rears into mono and add to both sides) and apply that via PEQ. I'm not sure how jriver does that upmix so not sure if it's possible to perfectly back it out (for native 5 channel content)/

Ok. I need to look at that when I got time.

do you mean "can I measure with 1 soundcard as the input and another as the output?" or do you mean "can I use a different audio device entirely?"

This is set up with a Lynx sound card as you know. But I would like to measure the result/speakers with a different sound card, as the Lynx doesn't have phantom power. I have done that for a while using Java, but I would like to use Asio if possible. If it is, I'm wondering how. Hope that's understandable.

[mattkhan]

to measure through REW you

- choose your device
- set the output in REW to channels x and y
- open asio line in in jriver on channels x and y
- configure your jriver zone to output to the same device
- set the input in REW to the mic input
- measure

that's about it