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[MrKleanWitHare]

Hello all,

I'm currently running MC 21 on Linux (Ubuntu) and it is running flawlessly with my Focusrite 2i4 DAC/Audio Interface. JRiver allows me to use all 4 discrete output channels and configure them in various ways depending on the source - stereo to speakers A and clone to speakers B - or - 5.1 with FR, FC, FL, LFE to "A", RR, RL to "B," for example. I think it's time to upgrade to a full 6-8 discrete channel system.

Anyone using a 6+ channel system with a Focusrite, Presonus, RME, Steinberg, etc, DAC and getting  good results? I mention those brands because the ability to output to balanced lines is important (Yes, the signal will be traveling long distances) and because I am currently used powered speakers (monitors + sub) and do not need or want a HTS-type setup. Also the ability to use a Fireface, UR824  Clarett 8Pre, or 18i20 etc., as an audio interface for recording music as well as playing music is rather convenient.

The Focusrite DACs seem to be potential candidates that will interface well with Linux and MC - as my current one has. My concern is the ability to assign channels to each output, since I do not anticipate using anything other than ProTools as a DAW, such as whatever software Focusrite, RME or Presonus wants you to use to interface with their hardware.

8 channels is a minimum (5.1 + stereo), but 10+ would be ideal (routing cables over distances, several speaker configurations and rooms, using DLNA server). Balanced connections is an absolute must. USB or Firewire will work. Some XLR/1/4" TRS inputs is a must.

ADAT pipelight and D-Sub are plus'.

Any advice is appreciated.
*Will be running MC 23 once it is released.

Thanks. 
MK

[Hendrik]

Myself, and I believe Matt as well, use a Focusrite 18i20 and I'm happy with it, and last I heard, Matt was as well. It works quite fine with MC . You can configure the channel assignment once and then save it on the device, without any need to use their software further, I would assume the 2i4 might be similar.

[MrKleanWitHare]

Myself, and I believe Matt as well, use a Focusrite 18i20 and I'm happy with it, and last I heard, Matt was as well. It works quite fine with MC . You can configure the channel assignment once and then save it on the device, without any need to use their software further, I would assume the 2i4 might be similar.

That's great to hear, especially about the simple configuration. I was leaning towards the 18i20.. What OS are you using?

You're right; The 2i4 has a 4 channel output.

Any experiences with MOTU?

Thanks,
MK

[Hendrik]

I have used it both on Windows and Linux, although at the moment its on my Windows PC again. No experience with MOTU here.

[MrKleanWitHare]

I have used it both on Windows and Linux, although at the moment its on my Windows PC again. No experience with MOTU here.

Thanks, Hendrik. Will likely go the Focusrite-Linux route. Seems that Focusrite has better chances of interfacing well with Linux. Although I have also used an Audiobox without the use of Presonus' software pretty seamlessly.

MK

[thorsten]

Hi,

I use 2 rme fireface ux via usb with win10. They work as one ASIO device, I use 17 channel processing even with convolving 

BR,

Thorsten

[thorsten]

Oh, and running all at 96kHz without glitches 
Just make sure your buffer is high enough (2048 or 4096 samples)

My first setup was one ux and 4 additional channels via ADAT @96kHz, sending to a standalone dac.

[pschelbert]

Hi,

I use 2 rme fireface ux via usb with win10. They work as one ASIO device, I use 17 channel processing even with convolving 

BR,

Thorsten

Hi Thorsten

interresting. I have an RME UFX and think to add channels. Either a UCX or a UFX.
First i also thought going over ADAT, but if USB works better.
So you connected each of the UC to a USB-Port.

1) Is it important to which USB-output on the computer. There are several some with a separate chip.

2) In Totalmix how do the two show up?

3) Ho do the two show up in JRiver, selecting the output device?

4) Convolving: you use which convolver, JRiver built in or other (I use acourateconvolver)

Peter

[MrKleanWitHare]

Myself, and I believe Matt as well, use a Focusrite 18i20 and I'm happy with it, and last I heard, Matt was as well. It works quite fine with MC . You can configure the channel assignment once and then save it on the device, without any need to use their software further, I would assume the 2i4 might be similar.

Hi Hendrik,

I plugged in my 18i20 today. I would agree that it does indeed work well with MC. However, it does not interface with ALSA-Mixer very well. I suspect that the 1st generation 18i20's were better in this regard. My 18i20 displays as a 7.1 output device in sound settings, but there isn't much that can be done to alter its settings.

When playing files directly without any special routing, i.e., stereo file to native, stereo output there is a serious deficit in bass output. This appears to be what the last post is identifying here: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=232101

Unfortunately I have been unable to get any such control of the 18i20 at this point.

It seems strange that it would route stereo sources into 3 PCM streams by default. Perhaps this is something I would need to configure in Windows, although I am reluctant to do so because... Windows. Any advice on how to do this without using Windows to change the (BIOS-like?) 18i20 settings would be appreciated, although that may be beyond the scope of this forum.

Luckily, MC has allowed me to overcome this by directing playback to 2.1, 5.1, or any of the previous within a 7.1 container. Strangely, playing a stereo file in stereo results in the missing bass stream. This is a little less than ideal. I was hoping to simply play stereo in stereo and 5.1 in 5.1 without seemingly bizarre configurations.

Again, any advice or input is appreciated.

Thanks,
MK

[Hendrik]

I only ever used mine with MC with a fixed channel count and let MC handle all the mixing and routing, so I never ran into troubles with the ALSA mixer since I basically by-pass it.
But I do have a first generation, I can't really say what changed in the second gen.

ALSA is quite flexible though and you could setup custom devices for stereo that do the routing how you want it, instead of leaving it up to ALSA to somehow figure it out.

[MrKleanWitHare]

I only ever used mine with MC with a fixed channel count and let MC handle all the mixing and routing, so I never ran into troubles with the ALSA mixer since I basically by-pass it.
But I do have a first generation, I can't really say what changed in the second gen.

ALSA is quite flexible though and you could setup custom devices for stereo that do the routing how you want it, instead of leaving it up to ALSA to somehow figure it out.

MC does a great job at routing sound played through it. The problem is that audio played through other sources sounds terrible without any low end below 150Hz.

I think the problem with second gen 18i20's is that they have an "internal mixer" that can't be changed with the standard ALSA mixer; "Multichannel" 7.1 output appears to be the only setup permissible. Other programs such as QASmixer and PAVU did not produce any additional control. Also, the main volume control affects only the two signal paths routed via channels 1 and 2 (labeled Monitors). The other 8 outputs are not affected by the volume control knob. This was the same situation with the 2i4, which I never configured in Windows. I guess that's the price of zero latency. I may have to bite the bullet and start a Windows partition to get access to the internal mixer via "Focusrite Control."

One thing I've noticed is that when changing sample rates there is a series of two pops before the next track plays. This happened with my previous Focusrite DAC, as well as an Audiobox. Is this something that an increased buffer could help?

The interesting part of this is that somehow MediaCenter is able to control the 18i20's internal mixer, or at least work around it, but no other programs seem capable of changing the configuration. I don't understand why changing output from stereo to 2.1 in MC mitigates the problem when I'm outputting to two channels.

MK

[thorsten]

Hi Thorsten

interresting. I have an RME UFX and think to add channels. Either a UCX or a UFX.
First i also thought going over ADAT, but if USB works better.
So you connected each of the UC to a USB-Port.

1) Is it important to which USB-output on the computer. There are several some with a separate chip.

2) In Totalmix how do the two show up?

3) Ho do the two show up in JRiver, selecting the output device?

4) Convolving: you use which convolver, JRiver built in or other (I use acourateconvolver)

Peter

Hi Peter,

1) no, doesn't care.

2) the older one (serial number) is no. 1, the newer one no.2 just open an additional totalfx view as each devise is only shown in one window

3) as they run on one ASIO- driver, only as "fireface". If using the uc, channel 1-10 belongs to the older ff uc (1-8 analogue out, 9+10 spdif digital out) and 11-20 to the newer uc

4) i use the jriver convolver with routing via cfg-file. Just make shure you run the correct outputs.
To test this, I activate dsp-center - room correction and the buttons "play only this channel" or so.
Then you can check in the totalfx-window, if the dedicated output is used.

BR,

Thorsten

[mwillems]

Hi Hendrik,

I plugged in my 18i20 today. I would agree that it does indeed work well with MC. However, it does not interface with ALSA-Mixer very well. I suspect that the 1st generation 18i20's were better in this regard. My 18i20 displays as a 7.1 output device in sound settings, but there isn't much that can be done to alter its settings.

When playing files directly without any special routing, i.e., stereo file to native, stereo output there is a serious deficit in bass output. This appears to be what the last post is identifying here: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=232101

Unfortunately I have been unable to get any such control of the 18i20 at this point.

It seems strange that it would route stereo sources into 3 PCM streams by default. Perhaps this is something I would need to configure in Windows, although I am reluctant to do so because... Windows. Any advice on how to do this without using Windows to change the (BIOS-like?) 18i20 settings would be appreciated, although that may be beyond the scope of this forum.

Luckily, MC has allowed me to overcome this by directing playback to 2.1, 5.1, or any of the previous within a 7.1 container. Strangely, playing a stereo file in stereo results in the missing bass stream. This is a little less than ideal. I was hoping to simply play stereo in stereo and 5.1 in 5.1 without seemingly bizarre configurations.

Again, any advice or input is appreciated.

Thanks,
MK

What audio device are you using for output in MC?  One of the "front:" hardware devices?  Or one of the defaults?  Also is Pulse Audio anywhere on you system?

The reason MC is different from other applications is because it communicates directly through the hardware via ALSA bypassing the ALSA mixer or pulseaudio.  The issue is therefore very likely somewhere in the linux software stack, not in the device.  By default on many distros pulse-audio remixes audio as though you had a sub-woofer, and the only way to truly turn it off is to edit the config files, I've definitely had the "where's all the bass" moment several times on a fresh linux install.  If Pulse isn't installed, then I'm less sure what the fix might be.

[MrKleanWitHare]

What audio device are you using for output in MC?  One of the "front:" hardware devices?  Or one of the defaults?  Also is Pulse Audio anywhere on you system?

The reason MC is different from other applications is because it communicates directly through the hardware via ALSA bypassing the ALSA mixer or pulseaudio.  The issue is therefore very likely somewhere in the linux software stack, not in the device.  By default on many distros pulse-audio remixes audio as though you had a sub-woofer, and the only way to truly turn it off is to edit the config files, I've definitely had the "where's all the bass" moment several times on a fresh linux install.  If Pulse isn't installed, then I'm less sure what the fix might be.

Hello Hendrik,

Thanks for getting back to me.

You are correct: Pulse Audio is installed on my system. I've been outputting via Pulse [ALSA]. I recently installed Pulse Audio Volume Control to get a better picture of what's going on, but it hasn't really elucidated much. However, I've noticed that it responds to whatever configuration I select in MC. For example, if I change output to 5.1, PAVC reflects that by showing 6 channels (and the bass comes into the mix). Without and DSP in MC, only two channels are displayed in PAVC, and the bass is definitely missing.

I have tried using "front" hardware devices, but I have been using Pulse which works with the MC configuration I've been using - it plays back sound and doesn't cut out the bass, but it's definitely a funky way of getting around this problem. Neither of the two "front" options result in any sound. The "default" option results in the sans-bass sound. There are also a bunch of Dmix, dsnoop, hw, plughw, and surround settings, none of which seem to result in sound either (at least not in sound coming from the 18i20, which seems to make sense).

I think you've almost certainly nailed the source of the problem. Any recommendation on how to fix it?

I came across a post where another Linux user had to configure the various matrices and streams to include the "sub" stream in the proper mixes/matrices.. But I can't seem to figure out how they did it.

Your help is greatly appreciated. I knew I'd posted to the right forum... 

MK

[MrKleanWitHare]

What audio device are you using for output in MC?  One of the "front:" hardware devices?  Or one of the defaults?  Also is Pulse Audio anywhere on you system?

The reason MC is different from other applications is because it communicates directly through the hardware via ALSA bypassing the ALSA mixer or pulseaudio.  The issue is therefore very likely somewhere in the linux software stack, not in the device.  By default on many distros pulse-audio remixes audio as though you had a sub-woofer, and the only way to truly turn it off is to edit the config files, I've definitely had the "where's all the bass" moment several times on a fresh linux install.  If Pulse isn't installed, then I'm less sure what the fix might be.

Just wanted to add:

When I run alsamixer in the terminal and select the 18i20, there aren't any settings to adjust, as was the case with QASmixer. The clock source is the only setting that can be adjusted.

Thanks,
MK

[pschelbert]

Hi Peter,

1) no, doesn't care.

2) the older one (serial number) is no. 1, the newer one no.2 just open an additional totalfx view as each devise is only shown in one window

3) as they run on one ASIO- driver, only as "fireface". If using the uc, channel 1-10 belongs to the older ff uc (1-8 analogue out, 9+10 spdif digital out) and 11-20 to the newer uc

4) i use the jriver convolver with routing via cfg-file. Just make shure you run the correct outputs.
To test this, I activate dsp-center - room correction and the buttons "play only this channel" or so.
Then you can check in the totalfx-window, if the dedicated output is used.

BR,

Thorsten

Thanks Thorsten

Peter

[mwillems]

Hello Hendrik,

Thanks for getting back to me.

You are correct: Pulse Audio is installed on my system. I've been outputting via Pulse [ALSA]. I recently installed Pulse Audio Volume Control to get a better picture of what's going on, but it hasn't really elucidated much. However, I've noticed that it responds to whatever configuration I select in MC. For example, if I change output to 5.1, PAVC reflects that by showing 6 channels (and the bass comes into the mix). Without and DSP in MC, only two channels are displayed in PAVC, and the bass is definitely missing.

I have tried using "front" hardware devices, but I have been using Pulse which works with the MC configuration I've been using - it plays back sound and doesn't cut out the bass, but it's definitely a funky way of getting around this problem. Neither of the two "front" options result in any sound. The "default" option results in the sans-bass sound. There are also a bunch of Dmix, dsnoop, hw, plughw, and surround settings, none of which seem to result in sound either (at least not in sound coming from the 18i20, which seems to make sense).

I think you've almost certainly nailed the source of the problem. Any recommendation on how to fix it?

I came across a post where another Linux user had to configure the various matrices and streams to include the "sub" stream in the proper mixes/matrices.. But I can't seem to figure out how they did it.

Your help is greatly appreciated. I knew I'd posted to the right forum... 

MK

Have a look at your pulse config files.  On my system the relevant file is /etc/pulse/daemon.conf, but different distros may put it different places.  You're looking for any settings concerning mixing.  The settings I use are

Code: [Select]

enable-remixing = no
enable-lfe-remixing = no
lfe-crossover-freq = 0

Extra reference material:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio

[MrKleanWitHare]

Have a look at your pulse config files.  On my system the relevant file is /etc/pulse/daemon.conf, but different distros may put it different places.  You're looking for any settings concerning mixing.  The settings I use are

Code: [Select]

enable-remixing = no
enable-lfe-remixing = no
lfe-crossover-freq = 0

Extra reference material:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio

Thanks for the reply.

I've editing the config file accordingly, saved, killed pulse, checked, started. Nothing has changed either with MC or other audio sources. Still sounds like a serious LFE deficit.

I also removed pulse entirely. However, I did not get any playback from MC that way..   ? Not sure where to go from here.

MK

[MrKleanWitHare]

Thanks for the reply.

I've editing the config file accordingly, saved, killed pulse, checked, started. Nothing has changed either with MC or other audio sources. Still sounds like a serious LFE deficit.

I also removed pulse entirely. However, I did not get any playback from MC that way..   ? Not sure where to go from here.

MK

Turns out I wasn't editing the config file properly. Disabling the lfe remixing did the trick. Now if I could just get rid of those popping sounds when switching to and from files with different sample rates..

The ArchLinux reference was very helpful.

Thanks!
MK

[mwillems]

Turns out I wasn't editing the config file properly. Disabling the lfe remixing did the trick. Now if I could just get rid of those popping sounds when switching to and from files with different sample rates..

The ArchLinux reference was very helpful.

Thanks!
MK

Glad you got it fixed!  The pops on sample rate change aren't really avoidable as far as I know, but you can try fiddling with MC's "play silence" for hardware synchronization options.  Some dacs just pop on changing sample rate and there's nothing to be done about it regrettably.

[Hendrik]

Some dacs just pop on changing sample rate and there's nothing to be done about it regrettably.

Well, other then resampling, that is.

[MrKleanWitHare]

Well, other then resampling, that is.

Genius. That works indeed.

With everything upsampled to 192k there are no more pops when 'changing' between different sample rates 

Thank to you both.

MK