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[Yaobing]

-And last-but-not-least what's your idea about splitting both the Live TV buffer and Recording location ?
Does such make any sense to you - but again only for SAT->ip is the request.

On a single computer, the live TV buffer and the TV recordings should not be separate, especially when recording in JTV format.  Using the live buffer as the recording is the whole idea of JTV.

If I understand you correctly, you are actually talking about an MC client computer relative to an MC server.  Current situation with MC  is that all clients can have access to their own local tuners and network tuners (such as Sat>IP) for live viewing.  They can not be used for recording.   Recording can be done only on an MC server, or on a stand-alone computer.  In the future we may allow clients do recording using their local tuners or network tuners, under certain conditions.

[Mans]

Great day Yaobing,

Clear and you've nailed my question indeed.
Thanks for your toughts and view about the future :-)

And indeed i do run multiple MC clients which are all using the SAT>IP server.
It's just I've noticed you win time when each client handled its stream and recordings by itself instead of 'over' MC Server.

So if we could test at a certain moment 'local' recordings it would maybe make sense to have an individual checkbox if these local recording should stay local or always 'shared' by the MC server's library.
Like p.e. recordings made or instructed by the client inside the children's room -> not shared by the MC server towards other clients. Or off-course the opposite: recordings instructed by parents :-)

Another thanks for your p.o.v. and help.

Steven.

[Yaobing]

If you want a recording stay local and not shared, you can simply change that machine's library to Local Library and run it as an independent machine.  When a computer is connected as a client, it uses the server's library.  Therefore any recording, if enabled, must be shared.

[Mans]

Thanks Yaobing and indeed complete thru.

I will move over the clients towards their local library over the weekend

[Mans]

Great day Yaobing,

Please find attached a new logfile.
I've rapported a while ago some change of channels would cause MC to crash.
Such a hard crash didn't happenend to me anymore.
Except of a crash of the onboard Intel HD Iris 650 Graphics.
Just before such would happen I'm getting a red error message of MadVR into the left upper corner.
 
Fyi i'm exclusively using the Digital Devices Sat>IP set-up.

Second issue:
In the log you can notice a couple ch swaps:
-When locking into the 4th channel the image freezes.
From the Digital Devices Interface i can see the stream is still active and running.
When moving to the previous channel the switch happens, but the image STAYS frozen.
MC showes a 'play' status from it's OSD.

Now I did just discovered from looking to my desktop, the MadVR icon changes then to a 'paused' state.
When clicking on 'play' in the MadVR tool the image resumes and everything is back fine.

Third:
A couple of secs later in the log you found switching back to this 'CAZ' channel all is fine and the previous and next channels do continue to play aswell.

But then some additional channels swaps and the sound isn't started.
When switching to the previous ch again, the sound reappears.

The 2ND and 3Th issue can be reproduced on several channels but not on every case, but random happens.

I've tried to combine these issues, as I'm guessing they're related to eachoder.

Thanks for your feedback and in case i can test or help some 'build' please let me know Yaobing.

Steven.
 

[robt]

Could it be that the Intel graphics are just not powerful enough to run MadVR? I tried with a NUC (HD530) and a Kaby Lake i3 (HD630) and although both would run Red October HD (Mad VR) for a few minutes, ultimately both would crash causing symptoms like you describe.

Try dialling it down to Red October Standard and see if you have the same problems.

I was under the impression that no on board GPUs are powerful enough for ROHQ, and a seriously powerful discrete card would be needed.

[Mans]

Hi Robt,

Thanks for your input man,

I've been monitoring the On-board GPU for a while, seems to be balancing between 60 - 70%.
I'm not saying the 7i7bxx NUC with Iris 650 is a lot overpowered.
8GB of ram, 30% of average useage.
CPU around the same percentage.

Following your suggestion I'm now running SQ instead of RO HQ.
Let me monitor the situation during the next couple of days.

Thanks,

[robt]

I tried monitoring my CPU and GPU with HW Monitor and although things looked ok, it would always crash after a few minutes playback.

Interested to see if running ROS makes any difference.... keep us updated how it goes.

[Mans]

Great day,

As suggested I'm using now RO SQ instead of HQ since the last couple of days.
This seems to be helping on 2 out of 3 issues.

No more crashes or frozen images after channel a switch.
The onboard GPU inside the 7i7 NUC isn't powerfull enough to support ROHQ/MadVR at all times.

-But the audio which isn't present after a channel swap is still the case.
When the channel switches the sound stays muted and will only be active when another channel is selected.
The affected channel isn't never the same, switching to previous or next channel solves the issue.

So still trying to figure out what's causing the audio from following the video.

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

I am still trying to figure out what to do about the glitch at channel switching.

[robt]

Good to hear the crashes have stopped.

A question for you. How much has reducing ROHQ to ROS changed your video quality?

[Mans]

Hi Robt,

ROHQ gave me a more fluent image.

On standard i do notice some shuttering when watching live-tv.
Less when watching movies.

Once i discover more about the topic i let you know.

Thanks Yaobing for your further research.

[Yaobing]

Do you use 64 bit version or 32 bit version?

The reason I ask is that I would like you to test a new dll.

Please install the latest build (81) from the MC32 board.  Then download one of the following:

64-bit DLL

or

32-bit DLL

Unzip, and copy JRTelevision.dll into MC installation folder.

[robt]

Can I try this?

What are you hoping it fixes?

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing,

Thanks for your input and reaction.

I've installed this new dll:

After restarting MC (.81) i had a win10 full crash, BSOD with a notification about some non compatible video thing.
Windows rebooted automatically and now - so far so good, I've tried some 20 changes changes, random and so far the audio is constant and following the video stream.

I do notice a slower change between channels. Something like 1-2 seconds slower as before.
Has this somethong to do with the changes you've made on this updated dll ?

Thanks for your help.

[Mans]

Sorry Yaobing, i didn't noticed your question to me about which platform I'm using: But I'm using the x64 version on all 3 of my builds since JRiver introduced it :-)

Since then MC's performance went up :-)

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

Can I try this?

What are you hoping it fixes?

This patch tries to fix the issue with audio or video freeze during channel switching, like this:

But then some additional channels swaps and the sound isn't started.
When switching to the previous ch again, the sound reappears.

[Yaobing]

I do notice a slower change between channels. Something like 1-2 seconds slower as before.
Has this somethong to do with the changes you've made on this updated dll ?

I don't think the change would introduce such a large delay.

[Mans]

I will do some more testing over the weekend and report back to you.

So far so good and the audio seems to track the video when changing TV channels (OctoNet Sat>IP)
At this stage i've only updated the dll on one machine, so i can now verify the time needed to switch channels against another client.

Thanks.

[Mans]

Great day all, Yaobing,

Following the above, the issue we're the audio stream isn't started after some TV channel switching seems to be solved with the updated dll.

Even i still get the feeling the channel swap does take like a second extra now.

But another issue occured, i'm not sure how it's linked, but the same channel which had the most consequent problem with the audio is since then sometimes displayed with thick black stripes.
We're talking about 50% of the image whch gets blacked. Just one specific channel and not everytime.

Running .81 with the updated dll and ROS.

Restarting MC, rebooting the client doesn't solve thisone.

Any idea or hint ?

Another thanks !

[Yaobing]

When you used the word "client", I guess you were talking about MC as a client to Sat>IP server, not MC as a client to another MC.  If it were MC client to an MC server, channel changing is known to be slow.

Could there be a signal issue with some of those channels?

[Mans]

Great day to you Yaobing,

Thanks.

Bad reception, not the case. As when selecting the next and then immediately going back to this specific channel = perfect image = ok.
 
Thru all MC machines seems to talk directly to the Sat>IP server = best result, most stable and fastest.

'Before' i did notice 2 seconds to swap TV channels, recently I'm noticing 3-4 secs.
So my first guess was the updated dll. Still running the initial firmware on the Sat>IP server.

Update: when writing this feedback, i do remember i did changed my settings from JTV to TS.
Maybe this is causing the added delay ?
But as mentioned before I'm still noticing all recordings are in JTV format instead of TS. I've got to manually convert them to TS, by library tool, in order for ComSkip to work.

Then the only really slow moment is the initial start-up of a TV, which can take up to 10 seconds or even an time-out for the selected channel and at the end the next channel will be displayed.
Refuring to a clean start of MC.

Another thanks for your input.

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing, just for you information, as I'm trying to find what causes MC to keeps recording in JTV format instead of TS (ComSkip compatible) I've reinstalled MC onto the 'Server' and rebooted everything.

Launched a TV recording, but still no TS file ?
Do you have any idea?
I've run the set-up as TS and also checked the recording setting: TS.

I need to manually run 'covert format' in order to get ComSkip to see the file.

As I'm using a Sat>IP server i think TS is native to the stream and easier to handle/record aswell.

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

send me a log.

[Mans]

Here you go Yaobing, I've first cleared the log - started a recording for 30 secs - and stopped.

Hoping you're able to notice something.

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

Please try this DLL (64-bit) for TS recording format.

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing,

BINGO man, with the use of us DLL the TV recordings are using the TS format :-)

Some further testing like swapping channels etc is onto my scheduele for this evening :-)

I'll keep you posted sir.

[Yaobing]

All recent changes will be in an upcoming new build (84 or higher).

[Mans]

Great day to you Yaobing,

As followup on the situation where I'm noticing some issue with my Sat>IP tuners when launching 'TV' or when switching channels:

I've made several captures with WireShark and asked the technical contact from Digital Devices again to evaluate.

He's carefully as maybe pointing out the following:
The implementation of the following command which MC send towards the Sat>IP server in order to request a stream: 'fe=1&'
P.e. is it possible that the Tuner 1 (FE=1) etc is already in use at the moment ? Referring to the following request:

256 OPTIONS rtsp://xxx.xxx.x.xxx:554/?fe=1&msys=dvbs2&src=2&freg....
307 SETUP rtsp://xxx.xxx.x.xxx:554/?fe=1&msys=dvbs2&src=2&freg....
89 Reply: RTSP/1.0 404 Not Found.

257 OPTIONS rtsp://xxx.xxx.x.xxx:554/?fe=2&msys=dvbs2&src=2&freg....
308 SETUP rtsp://xxx.xxx.x.xxx:554/?fe=2&msys=dvbs2&src=2&freg....
89 Reply: RTSP/1.0 404 Not Found.

256 OPTIONS rtsp://xxx.xxx.x.xxx:554/?fe=3&msys=dvbs2&src=2&freg....
132 Reply: RTSP/1.0 200 OK.
307 SETUP rtsp://xxx.xxx.x.xxx:554/?fe=3&msys=dvbs2&src=2&freg....
209 Reply: RTSP/1.0 200 OK.

And his hint was correct, both tuners were occupied: MC Server was recording and another Client was playing a channel.
 
He also mentioned without FE the Sat>IP Server use the next free tuner.

Yaobing if i can capture, test or log something please shoot :-)

I do thank you in advance !

[Yaobing]

This is very useful.  Thanks.

[Mans]

Additional for Yaobing:
https://tvheadend.org/issues/4619
http://www.dvbviewer.tv/forum/topic/58808-cannot-connect-to-rs-using-satip/

Not sure it's helpful in any way, but at least it come up during a 'Sat>IP fe' session on Google 

[Yaobing]

When the error occurred, which channel was the MC server serving and which channel was requested?  MC would have avoided the tuner that was in used, unless the new request is the same channel as the tuner is already tuned to.

[Mans]

Yes Yaobing the request channel was the same as the recorded one.

I've made you some additional test and mailed you a couple of screenpics :-)

Thanks for your feedback.

[Yaobing]

OK.  That makes sense.  We do specify "fe=" because we try to manage tuner selection ourselves.  I am aware that the server can do it for us, but that would require me to code Sat>IP very differently from the other tuner types, which would not be a good idea.

While the server is recording a particular channel, and a client request the same channel, we use the same tuner.  Somehow we send those commands unnecessarily.  I will check it out.  In the mean time, can you capture a set of logs and send them to me?  Let the server record on a channel, then let a client request the same channel.

By the way, the duplicate entry in your pictures seems to be created because the client was requesting live channel.  The server creates a temporary jtv file to serve a client.  When the client stops playing the extra file will eventually disappear (probably not immediately though).

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing,

I'm preparing a Dropbox send as too big to include or even mail.
I did mailed you an filtered version, but not interesting I'm guessing.
So the full capture will be send over Dropbox :-)

Included will be a WireShark capture.
4 recordings and some switching to live by a client.

Thanks man.

[Yaobing]

Please include MC logs.

[Yaobing]

Can you describe the problem in more detail?  When MC server is recording on a particular tuner, what do you do on a MC client to cause a problem?  Or was it an independent instance of MC trying to tune to a channel?

[Mans]

Yes Yaobing,

Just made you a new log:

-Tuned onto ch 1: Eén.
-Started to recording this show.
-Switched during watching 'live' this channel Eén to the next channel : Canvas.
-Black no image and after some secs error message.
-Automatically the following channel was tried: VTM, then same error after some secs.
-Finally the 4th channel is switched in to and bingo the 4th channel gets a lock and image.

This is happening in 1/10 times.
Then Wireshark shows me the stream error as copied into my error post.

Thanks man.

[Mans]

Yaobing, here's also a second log when the channel has been selected but only sound is played, no image.
As long you keep the playback and even after switches to other channels the image stays black.
Only a stop and new 'watch' brings back the image.

Such issue isn't happening a lot, have seen this more recent.

Not sure it's only related to TV.
Maybe a more general video glitch ?

Log attached.

Thanks.

[Mans]

Great day Yaobing,

Hi, after sending you both logfiles, did you noticed something of interest inside ?
If you need me to trace some further things, let me know.

Goodluck and another thanks in advance.

[Yaobing]

Yes Yaobing,

Just made you a new log:

-Tuned onto ch 1: Eén.
-Started to recording this show.
-Switched during watching 'live' this channel Eén to the next channel : Canvas.
-Black no image and after some secs error message.
-Automatically the following channel was tried: VTM, then same error after some secs.
-Finally the 4th channel is switched in to and bingo the 4th channel gets a lock and image.

This is happening in 1/10 times.
Then Wireshark shows me the stream error as copied into my error post.

Thanks man.

All of these happen on a client machine?  And the tuners are directly accessible on the client?  In other words, when you watch a channel, you are accessing the tuner from the client, not via the MC server.

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing,

Yes both these logs are from the MC Client 'living'.
The instructed Recording as also the Live viewings were from the same client.

Onto the 2nd client @ 'the master bedroom' we notice the exact same issues.

All clients do use the MC Server library.
EPG, channel index, TV Recordings etc are configured on the MC Server.
At start-up the clients do connect to the MC Server.
Each client seems to receive the requested stream from the Sat>IP Server due the streampaths which are available to each device.
Confirmed to me by looking into the Sat>IP server streaming overview. As i notice the IP-adress from each client as also from the Server in case of recordings. 

Fyi the MC Server runs onto a machine at the storage and only accessible via Remote Desktop. No monitor. No playback.
A 3th client runs as audio-only mode = zone 2 or second floor audio.

Hoping my explanation does makes sense to you ?
In case of any question shoot or in case a Teamviewer session could clear things out let me know :-)

Thanks.

[Yaobing]

While I search for a solution, you can try putting the tuners in different order on different computers.  That will reduce the chance of collision.

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing, thanks.
This would mean configuring the MC clients. Something which I didn't touched at the moment. The clients gets all info from the MC server...
Please confirm.
Thanks for the help.

[Yaobing]

There are some things on clients that are specific to clients.  Tuner ordering is one of them.

[Mans]

OK will do this over the evening.
Thanks for your work and in case you've something to test don't hesitate 

[Mans]

Hi Yaobing,

I've reordered the TV Tuners since yesterdayevening no more collisions happens.
I'm guessing the 'fe' hint from DD was somewhere into the right direction.

Just a short feedback, the black screen issue do still occurears.
No ticable on both Clients used for Live TV.
In case such happens, only a stop can solve this. Changing channel or pausing don't recover the video.
The audio is always playing fine.

Then something else which I've been noticing over time:
The guide (EPG) does displays from time to time a 'green play icon' even while nothing is playing.
I've just checked both the MC Server and the Sat>IP server, while this happend.
A short log is attached, started just in order to capture this 'moment'.
I'm mailing you some screenpics, hoping all of this is somehow helpful to you.

Thanks again !

[RoderickGI]

The Green Play Icon typically means that the item was last played in MC, and still appears in Playing Now, where it will be bolded as it is still the selected item (and locked by Windows it based on my observations). It displays even if the item isn't currently playing, until Playing Now is cleared, or something else is played.

I don't recall seeing it in either the Theatre or Standard View EPG displays though, and I can't make it happen just now.

[Mans]

Great day !

Thanks RoderickGI,
Yes I'm referring to Theatre View.
The green 'playing' icon stays active from-time-to-time even the playback was stopped.
Once noticed, i did went to Standard View to check the tuner status in MC, all tuners where 'idle'.
Then checked the status of both the streams as tuners on the Sat>IP tuners, nothing opened or tuned.

I've mailed Yaobing some screenshots indicating the above.
This issue isn't something important, but maybe there's something linked with the repported issues I'm noticing when tuning Sat>IP tuners.

Sir Yaobing did you noticed something on this ?
-I can confirm the reordering of the tuner lineup, as you've suggested, has done the job.
No more collisions since then, but still noticing the missing video/image from time to time when switching channels. Then only a stop can bring back the video. Audio plays fine.
I'm guessing due the re odering a 'Watch Live' request for the same channel as the one already on Recording brings a second tuner to be used. This instead of sharing the already opened stream/tuner.

If i can be of help, test something, please let me know.

Thanks !

[Yaobing]

I am working on these things, but have not made significant progress on either.