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[Mike48]

I am trying to set up a 2.2 system with USB output to a Lynx Hilo (which can receive up to 8 channels via USB). The attachment shows my basic DSP settings, including some EQ settings for the R and L channels. The low-pass and EQ filters for the subs are off screen.

I have reordered the channels and am using Right Surround and Left Surround for the two subs. It's easy to remember (RS, LS).

I am not sure what to put in the "Output Format." I have chosen "4 channels" and "no mixing". I've also tried 5.1 with no luck.

I am not seeing output to channels 3-8. I am getting output on channels 1-2 (though I'm not sure if it's high-passed as expected). I was expecting output on channels 1-4 inclusive.

What am I missing?

[TimoBeil95]

Hello Mike,

How is your hilo routing configured? What happens if you use add, instead of copy in the parametric eq? Another solution might be, to make routing via convolution cfg with empty wav files. For the test, if the parametric eq works "alone" you could use different values for the high pass filter jist for testing purposes. Then you see if the eq works.

Regards

[Mike48]

Thanks, TimoBeil95, for the reply. I got it working (I think) by setting some options under "Room Correction." But then decided that I'd rather not use a computer in my main system, so went back to another way of accomplishing what I need.

Unfortunately, many interesting features of MC are undocumented, except for a few out-of-date Wiki entries or forum posts from many versions ago or sketchy, unhelpful help entries. This appalling lack of documentation is the biggest shortcoming of the program, something I always mention when asked about it. The developers see nothing wrong with selling a complex program with no manual.

The situation costs me a lot of time and effort when I try something out of the ordinary. I think I need to look again at alternatives.

Sorry to unload that on you -- it's a longstanding irritation on my part but nothing to do with your answer.

[JimH]

Mike,
The wiki is not badly out of date.  Most of what is said about old versions applies to new ones.

You attempted something fairly complex.  It isn't always easy.

Give it another try and you'll get help.

Jim

[Mike48]

OK, Jim, here are the questions to which I couldn't find an answer:

• What setting of "Output Format" will allow this (2.2 output) to work? I wound up with "4 channels" (but one wonders if that's right, why 2.1 isn't just called 3 channels).
• Does "reorder channels" in PEQ do what I want it to (position SL and SR as channels 3 and 4 in the USB output)?
• Does something have to be done on the "Room Correction" page to get 2.2 output? If so, what?
• Can a tone of other than 1kHz (say 50 Hz) be sent under Room Correction?  A 1 kHz tone is not helpful in trying to set up a channel with a 50 Hz LP filter!

Thanks,
Mike

[RoderickGI]

You can send tones in Room Correction? I guess if I had a calibration mic I would see that option.

Take a look at Tools > Advanced Tools > Audio Calibration > Select Tones > Play. You can select tones down to 10Hz. As you can mute channels individually, you could play any tone to just one channel/speaker.

The rest I am staying out of. 

[mattkhan]

What setting of "Output Format" will allow this (2.2 output) to work? I wound up with "4 channels" (but one wonders if that's right, why 2.1 isn't just called 3 channels).

anything with 4 or more channels, with an 8 channel device then "2 channel in a 7.1 container" is probably a good one to use

Does "reorder channels" in PEQ do what I want it to (position SL and SR as channels 3 and 4 in the USB output)?

yes

Does something have to be done on the "Room Correction" page to get 2.2 output? If so, what?

this depends on what you want to put into the .2, the reference to SL and SR makes me wonder what this means. What do you mean exactly?

Can a tone of other than 1kHz (say 50 Hz) be sent under Room Correction?  A 1 kHz tone is not helpful in trying to set up a channel with a 50 Hz LP filter!

try Tools/Advanced Tools/Audio Calibration instead

[mojave]

You can set audio output to either the ASIO (ASIO Lynx Hilo USB) or WASAPI (Lynx Hilo Speakers) audio device. If you wanted to, you could also connect the Hilo to a router and use the Dante Virtual Soundcard on the computer.

I would set Output Format to "2 channels (inside 5.1 channel container)" and use JRSS Mixing. This will properly down mix and multi-channel stuff to 2 channel if you need it to. 

On the Hilo, the analog outputs are on channels 1-4. In JRiver you need to copy channels to Center and Subwoofer. If you do copy to Surround Left and Right, then you need to reroute in the Hilo from channels 5 & 6 to channels 3 & 4.

[Mike48]

Everyone, thanks for the replies!  What was posted was helpful, though it does raise some questions.

JimH, I'll note that the variety of answers on what output format to use underscores my contention that lack of documentation is a pervasive problem.

What I'm trying to do is take the bass from each channel and route it to a corresponding sub by high-passing the main speakers and low passing the subs. That is what is people usually mean by a 2.2 system. It's just like a 2.1 system, except you keep the R and L bass separate. It should not be complicated!

So yes, I want to output 4 channels, which can be done through the Hilo ASIO output. I don't think "2 channels in a 5.1 container" would work. If that really does output > 2 channels, the JRiver people should change their terminology.

Also, I don't think I want JRSS Mixing. I asked about it years ago and was told (essentially) that it is a proprietary algorithm not explained to users. Not what I'm looking for!

So, guys, I do appreciate the answers, and if I pick among them, I just might get a working 2.2 system.

[mattkhan]

what people mean by 2.2 can be all sorts of things, best not to assume

"2 channels in a 5.1 container" means jriver will open the audio device for 6 channel output but will use a stereo mix target for jrss, if you have a stereo system then this is right thing to use if you intend to playback any multichannel content (and don't want to manually downmix). If you don't then the mix target bit is irrelevant and you just have some channels to play with.

If all you want to do is implement a crossover for each channel then you can either use PEQ (e.g. copy L to C, high pass L, low pass C, repeat for R) or convolution (e.g. generate an appropriate filter in rephase or whatever other tool you want to use, write convolver cfg file and load it up). PEQ is simpler but jriver has a relatively limited set of filters for this use, the built in is a 2nd order butterworth so you can stack them to get an LR4 but that's about it.

The room correction option is for traditional multichannel system

[mojave]

What I'm trying to do is take the bass from each channel and route it to a corresponding sub by high-passing the main speakers and low passing the subs. That is what is people usually mean by a 2.2 system. It's just like a 2.1 system, except you keep the R and L bass separate. It should not be complicated!

I've used a Hilo before. It isn't that complicated. The standard channel routing for 5.1 and 7.1 is followed by JRiver.

5.1 is as follows:
1 - Left
2 - Right
3- Center
4 - Subwoofer
5 - Left Surround
6 - Right Surround

7.1 is as follows:
1 - Left
2 - Right
3- Center
4 - Subwoofer
5 - Left Rear
6 - Right Rear
7 - Left Surround
8 - Right Surround

If you want to use 2.2 output, then you need to pick an output format that supports that many channels.

If you do select 4 channels, then JRiver using the 5.1 "template" and outputs on channels 1,2,5,6. You need to route channels 5 and 6 in the Hilo to 3 and 4. I believe you can only use ASIO output for 4 channels with the Hilo. It is just easier to use 5.1 or 7.1 for channel output because many devices won't accept 4 channels on their input.

So yes, I want to output 4 channels, which can be done through the Hilo ASIO output. I don't think "2 channels in a 5.1 container" would work. If that really does output > 2 channels, the JRiver people should change their terminology.

It outputs 6 channels, but lets one down mix to stereo. JRiver's terminology is perfect. Multi-channel devices typically accept either 2, 5.1, or 7.1 channels. Pro audio devices are a little different in that some can accept fewer channels via ASIO. It is very useful if one want a high channel count for active crossovers or bass management, but wants JRiver to keep the content as stereo prior to any DSP.

Also, I don't think I want JRSS Mixing. I asked about it years ago and was told (essentially) that it is a proprietary algorithm not explained to users. Not what I'm looking for!

You only need it if you are downmixing to stereo. For example, not all Blu-ray's have a lossless 2 channel audio output. You might want JRiver to downmix. JRSS does nothing to stereo content when one selects 2 channels in a 5.1 or 7.1 container. If one just selects 5.1 or 7.1 with JRSS, then JRSS will upmix to all the other channels unless "for stereo sources only mix to 2.1" is selected.

[Mike48]

If all you want to do is implement a crossover for each channel then you can either use PEQ (e.g. copy L to C, high pass L, low pass C, repeat for R) or convolution....  PEQ is simpler ... the built in is a 2nd order butterworth so you can stack them to get an LR4....

Yes, stacking two Butterworth filters is what I've done, which I hope is fairly clear in the original post with screen capture.

The room correction option is for traditional multichannel system.

So I don't need to use that page at all? It would be good to know that for sure.

[mattkhan]

So I don't need to use that page at all? It would be good to know that for sure.

there is no need to use Room Correction for your setup

[Mike48]

there is no need to use Room Correction for your setup

Thanks, Matt.  Much appreciated.