Topic: Trying to play on WASAPI Metronome (m2tech) device, immediately crash Windows (Read 7267 times)

michael123 · « **on:** July 22, 2017, 11:20:38 pm »

Hi

Yesterday I tried to change a device to WASAPI for my Metronome C6 DAC, which is based on OEM m2tech USB card.
There is a proprietary Windows device driver

When I hit on 'Play', computer reboots

Kernel Streaming works (although I remember it did not work smoothly before), and DirectSound also works

I have a Windows 10 Creators Update 64-bit

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2017, 07:55:30 am »

Did you try uninstalling the driver you just installed?

MC works with WASAPI without any special driver.

michael123 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2017, 07:58:17 am »

The driver is for my DAC.

I am sure JRiver works with WASAPI

I am asking if you're aware of some issues with certain hardware (specifically m2tech based) with the Windows 10 (and/or Creators Update)

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2017, 08:12:53 am »

I'm not aware, but it would not be surprising to find a bug in a driver. Uninstalling it will tell you if that is the problem.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2017, 08:27:16 am »

In MC's WASAPI options, try toggling Event Style.

michael123 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2017, 08:33:02 am »

Thanks, yes, I will.

Do you think is an issue to use Kernel Streaming? Are there any limitations (e.g. with high-resolution content)?

michael123 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2017, 10:45:02 am »

It did not help.

For some reason I did not see any .DMP files on system disk.

Was it BSOD?

For sure, computer reboots every time I am trying to play via WASAPI, but is it BSOD?

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2017, 01:45:15 pm »

Do you see a blue screen with a sad text smiley face? If so, yes, it's a BSOD.

michael123 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2017, 01:49:32 pm »

Computer reboots.. no smiley.

That's an audio pc, when I playback music, a monitor and pre/pro are off, so I thought it is a blue screen

However, it is happening very fast to be a BSOD, in under 10 sec computer is up and running again

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2017, 01:51:06 pm »

Power issues, perhaps? If your PC is just rebooting for no reason (other than trying to playback music), you might have other (serious) PC hardware problems.

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2017, 01:53:47 pm »

Or heat?

michael123 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2017, 01:56:22 pm »

When I change the output device to WASAPI and click on 'Play' ?? Heat??

michael123 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:00:11 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on August 04, 2017, 01:51:06 pm

Power issues, perhaps? If your PC is just rebooting for no reason (other than trying to playback music), you might have other (serious) PC hardware problems.

Quote

Hi

Yesterday I tried to change a device to WASAPI for my Metronome C6 DAC, which is based on OEM m2tech USB card.
There is a proprietary Windows device driver

When I hit on 'Play', computer reboots

Kernel Streaming works (although I remember it did not work smoothly before), and DirectSound also works

I have a Windows 10 Creators Update 64-bit

michael123 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:16:24 pm »

I don't know how WASAPI works, and why there is a difference between MC21 and 22 on the very same environment.
That's only you, software vendor, can answer

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:19:40 pm »

Antivirus?

michael123 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:30:29 pm »

How antivirus might be related?

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:32:00 pm »

Antivirus can cause crashes. Mysterious crashes. See the "Weird Problems" thread in my signature.

michael123 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:36:44 pm »

OK, just for you tested now.
Disabled AV

Blue Screen

SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
Metron64.Sys

michael123 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2017, 02:56:22 pm »

https://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/85343-cumulative-update-kb4020102-windows-10-v1703-build-15063-332-a-13.html

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=111231.0

But I am not going to rollback Windows to try if that helps..

I wonder where wasapi works??
It does not work for M2Tech, does not work for Emm, for Chord, for Wired4Sound, for Metronome.. Sounds like an anti-audiophile conspiracy

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2017, 03:01:46 pm »

Quote from: michael123 on August 04, 2017, 02:36:44 pm

OK, just for you tested now.
Disabled AV

Blue Screen

SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
Metron64.Sys

Disabling AV may not be enough. Uninstall to be sure. But what is Metron64.sys? Is that a driver you installed? If so, uninstall it.

michael123 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2017, 03:03:20 pm »

Uninstall the driver, throw my Metronome out of the window

How would I play the music, if I uninstall the driver?

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2017, 03:04:23 pm »

Quote from: michael123 on August 04, 2017, 02:56:22 pm

I wonder where wasapi works??
It does not work for M2Tech, does not work for Emm, for Chord, for Wired4Sound, for Metronome.. Sounds like an anti-audiophile conspiracy

It's always possible there is a problem with JRiver, but it's not something seen by the rest of the world.

michael123 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2017, 03:06:47 pm »

Maybe it is related to Windows update, but maybe JRiver can do something about that

Regarding uninstalling the driver... How will it work without the driver?

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2017, 03:10:00 pm »

Uninstall it and test with other equipment. If that works, you've found the problem and it is the driver.

michael123 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2017, 03:16:53 pm »

Jim

Google it, you will see a bunch of DACs that do not favor WASAPI anymore with JRiver

Just tested foobar2000 with WASAPI - works perfectly!

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2017, 04:12:44 pm »

There are some Win10 problems as well, having to do with buffer size. Google it.

Did you try uninstalling that driver? WASAPI doesn't require any special driver. It's part of Windows.

JimH · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2017, 04:18:26 pm »

Please post any recent discussion of JRiver WASAPI problems. I don't see them.

michael123 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 04, 2017, 11:43:55 pm »

https://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/85343-cumulative-update-kb4020102-windows-10-v1703-build-15063-332-a-13.html

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/34854-jriver-22-win10-creator-update-problem/

ferday · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2017, 12:20:47 am »

read the same thread you posted in

Quote

WARNING:
For users of HiFace EVO, I received feedback from M2Tech:

At the moment, the only way to have your Evo working with Creators Update is disabling exclusive access. Alas, this will prevent JRiver using any sampling frequency different from the one set by Windows.

m2tech is clearly aware of this issue, and it's clearly a driver issue with creators update.

michael123 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 05, 2017, 12:37:59 am »

Yes,
of cause they are aware as I myself was communicating with the founder of m2tech Marco

However it is very clear that foobar2000 still works with WASAPI, right? [I re-tested yesterday]

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** August 05, 2017, 06:40:45 am »

Yes, you have mentioned more than once that foobar works, but that doesn't mean it's JRiver's problem. The driver works sometimes and not others. Bugs are triggered by particular events.

This may be the same problem that someone else solved by reducing the buffer size.

michael123 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 05, 2017, 07:49:36 am »

Jim

After what I read, I do believe that's something Microsoft 'fixed', and by chance broke compatibility with dozen of existing hardware.
Will we wait for Microsoft to fix it back?

I will chase after m2tech to see them release a fix.
In my case it is more complex since it is a different m2tech OEM card inside, and device drivers are privately built for Metronome rather than available for download on their website.

I don't know what others - Wired4Sound, Chord, EMM - will do, however

michael123 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 05, 2017, 08:01:00 am »

Jim

Although I do struggle occasionally with JRiver, I have no intent to 'uninstall it' as you suggested to do with the Metronome.
JRiver is my main application on my home PC, now for both audio and video
I like foobar2000, but I use it mainly at work where I sit behind a monitor.

I paid for the upgrade two weeks ago, as I did already few times in the past.

I do think JRiver is the best software today in this area, far better than anything else.. i.e. Tidal, Roon - do not approach the feature-set and the quality

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #33 on:** August 06, 2017, 09:19:59 am »

Done a little research on this.

Looks like WASAPI in the Windows 10 Creators Update is pretty buggy, thanks to the USB Audio Class 2 support added. Depending on the hardware/drivers it looks like WASAPI non-exclusive might work fine, but WASAPI Exclusive Event and WASAPI Exclusive Push both trigger BSODs/crashes on the Windows 10 Creators Update. As for it not crashing in foobar2000, it looks like Peter released a new WASAPI 3.3 component in June, which lists workaround(s) for the buggy USB Audio Class 2 driver in the Windows 10 Creators Update. No specific bug examples or what he's doing to workaround the bugs is listed anywhere. Without knowing what the bugs are specifically and what can be done to workaround them, it's not very helpful to other developers (e.g. JRiver's devs). My guess it's the WASAPI buffer, have you tried changing it? You could try downgrading from the Creators Update back to the Anniversary Update or try waiting for the Fall Creators Update release next month to see if they fixed the bugs. I guess you could even try installing an Insider Preview build and see if it's any better there though personally I wouldn't recommend that knowing how buggy Insider Preview builds are.

That said, this is likely ultimately a Windows 10 Creators Update issue in addition to the hardware vendor's driver issue. It seems every time Microsoft releases a Windows 10 update they're breaking something - guess that's what you get when there's no QA team at Microsoft anymore.

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** August 06, 2017, 09:43:08 am »

Thanks for posting this. In another thread, RD James reported that a small buffer size avoided a crash in a similar situation:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111626.msg771382.html#msg771382

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #35 on:** August 06, 2017, 09:46:32 am »

If indeed using a smaller buffer worked around the crashes, that'd be great for the affected users.

I haven't been able to force a BSOD yet to test this as WASAPI is working for me, but I've got another idea or two to try first.

EDIT: No go, WASAPI still works for me. I'd try changing the device settings for WASAPI, especially buffer, to see if there's any change (e.g. no BSOD on playback).

michael123 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 21, 2017, 04:54:33 am »

Upgraded my Metronome C6 to C6+, which goes with Amanero USB and its native Windows 10 drivers, including ASIO.
Now I have PCM rates up to DXD and DSD up to DSD256 (although it looks like the driver handles some rather than the real HW)

Works as butter now

Took 2 months to send to France, and it was a 2000 euro solution

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Trying to play on WASAPI Metronome (m2tech) device, immediately crash Windows (Read 7267 times)