Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TrevorW]

Hi Guys,
I've been using my JR Id for some time now and music quality is superb - I have ID 22.0.81, MC 22.0.112, Engen 1.0.69  . . . however. . .
I have always had issues whenever I add new music (This is ripped CD's to FLAC 0 compression and I use dbpoweramp ripper and MP3TAG for tag management including adding a front cover image to each file. I leave a folder.jpg image in each <Album> folder. My media folder structure on my Synology DS411 NAS DLNA server is \\McWMedia\McWMusic\<Artist>\<Album>\<Track>.

The media generally appears in the MC library OK after an auto import or after the ID has been rebooted (I still haven't determined the minimum requirement for this) The problem is with creation of Thumbnails !!! I can see the files and view the tags including the covers if I browse the media files on the NAS.

Currently its a huge problem because I don't seem to be able to create the large proportion of my Thumbnails - I did have most of them but I was left in this situation after conducting Thumbnail rebuilds through:
1. The Tools>Options>Tree and View>Thumbnails>Build missing thumbnails option and
2. Highlighting albums in the library, right clicking then selecting Library>Update Library from tags

I see also that under Services\Reporter Thumbnails are supposedly still being built with 4% complete (307 of 8745) This hasn't moved for about 20 hours now.

Do we have a solid backgrounder on how these Thumbnails are stored/created/updated/etc??
Can I purge the existing thumbnails and start again??
What can go wrong that would cause the Thumbnail update/build process to hang as it appears to have??
When thumbnails are rebuilt/created what source is used and is this consistent for origination and rebuilds??

I'm assuming that once I get this resolved then JRemote will then function correctly (IE I get to see the album thumbnails  )

Thanks as always

[bob]

Hi Guys,
I've been using my JR Id for some time now and music quality is superb - I have ID 22.0.81, MC 22.0.112, Engen 1.0.69  . . . however. . .
I have always had issues whenever I add new music (This is ripped CD's to FLAC 0 compression and I use dbpoweramp ripper and MP3TAG for tag management including adding a front cover image to each file. I leave a folder.jpg image in each <Album> folder. My media folder structure on my Synology DS411 NAS DLNA server is \\McWMedia\McWMusic\<Artist>\<Album>\<Track>.

The media generally appears in the MC library OK after an auto import or after the ID has been rebooted (I still haven't determined the minimum requirement for this) The problem is with creation of Thumbnails !!! I can see the files and view the tags including the covers if I browse the media files on the NAS.

Currently its a huge problem because I don't seem to be able to create the large proportion of my Thumbnails - I did have most of them but I was left in this situation after conducting Thumbnail rebuilds through:
1. The Tools>Options>Tree and View>Thumbnails>Build missing thumbnails option and
2. Highlighting albums in the library, right clicking then selecting Library>Update Library from tags

I see also that under Services\Reporter Thumbnails are supposedly still being built with 4% complete (307 of 8745) This hasn't moved for about 20 hours now.

Do we have a solid backgrounder on how these Thumbnails are stored/created/updated/etc??
Can I purge the existing thumbnails and start again??
What can go wrong that would cause the Thumbnail update/build process to hang as it appears to have??
When thumbnails are rebuilt/created what source is used and is this consistent for origination and rebuilds??

I'm assuming that once I get this resolved then JRemote will then function correctly (IE I get to see the album thumbnails  )

Thanks as always

Starting with the last question first.. Yes once the thumbnail building is resolved, JRemote will work show them.

I wouldn't start an Library>Update Library from tags while the thumbnail creation is running. It's not really necessary anyway since the library is what is being changed when the thumbs are built. If you wanted to Save the images in the Tags you could use the Library>Update Tags from Library function however as you have the coverart in the folder that seems redundant. If that option is turned on in your MC settings (it's on by default I believe) you might want to turn that off since it requires rewriting of the whole .flac file.

Not sure why it's stalling for you. It could be interesting to get a log file from this.

[blgentry]

I've seen similar on other MC platforms.  I remember several instances where the thumbnail cache was corrupted.  Deleting the cache and rebuilding thumbnails resolved the problem.

Because this is an Id, I'm not sure what level of control you have to make that process possible, or not possible.  Bob will know!

Brian.

[bob]

I've seen similar on other MC platforms.  I remember several instances where the thumbnail cache was corrupted.  Deleting the cache and rebuilding thumbnails resolved the problem.

Because this is an Id, I'm not sure what level of control you have to make that process possible, or not possible.  Bob will know!

Brian.

Yup you can definitely do that from the Options menu on the Id MC.

[TrevorW]

Hi Jim,

For context I'll place your message here (have restored my post and corrected ID to Id  )

From JimH
If you set the location for cover art in MC Options, you can right click on the files, and choose Cover Art > Quick Find.  Names must match.  MC can also find them (Get from Internet).

I would not recommend setting anything other than the default level for compression on FLAC files.

Regards,

Jim Hillegass


Trevor Reply >>>>
I do appreciate that MC can find cover art but I am happy with the independent way that I do this at present, unless you are saying that the cover art tags and embeded images are not compatible with MC22 ??  If this is the case can I point MC at the root of my Album folder so as to use the folders.jpg image as the source of the thumbnail.

I'm assuming that cover art and thumbnails are two distinctly different items here albeit that MC can derive the latter from the former??

With regard to your recommendation on FLAC-0 vs FLAC-5 can you confirm that MC22 will decode each correctly. There is huge argument about the benefits of reduced compression FLAC (typically around the rendering processors ability to decompress and play). I made the decision to use FLAC years ago so that I could tag. I reduced the compression as at the time I determined that FLAC-0 was to all intents and purposed WAV, I have subsequently realized this is not the case but still not convinced that there is no audible difference. My whole collection is in FLAC-0 at present so I need to be able to manage them as such.

Can you help with the continued Thumbnail issue please, this is still unresolved as far as I'm concerned.

[TrevorW]

Hi Folks
Just seen your various posts . . OK I'll attempt clearing the Thumbnail Cache.
Can you confirm that I can refer MC to the (already) embedded cover art in the files to generate Thumbnails or should I be somehow referring to the folders.jpg in the root of the album folder ?

Thanks to one and all for your time.

[TrevorW]

Hi Bob,

Have just cleared the thumbnail cache but it seems to restart to build the thumbnails straight away. How do I turn this off . . . I've looking in options and a few other places but can't see anything.

Not sure if this was clear in my original note: My Files already have the cover art embedded in them . .  that is not an issue. I'd like to use these or the existing folders.jpg files in the root of the ..\<Albums> folder as the source for thumbnails. I don't want MC to search for thumbnails independently on the web.


In your comment
. . . .If that option is turned on in your MC settings it's on by default I believe you might want to turn that off since it requires rewriting of the whole .flac file

How do I do this please ?

Thanks again.

[bob]

MC will produce thumbnails from your existing cover art.

If your files have cover art stored in the tags, MC will make the thumbnails from that.

If the cover art is stored in a file along with the album MC will make the thumbnails from that.

If you DON'T have cover art and MC looks it up it WILL store it in the file tag (as well as in where specified in the MC options under File Location->Cover art).

If you DON'T want that new cover art saved in the tags, uncheck the box "Also store image in the File tag" under File Location->Cover art.

MC will start generating new thumbnails as you page through your library either in MC or in JRemote, if you want to force MC to build ALL of the thumbnails you can do the function "build missing thumbnails" from  "Tree and View" under Options.

[JimH]

Added to the wiki:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Thumbnails

[TrevorW]

Hi JIm and BOb,
Thanks so much for your time and patience with this, especially the recent Wiki article that you have published. That does make it clear.
I have one more point of clarity if you could oblige (This could be added to the wiki too)

I have stopped the Auto Import process and rebooted the Id. I have then started the "build missing thumbnails" task. This took an hour and I could see the progress in the bottom left corner of MC22. All good so far.

Once it had finished (about 8500 files, I also monitored this through Reports and Services) I went back to the Albums view and saw little change. IE a handful of correctly assigned thumbnails but mostly Blue 'double quaver note' thumbs. So it looks like either the cached thumbs aren't getting cached or I have misunderstood what is happening when we see that  'double quaver note' thumbnail.

Can you tell us what is happening here so I can try to see what my problem is??

NB: My media is accessed through DNLA not a network share - is this significant??

Thanks

[TrevorW]

Hi Guys,
any chance of some information about when these 'double quaver note' thumbs or icons are generated in place of media cover art thumbnails please.

Thanks

[blgentry]

Generally speaking, when you have no cover art shown, it means MC doesn't see any cover art for that song or album. You should check one or two of your albums that are missing cover art and see if you have a Folder.jpg file there.

Do you see this same thing when using Standard View with MC?  That's the normal computer interface you'd see with a monitor, mouse, and keyboard plugged in to the computer.

Brian.

[bob]

Hi JIm and Bob,
Thanks so much for your time and patience with this, especially the recent Wiki article that you have published. That does make it clear.
I have one more point of clarity if you could oblige (This could be added to the wiki too)

I have stopped the Auto Import process and rebooted the Id. I have then started the "build missing thumbnails" task. This took an hour and I could see the progress in the bottom left corner of MC22. All good so far.

Once it had finished (about 8500 files, I also monitored this through Reports and Services) I went back to the Albums view and saw little change. IE a handful of correctly assigned thumbnails but mostly Blue 'double quaver note' thumbs. So it looks like either the cached thumbs aren't getting cached or I have misunderstood what is happening when we see that  'double quaver note' thumbnail.

Can you tell us what is happening here so I can try to see what my problem is??

NB: My media is accessed through DNLA not a network share - is this significant??

Thanks

It does make a difference when the media is accessed as a DLNA server share as opposed to a network share.
The cover art in the DLNA server case is supplied by the server. If the server doesn't supply a cover art image we won't be able to make a thumb from it.
MC is pretty flexible when looking for cover art images, likely more than your NAS DLNA server.
You will have more control over things in general if you can connect to the NAS share as opposed to the NAS DLNA server.

[TrevorW]

Hi Brian (BLGentry) and Bob

Brain, not sure what you mean here. I'm running an Id with jremote to control things. But I'm reporting/discussing an issue which I'm seeing whilst viewing an MC22 session with kbd/mouse/screen connected to the Id/Intel NUC hardware.

I was going to concider seeing what advantage there would be from running an independent MC instance as a remove server, but thats down the line.

Bob, so the 'double quaver notes' are displayed when no thumbnail can be generated, either from a tag, an file image (folders.jpg), or result of external internet search ? I will investigate but nothing has changed in the setup apart from adding a few albums and the MC22 update.

I'm assuming its easy enough to switch my DLNA connection to a server share connection ? I may try this to see if ther eis any change. I can definitely see the tag content and folders.jpg files looking at the NAS through the share.

I'll come back to you with my findings

[TrevorW]

OK I have just finished playing with 'External Drive' sharing.

I do wonder how those without some sort of tech background ever manage to get a device like the Id off the ground. Its great value for money but does require a lot of reading and background to get setup as one needs.

Anyway, I have now discovered that a new feature in MC22 allowing a network share on my NAS device to be mounted through a named local directory on the Id. It would have been very useful for this new feature to have mentioned where Id local directory was to be found.

I discovered elsewhere in the Forum that the local Id 'mount' folder is created in a folde rcalled <idroot>\mnt, its obvious with hindsite and the right background but Joe Soap is going to give up way before attempting to guess what all this is about. As I say JRiver MC is cheap for what it is but more people could be brought on board if the 'getting started' and 'reference' material had more resource spent on it.

Jim and team have a great product, it would be good to see more people able to use and integrate it into their systems.

Regards

[TrevorW]

Soz, forgot to mention that that after connecting the library to the network share and conducting a manual import, all thumbnails are now displayed correctly. The only thing I can't do without the DNLA connection is perform trans-coding which is something I was going to look at to determine if I could hear a difference between FLAC-0 and WAV (IE transcode to WAV)

So my original issue is fixed. Thanks to all who took time to help

Regards